Jags Trust Announcment

[honved]

I'm glad to hear you're all still pals, Tom. Does make me wonder, though, if these were merely congenial differences among the JTB members about the future direction of the Trust, if anyone on either side - and I know this is a totally insane idea - thought about putting it to the members to decide.

 

I honestly can't remember.

 

The last time the JTB met on 25 October was an unscheduled meeting to discuss the board rep position and the current impasse with the football club. The issue at the heart of that meeting was not one that would not normally go to the public vote and the decision on the night was unanimous, but arrived at with different idealogical reasoning around the table.

 

Trying to express those idealogical differences in a way that would allow the members to decide, is something that I'm struggling to explain.

 

Maybe the three former board members have failed the Trust in simply chucking it. Alx is right in his post - it's crap for folk just to walk away because something is hard or because they are not getting their own way and I had sworn not to do it, but everyone has their limits, whether it's travelling to meetings after work or just wanting to spend half time talking about the game rather than the Trust. I've reached mine. Obviously I'm still interested - why would I be on here if I wasn't, but for me that interest needs a more positive focus.

 

i think I've said enough now.

[Dr.D]

Sorry to hear about the mini exodus from the J.T.

Was thinking it had just come to life again when "Wham, Bang" it returns to its death throws.

Appreciation for all you have contributed especially your great input into the clearout of the Club Board of Directors (Piece de resistance).

Apathy among our own support in not contesting Trust Offices is the sole cause of this current debacle. It will only be resolved by more people rising to the challenge of ousting "Peden's Babes". Maybe then some of the New Ideas may be followed through and contribute to the future prosperity of Partick Thistle as a Club of stature once more instead of the shell it is now.

[Mr Scruff]

There is a fork in the road, one branch of which is to continue onwards, constantly on the back foot, reacting to circumstances outside the control of the Trust, trying to raise numbers, trying to run events and all the while clinging tenaciously to the idea that the million shares and board rep position provide influence and status.

 

The other branch is to kick all of that away and rebuild from the ground up, with a modern perspective, PR led, smoke and mirrors, bright, shiny and evangelistic. That looks to be impossible to deliver from within the Trust, which is why I have resigned.

Will the new 'branch' be visible in time for the new fundraising required for the club's survival?

 

Watching from the outside it's hard to understand if the continual breaking of the Jags Trust is due to our fans having no appetite for supporter's representation, or just no appetite for the Jags Trust. If the latter, then the alternative should really be in place to influence the club as part of the likely forthcoming Save-The-Jags-Lite. Otherwise the focus will be all on a dead horse that's only twitching due to the severity of the flogging it's taking..

[Jaggernaut]

So, are we heading for the Democratic Jags Trust, The People's Jags Trust, The People's Democratic Jags Trust, The People's Democratic and Progressive Jags Trust, or what?

[sandy]

So, are we heading for the Democratic Jags Trust, The People's Jags Trust, The People's Democratic Jags Trust, The People's Democratic and Progressive Jags Trust, or what?

 

Splitters...

[alx]

There's only one Jags Trust, and that's the one that part-owns the club and is entitled to a place on the club board. Don't be diverted.

[Mr Scruff]

There's only one Jags Trust, and that's the one that part-owns the club and is entitled to a place on the club board. Don't be diverted.

Correct on ownership.

 

Wrong on entitlement to a board position (as I understand it).

 

And I for one would add "and is a demonstrably ineffective vehicle at facilitating change".

 

If it's broken and can't be fixed...

[Dr.D]

There must be a wealth of talent in our support just waiting expectantly for the final death throws of this now discredited Jags Trust. May I suggest that we all just ignore this body in every way until these people "GET IT" and resign. This course of action has of course already been adopted by P.T.F.C. Board to good effect. In them we do not trust!

[erty13]

There's only one Jags Trust, and that's the one that part-owns the club and is entitled to a place on the club board. Don't be diverted.

 

Alx

 

The shares are worthless, and if the trust has done its job properly it would have a legaly binding agreement for the seat on the board.

 

As no agreement exists, it has to beg for a seat from the board.

 

erty13

[McKennan]

There must be a wealth of talent in our support just waiting expectantly for the final death throws of this now discredited Jags Trust. May I suggest that we all just ignore this body in every way until these people "GET IT" and resign. This course of action has of course already been adopted by P.T.F.C. Board to good effect. In them we do not trust!

 

 

'These people' being? The more I read on this forum, the less I understand what my fellow supporters want for their trust. Shitloads of supposition aside, I hope Tom, David and Graeme will be around the Thistle body politic for a while yet. Maybe they're the kind of folk the club should co-opt.

[steelie_toes]

Aw man! I'm not on here as much as I'd like to be but I'm completely saddened (but not wholly stunned) by this news. I'm one of those who thought the JT was getting somewhere and was pleased to see some form of stability and communication emerging. But I can understand the frustrations.

 

As David says a couple of pages back, there are 3 options: 1. do nowt, 2. try to change it, or 3. rebuild. I'm never a fan of number 1, and when number 2 don't work, it's 3 all the way for me. Whether JT, work or home life, there is no pleasure taken when there's no progress. And having failed to source a brand new supply of brick walls for myself and my team at work, it's change, change, change afoot! They'd better be ready!!

 

Thanks to David, Tom and Graeme for all they have done. Appreciate it guys.

 

 

Ailsa

[Big Col]

Would a meeting not now need to be called anwyay, as we would presumably need to vote in new Board members?

 

Should the remaining board members now be contacting the Trust members shortly with an update of what now happens?

[Jaggernaut]

Aw man! I'm not on here as much as I'd like to be but I'm completely saddened (but not wholly stunned) by this news. I'm one of those who thought the JT was getting somewhere and was pleased to see some form of stability and communication emerging. But I can understand the frustrations.

 

As David says a couple of pages back, there are 3 options: 1. do nowt, 2. try to change it, or 3. rebuild. I'm never a fan of number 1, and when number 2 don't work, it's 3 all the way for me. Whether JT, work or home life, there is no pleasure taken when there's no progress. And having failed to source a brand new supply of brick walls for myself and my team at work, it's change, change, change afoot! They'd better be ready!!

 

Thanks to David, Tom and Graeme for all they have done. Appreciate it guys.

 

 

Ailsa

WOW! Steelie_Toes has posted on the main forum. This is very serious, guys.

[beep0608]

So, are we heading for the Democratic Jags Trust, The People's Jags Trust, The People's Democratic Jags Trust, The People's Democratic and Progressive Jags Trust, or what?

 

You got it. This is like something out of Life Of Brian.

 

"Are you the Judean People's Front?"

 

"F*ck off! We're the People's Front Of Judea!".

 

It's not like the 3 resigning are Dundee fans in disguise and those still on the Trust Board are....whatever else. Like union factions, and whatever else, they end up hating each other more than the real opposition. Sub-dividing, endlessly. No wonder we're going nowhere fast just now, apart from slowly but surely down.

Edited November 3, 2010 by beep0608

[yoda-jag]

When I hear people arguing that the decisions of Messrs Hughes, Cowan and Prentice to stand down might have been a mistake and we were better off as we were, then it's clear to me that we are viewing things from the opposite ends of the spectrum, and that my understanding of what supporters want and what the Club needs is vastly different. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am.

 

Wow

 

They really are completely out of touch, and their wee gang must be the only ones who think this could be the case.

 

Simply incredible viewpoint, which if I already wasn't convinced the JT is broke beyond repair, this would have had me immediately changing my mind.

[steelie_toes]

WOW! Steelie_Toes has posted on the main forum. This is very serious, guys.

 

tres funny

[GrantB]

Very sad to hear of the resignations.

 

Looks like I did well by keeping the tenner in my pocket. There is absolutely no way I would ever join the trust now unless the entire JTB resigned.

[Big Welshy]

The other branch is to kick all of that away and rebuild from the ground up, with a modern perspective, PR led, smoke and mirrors, bright, shiny and evangelistic. That looks to be impossible to deliver from within the Trust, which is why I have resigned.

 

If there are potential converts to this new way, then make yourselves known, send me a PM with your e mail, make a commitment to actually do stuff rather than talk about it and we can maybe see how it pans out.

 

Ready and willing.

[Steven H]

 

There is a fork in the road, one branch of which is to continue onwards, constantly on the back foot, reacting to circumstances outside the control of the Trust, trying to raise numbers, trying to run events and all the while clinging tenaciously to the idea that the million shares and board rep position provide influence and status.

 

The other branch is to kick all of that away and rebuild from the ground up, with a modern perspective, PR led, smoke and mirrors, bright, shiny and evangelistic. That looks to be impossible to deliver from within the Trust, which is why I have resigned.

 

If there are potential converts to this new way, then make yourselves known, send me a PM with your e mail, make a commitment to actually do stuff rather than talk about it and we can maybe see how it pans out.

 

I'd like to see one last push to try to make the Jags Trust the vehicle we want it to be, I feel we were getting really close until the resignations but we now find ourselves back to square one.

 

I would elect for the second road in your scenario Tom and feel it may just be achievable IF this vote of no confidence thing goes through and the remaining members of the Jags Trust Board resign we will have a clean slate to build on. What would then be required is people to stand up and be counted, if you think you can bring something to the table then put yourself forward and ensure those in JTB positions are put there by the supporters and not simply given the role because no-one else wanted to get involved. Ideally this would see people like Tom, David, Greame, Allan Heron, BCG Jag, Martin Towers, Willjag, Lady-Isobell-Barnet, Fellow Traveller, and others (those who have left the JTB because of similar frustrations) coming back to/to the fore and making the Jags Trust work.

 

If this does not happen before the new year then I won't be a Jags Trust member any longer. Now is the time to make a big big push for change, I feel if the areas where the Jags Trust Board could not agree was put to the membership to make the decision then we would already be seeing the changes and be well on the way to a credible and effective Trust. It can still be done if the guys who have resigned over the last 2 periods of JT incarnations are prepared to get back in there and contest the positions available (which should be every place), this would also need more fans to put themselves up for election even if they think they can't/won't win...it would prevent people being there by default if someone challenged someone else for the position.

 

Is this doable? I doubt it

Edited November 4, 2010 by Steven H

[Vom Itorium]

The Trust is a deid duck.

 

The name 'The Jags Trust' is of comedy value now and there is no way that it can be seen as credible no matter what restructuring takes place.

 

The only thing that will work now is a completely new organisation, whether it simply be called the Partick Thistle Supporters Federation or whatever it has to be something that is started from scratch, marketed in a professional manner and sold to the supporters as something that isn't some midweek biscuit club or a feminist branch of the Womens Guild.

 

It has to be tied into the club itself in a way that is visible to all fans that this is a 'partnership' for the good of the club but not just something that panders to the every whim of the BoD of PTFC.

[alx]

There probably would be people prepared to stand, last time we got a full list. Or I thought we did (was on holiday during some of it though). Let's put to bed this silly Judean People's Front splitter stuff. Where Alan Heron????? Remember, from the jags trust website:

 

"The Jags Trust is one of the major shareholders in Partick Thistle Football Club and came into existence in 1999, after the supporters of the club raised money to ensure its survival during a period of financial uncertainty. Shares were allocated to the Trust in order to provide long term involvement in the affairs of the business of the Football Club. The Trust is represented on the Board of the Football Club by an elected member serving a two year term."

 

And most important:

 

"These objectives are taken from the rules which govern the operation of the Trust. The Trust is registered as an Industrial & Provident Society with the Financial Services Authority and is controlled by its’ members on the basis of one member, one vote."

 

have we forgotten the "Industrial & Provident Society" bit. That's the mechanism that was designed for low points such as we have now.

 

 

[alx]

The Trust is a deid duck.

 

The name 'The Jags Trust' is of comedy value now and there is no way that it can be seen as credible no matter what restructuring takes place.

 

The only thing that will work now is a completely new organisation, whether it simply be called the Partick Thistle Supporters Federation or whatever it has to be something that is started from scratch, marketed in a professional manner and sold to the supporters as something that isn't some midweek biscuit club or a feminist branch of the Womens Guild.

 

It has to be tied into the club itself in a way that is visible to all fans that this is a 'partnership' for the good of the club but not just something that panders to the every whim of the BoD of PTFC.

 

I don't see why there can't be a fans rep on the club board that is a non-exec with a c.v., and the heid honcho of the Trust not being on the board and in fact being in complete opposition to the club board if necessary. Splitting sounds decidedly ropey to me.

[Allan Heron]

Where Alan Heron?????

 

I'm here

[Steven H]

The Trust is a deid duck.

 

The name 'The Jags Trust' is of comedy value now and there is no way that it can be seen as credible no matter what restructuring takes place.

 

The only thing that will work now is a completely new organisation, whether it simply be called the Partick Thistle Supporters Federation or whatever it has to be something that is started from scratch, marketed in a professional manner and sold to the supporters as something that isn't some midweek biscuit club or a feminist branch of the Womens Guild.

 

It has to be tied into the club itself in a way that is visible to all fans that this is a 'partnership' for the good of the club but not just something that panders to the every whim of the BoD of PTFC.

 

That is still achieveable under the current organisation imo, I'd drop the Jags Trust part of the name for sure, I'd like to see the suggestions of BCG Jags utilised re changes to membership, the suggestion of Lady Isobel Barnet to have a two pronged Trust Board (one relating to fundraising one relating to politics/shares/dealingas with the Club etc), the suggestion of the majority of those who took part in Ailsa's study to change the constitution so it delivers what the majority of fans want. This alongside the ideas of Tom, David, Greig, Junior etc can make the Jags Trust Partick Thistle Supporters Association one which is all inclusive and 100% effective.

[alx]

I'm here

 

 

How about a pep talk* on "Industrial & Provident Societies". It looks like everyone has forgotten why this was done (eg combating cabals) .

 

 

* maybe we should give him a 300 word limit, tee hee.