Lambies Lost Doo Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Minutes applause. I'm still cringing at the thought. Edited October 19, 2010 by Lambies Lost Doo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 How about we give Monopoly money to any Dundee fans who are out with the buckets when we go to Dens in a few weeks time. After all, that is what they have been using for the last few years... And how we laughed when opposing fans did that to us during Save the Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Anyone remember in the 80s, how we used to stand in the shed waving tenners at morton fans singing ♫we've got a job, you've no!, you've no!♫ ?....maybe time to resurrect it at dundee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatnallyjag Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 why have the SFA not acted yet, its a total kick in the teeth for any club who have their affairs in order. In England the FA have been announcing what the punishment will be before the event even happens, typical of the SFA that they still don't know what to do, shambles. there should be a set punishment of a points deduction, can't help but feel they will escape in the same way Motherwell did. If Chisholm knew that was the case in August then surely him, Dodds, and ud like to think theyd have said to the players too, were all well aware and fearful of what was surely coming since then. I have sympathy for the players and fans, but extremely little for the club itself, they have in effect cheated by poaching other teams players with money they didnt have by not paying the tax man, which i believe we all have to do by law, and would suffer heavy penalties if we didnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 And how we laughed when opposing fans did that to us during Save the Jags. Do you practice being a tit or does it just come naturally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoncordiner Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Read this on the BBC article this morning: "Prior to Calum coming along, the club was operating with an annualised deficit of over £300,000 and the only real option available was part-time football," "Attendances were barely 3,500 again, including a large number of concessions." This all sounds familiar. Although our attendances are only 2,500, but we aspire to 3,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Do you practice being a tit or does it just come naturally? This from someone who finds it funny that people are out of a job and that football fans could be losing a team they have supported for years. Did you find it funny during Save the Jags? Will you find it funny the next time we are in trouble? If you really find it funny to see any club go out of business then you need to grow up. Especially when our own club isn't that secure. P.S. I love the way you ignore debate and go straight for the personal insults. Very mature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Apparently that's their youth structure kaput. Coaches and Scouts employment terminated. Will effect around 100 kids in various age groups. According to one long time coach monies that were due them from charitable events and also from supposedly ring-fenced SFA grants have disappeared. Story here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Apparently that's their youth structure kaput. Coaches and Scouts employment terminated. Will effect around 100 kids in various age groups. According to one long time coach monies that were due them from charitable events and also from supposedly ring-fenced SFA grants have disappeared. Story here That's perhaps the saddest side to this whole story yet - it's the kids who will lose out here. Despite what Dundee FC have done with their finances in recent years, I still don't get the idea that we celebrating the demise of any football club. All clubs have fans, young and old. They are the ones that suffer most when administration and the threat of liquidation looms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colognejag Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 This story is going to happen again and again until the football authorities get their act in gear. They are theoretically in charge of the game and in charge of making it a level playing field. The German authorities have a sound set-up which all countries should follow. If you don't know, they have to provide the German FA (DFB) annual financial accounts and be in a healthy/sustainable position. If they are not, the club does not receive a DFB licence to compete the following season. Kaiserslautern found themselves in the 3rd Division as a result of this, and have had to slowly work their way up. Current leaders Dortmund have had to cut their cloth significantly recently and have not been near the top of the Bundesliga for a good few years until now. It makes all clubs follow the same financial path - investors can only do so much and cannot jeapordise the club with this system in place. I honestly don't know why this has not been copied in other countries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 That's perhaps the saddest side to this whole story yet - it's the kids who will lose out here. Despite what Dundee FC have done with their finances in recent years, I still don't get the idea that we celebrating the demise of any football club. All clubs have fans, young and old. They are the ones that suffer most when administration and the threat of liquidation looms. I'd like to think if we were in a similar position to Dundee that the general consensus amongst us fans would be let's make sure we'll still have a team to support regardless of what division we end up in. One way of surviving could be having a squad of part time seasoned pros playing alongside the youngsters. I'd imagine that would be the rationale of the less deluded Dees fans as well. Abandoning the youth structure may make immediate fiscal sense but in cutting off what could be a valuable a drip feed of youths could be so damaging to longer term survival. I feel at this juncture this is where the SFA should have a say rather than act as usual as impotent bystanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I'd like to think if we were in a similar position to Dundee that the general consensus amongst us fans would be let's make sure we'll still have a team to support regardless of what division we end up in. One way of surviving could be having a squad of part time seasoned pros playing alongside the youngsters. I'd imagine that would be the rationale of the less deluded Dees fans as well. Abandoning the youth structure may make immediate fiscal sense but in cutting off what could be a valuable a drip feed of youths could be so damaging to longer term survival. I feel at this juncture this is where the SFA should have a say rather than act as usual as impotent bystanders. TBH thats the way I see us going over the next few seasons , bring through the current youths make sure we are known as a club where youth players will get their chance and augment the squad with half a dozen or so "senior" players. Will be cheaper and I know most fans would rather see one of the "kids" being given a chance compared to some journeyman pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 This from someone who finds it funny that people are out of a job and that football fans could be losing a team they have supported for years. Did you find it funny during Save the Jags? Will you find it funny the next time we are in trouble? If you really find it funny to see any club go out of business then you need to grow up. Especially when our own club isn't that secure. P.S. I love the way you ignore debate and go straight for the personal insults. Very mature Pots and kettles. I've never read one of your posts that wasn't a barb at someone else. Dont dish it out if you can't take it back. As for finding the Dundee situation funny, that wasn't what I said. I find it funny that the fans who were giving it the 'we're a bigger club than you' bravado are being brought down to earth with a bump. I don't find it very funny that people are losing their jobs (apart from Chisholm & Dodds who were blinded by the pound signs in their eyes) I know all about redundancy right now since it's been hanging over me for the past 14 months. As I have sald on countless occasions, Dundee's situtation is nothing like our one. They have blatantly cheated to gain an unfair advantage on the rest of the league. We built a stadium to firstly comply with the Taylor report and secondly to comply with the SPL's ridiculous rule book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Pots and kettles. I've never read one of your posts that wasn't a barb at someone else. Dont dish it out if you can't take it back. As for finding the Dundee situation funny, that wasn't what I said. I find it funny that the fans who were giving it the 'we're a bigger club than you' bravado are being brought down to earth with a bump. I don't find it very funny that people are losing their jobs (apart from Chisholm & Dodds who were blinded by the pound signs in their eyes) I know all about redundancy right now since it's been hanging over me for the past 14 months. As I have sald on countless occasions, Dundee's situtation is nothing like our one. They have blatantly cheated to gain an unfair advantage on the rest of the league. We built a stadium to firstly comply with the Taylor report and secondly to comply with the SPL's ridiculous rule book. And what about the money we spent on our new hospitality suite that doesn't get used now. To be fair to Dundee they thought that someone was picking up the cheque. The fact that Melville didn't is whats caused the problem. In our case we are living out with our means with no idea how we will pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 And what about the money we spent on our new hospitality suite that doesn't get used now. To be fair to Dundee they thought that someone was picking up the cheque. The fact that Melville didn't is whats caused the problem. In our case we are living out with our means with no idea how we will pay. why??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 And what about the money we spent on our new hospitality suite that doesn't get used now. To be fair to Dundee they thought that someone was picking up the cheque. The fact that Melville didn't is whats caused the problem. In our case we are living out with our means with no idea how we will pay. But in our case we have cashed in on the little assets we had in order to try to salvage the sinking ship, Dundee did not and the benefactor not paying out is no excuse. The warning signs were there early on in Melville's reign, they (as well as every other Club) should have learnt from the Gretna situation...in fact they should have learnt from their own mistakes from 7 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 They have blatantly cheated to gain an unfair advantage on the rest of the league. I would actually disagree that they cheated. Had they got promotion to the SPL, they would have easily been able to pay off the debts. What they did was set up a business model based on a gamble. It was a valid business model, but they lost the gamble, now they have to pay the consequences. The situation with our stadium is totally different and I would argue that Inverness were bigger cheats than Dundee.They spent money on the squad rather than the stadium in full knowledge of the rules, then argued about the rules after they had won. However that is an old wound that is probably best left untouched for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Jag Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I would actually disagree that they cheated. Had they got promotion to the SPL, they would have easily been able to pay off the debts. What they did was set up a business model based on a gamble. It was a valid business model, but they lost the gamble, now they have to pay the consequences. The situation with our stadium is totally different and I would argue that Inverness were bigger cheats than Dundee.They spent money on the squad rather than the stadium in full knowledge of the rules, then argued about the rules after they had won. However that is an old wound that is probably best left untouched for now. Not paying the tax-man / neglecting N.I. contributions is cheating and not what's highlighted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incredible Adam Spark Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Not paying the tax-man... Hmmm...I wonder what would have happened to us had we not sold Harkins and Twaddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Jag Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Hmmm...I wonder what would have happened to us had we not sold Harkins and Twaddle. We would be up the same sh!t-creek minus the paddles as Dundee are in just now. Point is, we did sell them and then made arrangements / payments to keep the tax-man at bay! Also a bit ironic, that Dundee who were avoiding the tax man have money to give us for a player, with money for said player being used to get the tax-man off our back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I still don't get the idea that we celebrating the demise of any football club. Well, if it were one of the Old Firm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incredible Adam Spark Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Point is, we did sell them and then made arrangements / payments to keep the tax-man at bay! Also a bit ironic, that Dundee who were avoiding the tax man have money to give us for a player, with money for said player being used to get the tax-man off our back! Oh, I know all that and have the same elsewhere, but let's not kid ourselves that there was a grand strategy to bring in players that could be sold to cover our debt. We struck lucky, to an extent, with both of those players. Prior to that, we were just as guilty of running up debts as anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Oh, I know all that and have the same elsewhere, but let's not kid ourselves that there was a grand strategy to bring in players that could be sold to cover our debt. We struck lucky, to an extent, with both of those players. Prior to that, we were just as guilty of running up debts as anyone else. Are we tho? I can't recall any + £100k signings coming into Firhill never mind 2 in the one close season. I cant recall paying players SPL wages when they were playing in the 1st Div. I have very little sympathy for Dundee, I aint rejoicing their demise but imo it's entirely their own fault. However we have been very fortunate to have had Harkins and Twaddle to sell, and the irony of it being Dundee who gave us most of the money for us to pay the tax man is not lost on me. It could be argued that their reckless spending saved our bacon saved, but I still say fuk 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Not paying the tax-man / neglecting N.I. contributions is cheating and not what's highlighted! The point I'm trying to make is that had they got the promotion, they would have had the money to pay the tax man. It was only because they failed so spectacularly that they are in the shit. Don't get me wrong, I have little sympathy, I'm just saying that they were not cheating. They knew the rules and played by the rules and are now suffering the consequence of the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incredible Adam Spark Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Are we tho? Eh, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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