Jordanhill Jag Posted November 12 Author Report Share Posted November 12 3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Yes of course it is. That's what I said! That's the expectation for future seasons. But we don't literally write the budget for them. That's not our job. Agreed. which is why the Club Board has been tasked with developing a break-even budget for 2025-26. So the Club Board have been tasked with a Break - even budget for 25-26 but according to them 24-25 was going to be breakeven 11 Months later and its gone from Break- even to we cant pay out debts at the end of the Season So exactly why do you think they can achieve a breakeven budget for 24-25 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 12 Author Report Share Posted November 12 3 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Nb the fanbase are pretty firmly behind TFJ. Trustees maybe not. I'm not sensing a groundswell of fans against either. Notwithstanding yourself and Mr Houston. But seriously, questions should be asked. I was talking about the Club Board ref replacing - not the TJF Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted November 12 Report Share Posted November 12 I don't profess to be a financial expert however I wonder if perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way around. We got lucky once with finding a millionaire (Colin Weir) who was willing to put money into the club but found ourselves no better off for that cash injection due to the miss-management of Jlow and co. It now appears that we have been lucky enough to find someone else (McClymont) willing to put in nearly a £1m. So shouldn't we be focusing on how best to use that cash injection rather than why someone would give it to us or assuming they have a ulterior motive? If we look at that question and start with if someone gave us £1m what would you spend it on? Then I would suggest paying off debts, stadium repairs and having a cash reserve are entirely sensible If TJF or the club board were suggesting using the next £500k to throw at the playing squad as per Jlow with Caldwell and McCall then I would be really worried. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 7 hours ago, laukat said: I don't profess to be a financial expert however I wonder if perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way around. We got lucky once with finding a millionaire (Colin Weir) who was willing to put money into the club but found ourselves no better off for that cash injection due to the miss-management of Jlow and co. It now appears that we have been lucky enough to find someone else (McClymont) willing to put in nearly a £1m. So shouldn't we be focusing on how best to use that cash injection rather than why someone would give it to us or assuming they have a ulterior motive? If we look at that question and start with if someone gave us £1m what would you spend it on? Then I would suggest paying off debts, stadium repairs and having a cash reserve are entirely sensible If TJF or the club board were suggesting using the next £500k to throw at the playing squad as per Jlow with Caldwell and McCall then I would be really worried. I’ve missed the part where anyone said these guys had an ulterior motive. Where the cash £500k ( the first £500k has gone. ) is going has already been outlined, how many more people are out there willing to donate substantial funds to the club ? Not many if any I suspect. Some of the original investment has indeed gone to cover losses on the playing squad. so if we keeping spending more than our revenue what do you think will happen ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyhouston Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 1 hour ago, javeajag said: I’ve missed the part where anyone said these guys had an ulterior motive. Where the cash £500k ( the first £500k has gone. ) is going has already been outlined, how many more people are out there willing to donate substantial funds to the club ? Not many if any I suspect. Some of the original investment has indeed gone to cover losses on the playing squad. so if we keeping spending more than our revenue what do you think will happen ? this has a smash and grab all over it , anyone thinking a few guys are going to put substantial money into the club without any repercussions is simply an idiot We have players like Stanway & Diack who’d struggle to get a game in the P&D on a Saturday morning. nobody is blowing money for nothing when we don’t have an infrastructure in place throughout the club Standard of youth players coming through is woeful and ONE 1st team striker who’s past it now and a weak as piss manager on the bright side we have all the kelvinside lovies selling fxckin pins Jesus Christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 20 minutes ago, Bobbyhouston said: this has a smash and grab all over it , anyone thinking a few guys are going to put substantial money into the club without any repercussions is simply an idiot Man compares football club to jewellery store robbery in novel screenplay pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 11 hours ago, javeajag said: Accounts as of May 2023 : Raith had over £300k in cash in the Bank, Ayr increased theirs to over £200k……how much did we have ? Oh yes it goes negative this year. Not sure what your point is. Raith got a loan of nearly £500K from a related company and Ayr had over £500K of Directors loans outstanding. Otherwise, they would be negative too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 Just now, Lenziejag said: Not sure what your point is. Raith got a loan of nearly £500K from a related company and Ayr had over £500K of Directors loans outstanding. Otherwise, they would be negative too. My point is that we needed a £500k a cash injection to have less money in the bank than they have indeed to be £280k in the red and now we need another cash injection of £500k…… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very Bitter Jag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 52 minutes ago, Bobbyhouston said: this has a smash and grab all over it , anyone thinking a few guys are going to put substantial money into the club without any repercussions is simply an idiot We have players like Stanway & Diack who’d struggle to get a game in the P&D on a Saturday morning. nobody is blowing money for nothing when we don’t have an infrastructure in place throughout the club Standard of youth players coming through is woeful and ONE 1st team striker who’s past it now and a weak as piss manager on the bright side we have all the kelvinside lovies selling fxckin pins Jesus Christ Tranche 2 and Thistle pins, I love them, inject them into my veins. 💪 VBJ (Kelvinside wannabe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 10 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: for the avoidance of doubt - the current board could be replaced in a heartbeat from our Fan Base Sounds like Donald Trump saying that he could end the Russia/Ukraine war within a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 10 minutes ago, partickthedog said: Sounds like Donald Trump saying that he could end the Russia/Ukraine war within a day. When has the board of the club ever had vacancies that were hard to fill……never 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 34 minutes ago, javeajag said: When has the board of the club ever had vacancies that were hard to fill……never Are you volunteering javea? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 4 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Are you volunteering javea? 😉 For the record……no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1876 Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 Can we afford to run a men's team. Ladies team And a full time academy ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 13 Author Report Share Posted November 13 17 minutes ago, 1876 said: Can we afford to run a men's team. Ladies team And a full time academy ? The Academy is not funded by the Club - its funded by external sources - it doesn't impact on Club Finances and for the Record all other Clubs finance there Youth Academies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: The Academy is not funded by the Club - its funded by external sources - it doesn't impact on Club Finances and for the Record all other Clubs finance there Youth Academies This isn't accurate. As we explained in the Fans' Guide, the Club is now on the hook in the event that the Academy has a financial shortfall as it has effectively been brought "in-house" from season 2024-25 onwards. The model is now much more conventional and operates along similar lines to other Clubs in the division. We are fortunate that those working on Academy revenue streams have exceeded expectations, which means that the (significant) five figure sum set aside to support the Academy in 2024-25 may not be needed, but the Club is very much liable to make good the difference if the Academy incurs operating losses in any given year. This is one of the commitments that had to be made for the Academy to remain eligible for certain key sources of its funding, including various grants. ETA: and as part of the Academy model, the Club has to find a way to fund modern-apprentice contracts (roughly a six-figure sum). This is a precondition, again for certain funding sources being available to the Academy. In 2022-23 this was covered by the Academy itself, and contributed to its £200k+ losses. In 2023-24 this was covered by the Club, putting more pressure on footballing costs and increasing the structural shortfall it had to close. So it's not true to say that the Thistle Academy is cost-free, or has no impact on the Club's financial position. That was the case in the past, but it is no longer true. Equally, cutting the Academy is unlikely materially to help to close any financial gap, as it would cut-off other sources of funding to the wider Club. Edited November 13 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 3 hours ago, javeajag said: I’ve missed the part where anyone said these guys had an ulterior motive. Where the cash £500k ( the first £500k has gone. ) is going has already been outlined, how many more people are out there willing to donate substantial funds to the club ? Not many if any I suspect. Some of the original investment has indeed gone to cover losses on the playing squad. so if we keeping spending more than our revenue what do you think will happen ? I might be miss-reading your concerns and if I am feel free to correct however I think you are saying is broadly we should always only spend what we generate as income and I would tend to agree with that. However what I'm not clear on is what you would suggest we do if someone provides additional funding. Do we not touch and try to put in the bank, reject the extra money or do we factor that into our financial plan? Again I'm no financial expert however from what I can see Its been less than 2 years since Jlow resigned. There were some pretty alarming reports of how budgets were made under Jlow and I'm pretty sure that under her tenure we didn't see much maintenance done and instead money was thrown at the playing squad. So how much of our overspend in the 2 years since Jlow left can be attributed to sorting out commitments the previous board made or actions the previous board didn't take that now need to be addressed? I appreciate that reads as trying to blame the previous regime however it strikes me that if we agree the current use of investment is sensible then maybe we have sensible people in charge again which must be a better thing for the long term of the club and perhaps they have shown enough that we need to let them have a little more time to show the financial plan for club in season 25/26 that would be based on spending what we earn minus investment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 2 hours ago, javeajag said: My point is that we needed a £500k a cash injection to have less money in the bank than they have indeed to be £280k in the red and now we need another cash injection of £500k…… What are Raith and Ayr’s forecast bank position at the end of the season ? Or if they will have had any additional handout ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 13 Author Report Share Posted November 13 1 minute ago, Woodstock Jag said: This isn't accurate. As we explained in the Fans' Guide, the Club is now on the hook in the event that the Academy has a financial shortfall as it has effectively been brought "in-house" from season 2024-25 onwards. The model is now much more conventional and operates along similar lines to other Clubs in the division. We are fortunate that those working on Academy revenue streams have exceeded expectations, which means that the (significant) five figure sum set aside to support the Academy in 2024-25 may not be needed, but the Club is very much liable to make good the difference if the Academy incurs operating losses in any given year. This is one of the commitments that had to be made for the Academy to remain eligible for certain key sources of its funding, including various grants. Again the Political Response implying that the Club is funding the Academy - its not And it has to be brought in house to get the SFA Grants ( nothing more ) As for "funding shortfalls" how exactly would that happen this Season - when we cant pay existing debtors TJF response to this Financial Mess is that in future if the Cash Reserves fall below agreed limits - the Board have to send TJF a letter explaining why - and of course TJF will come up with a cover story for the Fans ( as normal ) - to explain away why it was necessary to reduce Cash Reserves below agreed limits Just like the Board have been very careful with there wording There is no intention to dilute the shareholding of the club below the 65.3% In short - TJF are trying to give the illusion that they are ensuring there are future Controls on Cash Reserves - where is in fact nothing has actually changed - the Board can also do as they please - as long as they write TJF a letter - if TJF are not going to take action when the Board are quite literally stating - we will struggle to pay our debts at the end of this Season - they will do Nada if the Future Cash Reserves drop below agreed limits The Board can also sell off more shares - it wasn't there "intention" but when the Cash Runs out- and we need Tranche 3 - then they will do what they please with TJF Support The serious question is this - there is No reason on any level why we cannot make changes in direction to reduce our debt levels - there is No reason on any level why we cannot change Board Members - and bring in more experienced people - Yet the only person who has been sacked was Alastair Creevy - who had actually run a Profitable Business & loaned the Club a Six Figure Sum when we were desperate ? The only logical explanation is that both the Board Members & TJF are happy with the cosy arrangement - as long as they can get someone to underwrite the Financial Shortfall - they will keep it going - until there is No one to give us money to offset the losses - there is No Plan B This is not about the Good of PTFC - this is about egos - politics & agendas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 13 Author Report Share Posted November 13 5 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: What are Raith and Ayr’s forecast bank position at the end of the season ? Or if they will have had any additional handout ? For the avoidance of doubt - are you suggesting that we cannot reduce the Club overhead- without cutting the Team Football Budget - and for the avoidance of doubt - I'm referring to the Football Team that plays at Firhill on a Saturday ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 21 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: What are Raith and Ayr’s forecast bank position at the end of the season ? Or if they will have had any additional handout ? You don’t know then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 Are you going to head along to the meeting on the 29th, Jordanhill Jag? I don't think you will get the answers you are looking for on here. I think you raise some credible concerns but they start to become diluted by the volume of posts you make repeating the same thing that 99% of folk on here can't answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 If the Board are now just going to write a letter to TJF as opposed to having them round for beer and sandwiches is that a sign of a cooling in the relationship between the two? For the avoidance of doubt and for the benefit of clarity, I like beer and I like sandwiches (but not tuna - yeuch). I'm not always keen on mail, unless it is a copy of the latest Thistle programme, as it can oftentimes mean bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 13 Report Share Posted November 13 56 minutes ago, laukat said: I might be miss-reading your concerns and if I am feel free to correct however I think you are saying is broadly we should always only spend what we generate as income and I would tend to agree with that. However what I'm not clear on is what you would suggest we do if someone provides additional funding. Do we not touch and try to put in the bank, reject the extra money or do we factor that into our financial plan? Again I'm no financial expert however from what I can see Its been less than 2 years since Jlow resigned. There were some pretty alarming reports of how budgets were made under Jlow and I'm pretty sure that under her tenure we didn't see much maintenance done and instead money was thrown at the playing squad. So how much of our overspend in the 2 years since Jlow left can be attributed to sorting out commitments the previous board made or actions the previous board didn't take that now need to be addressed? I appreciate that reads as trying to blame the previous regime however it strikes me that if we agree the current use of investment is sensible then maybe we have sensible people in charge again which must be a better thing for the long term of the club and perhaps they have shown enough that we need to let them have a little more time to show the financial plan for club in season 25/26 that would be based on spending what we earn minus investment? Yes ….we can’t afford to spend money we don’t have hoping somehow it will work out. That has led us to the current situation. if we have extra funds I would earmark that for our reserves, capital and infrastructure projects eg the stadium. Which leaves the bulk of revenue for the playing side. lots of clubs have tried the speculate to accumulate model and 9 times out of ten it doesn’t work. Under the previous ownership that was nearly a disaster. to be clear I’m not suggesting we reject then investment or do anything to the board simply that this £500k isn’t used to prop up the playing squad in a way that is unsustainable and the the Board are clear that we can only spend 95% of our revenue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 13 Author Report Share Posted November 13 28 minutes ago, King Kenny said: Are you going to head along to the meeting on the 29th, Jordanhill Jag? I don't think you will get the answers you are looking for on here. I think you raise some credible concerns but they start to become diluted by the volume of posts you make repeating the same thing that 99% of folk on here can't answer. Its already a done deal - it was a done deal a long while ago The Posts are for those supposedly running the Club - Forums etc are all monitored As long as the Board is backed by TJF - they can run up as much debt as they please - and sell off as many shares as they want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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