Scamps Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Thanks for the blueprint. That makes more sense than referring to the original post. ......although probably worth mentioning football in that blueprint as thats why we go in the first place! The original post was made by the exact same person and said the same thing. The football us at its best in at least 30 years, clearly it's one of the things that are working right now....I guess that's the reason for its omission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 This is precisely the problem with the game in Scotland. Football is much more than just winning games. It is a spectator sport and if the spectators are not catered for then they will stop attending. What will we have then? Games played behind closed doors for the TV? Scotty,, looks like you haven't noticed the last part of my post. I have never come across anyone who has skipped going to a game because they can't get something to eat or drink at the game. I think that if the catering is poor and Thistle don't have the resource to fix it, they would be better not providing it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 The original post was made by the exact same person and said the same thing. The football us at its best in at least 30 years, clearly it's one of the things that are working right now....I guess that's the reason for its omission. Exactly, concentrate on the areas that aren't working, but monitor the ones that are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 The Spanish TV deal is worth considerably more to their clubs than the one to ours, they get around £140 million a year for the top league, we get around £60 million over 5 years split between 42 clubs, their TV money will be alot more than fans bring in but we will be lucky to get £500K from the deal, add to that no sponsorship for the league and we need the fans money Reading some comments from Beattie a while ago, it seems that the sponsorship money is enough to run the club this season and any money from attendances will go straight to the playing budget. One of the tables put up on the papers suggested that 12th place gets 750K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Scotty,, looks like you haven't noticed the last part of my post. I have never come across anyone who has skipped going to a game because they can't get something to eat or drink at the game. I think that if the catering is poor and Thistle don't have the resource to fix it, they would be better not providing it at all. Ok made up scenario: Friday night game, live on telly, pissing with rain on a dark cold November night, were 4th bottom playing County who play boring pump football and are sitting 4th top, having to come directly from work where I've not eaten since 1pm, I can be home for 7 or at the game for 7.30, thinks oh I can get something to eat at the game to tide me over till i get in, gets in buys a couple of delicious pies and a cup of tea and watches the game or the foods crap and I can't even get a cup of tea at the game, I'll spend the £20 on an indian and a few cans and watch it in the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 £90 + VAT for hospitality next season. Although I enjoyed the one off jolly on the Season Ticket last season it ain't worth that kind of outlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Standard fare? So it's standard fare for environmental health to be completely unsatisfied with the state of the kitchens? Is it standard for hospitality to only run 4-5 times a year because the demand has become so low? If that's standard fare then count me out. This is a chicken or egg scenario. Is demand down because the standard is poorer or is the standard poorer because demand is down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 That's fantastic. No figures tho? What sort of increase in expenditure to you for see? Roughly. Is it not a bit unfair to just have a go at him ? As far as I can see, no one has quoted figures for what we could be losing, either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Ok made up scenario: Friday night game, live on telly, pissing with rain on a dark cold November night, were 4th bottom playing County who play boring pump football and are sitting 4th top, having to come directly from work where I've not eaten since 1pm, I can be home for 7 or at the game for 7.30, thinks oh I can get something to eat at the game to tide me over till i get in, gets in buys a couple of delicious pies and a cup of tea and watches the game or the foods crap and I can't even get a cup of tea at the game, I'll spend the £20 on an indian and a few cans and watch it in the house I would suggest in this scenario that you are missing the game because the weather is crap and the entertainment value is low - not because you can't get something to eat. Real situation. Evening games vs Hamilton & Airdrie last season. No time to go home before match and didn't fancy a pie and a cup of tea. There are a couple of takeout places round Firhill, so I decided to get something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Is a breakdown in figures really necessary to understand that we will be experiencing far superior levels of income as a result of playing in the SPL than SFL1? Are you denying that this will be the case? What? Of course we will see an increase in income. What sort of increase in expenditure do you forsee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I would suggest in this scenario that you are missing the game because the weather is crap and the entertainment value is low - not because you can't get something to eat. Real situation. Evening games vs Hamilton & Airdrie last season. No time to go home before match and didn't fancy a pie and a cup of tea. There are a couple of takeout places round Firhill, so I decided to get something there. Its about trying to do everything possible to keep the fans coming regardless of the weather and the results on the park, and the money they are going to spend on food, drink, sports gear should be encouraged through offering decent fair to go to the club. Say we could make 50p profit on 1000 punters every game the season, thats nearly £10K (a 6 month loan wage??) or we quite happy for that to go to jacconnellis or what ever its called these days. As a kid going with my Dad I used to look forward to a pie and a bovril on a mid week game, sometimes under the benny rooney years that may have been all that kept a young Norgethistle going, kids need to be encouraged the free places is excellent BUT we need to cater for them, the hot dogs and juice being sold last year was fit for a dog, with us having to take snacks for my 5 year old nephew and your choice of drinks restricted to cartons due to the law. People state that oh its only 90 minutes, for a bored 5 year old that hot dog can be a welcome distraction from the mundane game and a welcome rest bite for their parents, not when it as hard as a rod and as black as coal on 2 week old bread, now you also have an upset bored 5 year old The point is being missed completely for once we have a great product on the park, but the additional's (Food, communication, information, merchandising etc) are letting us down. and a good revenue stream can come from these if done correctly (Look to the 50/50 draw) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Ian you made it very clear in the post on page one of this thread that based on the admission that sporting solutions reheat food that thistle should rip up the contract. Im saying thats standard fare. I think the contract should be ripped up on the basis that they failed a hygiene inspection. Because they failed the inspection they have been forced to admit that they simply re-heat food and charge £90+vat for it. It totally sums up Sporting Solutions for me. Doing everything on the cheap to maximise their profit margins. Edited July 17, 2013 by ian_mac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I think the contract should be ripped up on the basis that they failed a hygiene inspection. Because they failed the inspection they have been forced to admit that they simply re-heat food and charge £90+vat for it. It totally sums up Sporting Soltions for me. Doing everything on the cheap to maximise their profit margins. I wholeheartedly agree. Landing us in the papers because of a failed hygiene inspection must constitute a breach of contract. If not, we must seriously question the nature of the contract. This mob have been appalling in every way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Edmonds Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Of course we will see an increase in income. What sort of increase in expenditure do you forsee? Increase in expenditure will likely come from a rise in player's wages, policing costs, and also competing in the u20s league. Certainly it won't be as much as that of say, Ross County the season before us. I do though expect the increase in income that we can anticipate to outweigh this however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Increase in expenditure will likely come from a rise in player's wages, policing costs, and also competing in the u20s league. Certainly it won't be as much as that of say, Ross County the season before us. I do though expect the increase in income that we can anticipate to outweigh this however. And imagine, the riches the club could earn, that we've haven't known for quite some time, if we had things like hospitality that was renowned for being well worth the money, a greatly enjoyable experience, which encouraged regular repeat custom, was sold out for every home game, as well as other solid income streams like replica gear that was selling in better than ever before numbers, where it wasn't poorly designed, the weekday store was easily accessible (not out of town), was competitively priced and doesn't fall apart. Imagine how much the Firhill coffers would swell with these untold riches added to our income versus our expenditure. With these two examples alone, it could add a hefty six figure sum (or profit) yearly, in region of 300-400k i estimate. A few questions regarding hospitality this coming season, while i'm here: 1) Now we are in "the big league", is hospitality running for every home game? 2) Or is it only for "the big games", that it will be offered? 3) Is there Hospitality for the opening game v Snake United? (as haven't seen anything advertising or mentioning it - it is the first game of the season, our flag day night, after all) 4) How many can Hospitality cater for? 200? More? Less? A few points regarding hospitality: 1) If it can accomodate 200 people, at average £100, and 50% of that was profit, and was sold out every home game (and that's excluding cup games), thats the best part of 200k "bonus" to the club ..... which could be added to the player budget, or go towards reducing the debt, or paying for improvements to the stadium, or improving the youth setup or under 20's, or paying the wages of new office staff, or whetever else it could benefit the club. 2) If we had a catering company that provided a better standard of fare, it would encourage businesses and the joe public partick thistle supporters to utilise the hospitality on a more regular basis. I have been to hospitality a few times over the years, but with increasing lengths of time between visits, due to its downward decline of fare. I know of a good few others who would go more regularily too if it was more value for money, or more to the point better fare and experience. A happy customer is a repeat customer, and the happier they are with what they get for their money, the more likely they are to repeat their custom on a more regular basis. Whether they are business companies looking to impress and entertain their staff or clients, or whether they are individual Jags supporters and their mates or families looking for a good day out with high end matchday experience. Repeat and regular custom ..... what a thought ..... Imagine the extra riches we could get from this. And it's not just hospitality that could be a bonus moneyspinner for the club .... going back to the replica gear, if it was better quality, better designed, it could be a higher earner than what i predict it will be, and that would equal more riches for the club. The more revenue streams we have, and which are high quality, value for money and which result in repeat custom or higher expenditure by individuals = a greater margin of income to expenditure, more untold riches for the club, and many ways these riches could be put towards improving the clubs fortunes further on and off the park. Edited July 17, 2013 by yoda-jag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I think the contract should be ripped up on the basis that they failed a hygiene inspection. Because they failed the inspection they have been forced to admit that they simply re-heat food and charge £90+vat for it. It totally sums up Sporting Solutions for me. Doing everything on the cheap to maximise their profit margins. Does Mr Beattie not have duty of care issues here regarding his customers? Or does that only kick in when we have a visit from one particular set of supporters? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Yoda - Jag, details of hospitality for the season ahead: http://ptfc.co.uk/commercial/hospitality My experience of hospitality over the last 5 or 6 seasons has always been good and last seaon's was actually the best of all, I don't know what that says about hospitality as others have said it was terrible last season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Yoda. Hospitality holds 280. Every league game will have hospitality. A full season sell out would generate £480k income from hospitality alone... For sporting solutions. We have a contract where hospitality, pie stalls and Aitken suite are outsourced. We don't see income from them on a match day... The issue is, it's far easy to sell a successful outsource contract to new companies, than it is to sell a shit one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Yoda. Hospitality holds 280. Every league game will have hospitality. A full season sell out would generate £480k income from hospitality alone... For sporting solutions. We have a contract where hospitality, pie stalls and Aitken suite are outsourced. We don't see income from them on a match day... The issue is, it's far easy to sell a successful outsource contract to new companies, than it is to sell a shit one. So we have a catering contract and merchandise contract that is fully outsourced with us being paid a 1 off fee or annual fee from the supplier. No wonder the club don't seem to give a toss regarding the quality of the product being sold to the customers, they've already been paid, not their issue, it's outsourced. But these are the same customers that if their sub suppliers piss off then they will lose, and by not listening or acting on their concerns they will accelerate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Yoda. Hospitality holds 280. Thought it was probably more than 200 capacity, but wanted to err on safe side of numbers so as not to be accused of overinflated estimate. Thanks for clarification. Every league game will have hospitality. Ok, but in link provided by FT (thanks FT, i was unaware of these listings), there is only 13 games listed (when we have 17 up to the split). Games versus Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, Inverness, Ross County are not on official site hospitality listings. A full season sell out would generate £480k income from hospitality alone... For sporting solutions. Dangleberries. That salient point, slipped my mind when i posted earlier, it did. We have a contract where hospitality, pie stalls and Aitken suite are outsourced. We don't see income from them on a match day... The issue is, it's far easy to sell a successful outsource contract to new companies, than it is to sell a shit one. True. Though are we potentially getting less income by outsourcing all, than running them ourselves? Not saying it's feasible or is definitely more financially benefical to the club to de-outsource these, but with supposedly having more experts and greater financial management and expertise than we did 5 years ago on the board, is it the easy and wrong option the board have and continued to take by outsourcing everything? So we have a catering contract and merchandise contract that is fully outsourced with us being paid a 1 off fee or annual fee from the supplier. No wonder the club don't seem to give a toss regarding the quality of the product being sold to the customers, they've already been paid, not their issue, it's outsourced. But these are the same customers that if their sub suppliers piss off then they will lose, and by not listening or acting on their concerns they will accelerate that. Sadly, accurate summary that can be applied to hospitality, pie stalls, club merchandise and aitken suite. Is outsourcing all these really the best way forward for the club? Or again, is it simply the easy lazy option because the board can't be bothered to get their hands dirty on these issues and ensure they always get what is the best for the club (bit like the rolling over to pyromaniacs at expense of thistle north standers and home advantage)? Edited July 17, 2013 by yoda-jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 On the footballing side I am happy with the effort that Archibald and his coaching staff are putting into getting our squad ready for the SPFL Premiership campaign. Most fans are realistic in that we won't be able to compete with wages with any other club in the league unless they have already used their budget for the season. Motherwell, Hibs and Aberdeen have brought in players with International experience as well as top flight experience. To be fair to the board they seem to be looking to support the manager. We have signed up a good number of our promising young squad and added three senior players to date. We are obviously looking to add to the squad with the various trialists getting game tame. Not ideal but we were not in a position to pick our targets and get them signed up in June. I think it will be nearer the end of the transfer window before we finalise our transfer dealings. The concerns with our off field commercial activities and seating arrangements have been outlined pretty well. I just had a look at the seating arrangements for season tickets. I got a ticket with a friend for the first time in years. I appreciate I will probably have to use my JHS seat for games against Celtic. However will I be able to use it in the North stand for other games? Will there now be reserved seating in the North stand for other games? The reports about the hygiene at the kiosks and in hospitality are a concern. However they are not a great surprise. The kiosk in the North stand lacks even a shelf for condiments and mossy areas of breezeblock are in use. This was the case when it was still the away section too. I also had hospitality at the cup game with the Pars and it wasn't the best. I appreciate the food is brought in by the caterers but if it is not being served and heated in hygenic surrounds that is a worry too. The uninspiring Joma range seems a missed opportunity too. I don't mind the look of the home top too much but I wouldn't part with my hard earned for any of it too be honest. I won't be buying pies or booking hospitality either at this rate. A shame really. As the title suggests, the work done by onethistle within the club to create an enjoyable match-day environment is being overshadowed by missed opportunities by the board and their outsourced catering company. I hope the team give us something to cheer this season, as there is little else to look forward to at the moment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 And imagine, the riches the club could earn, that we've haven't known for quite some time, if we had things like hospitality that was renowned for being well worth the money, a greatly enjoyable experience, which encouraged regular repeat custom, was sold out for every home game, as well as other solid income streams like replica gear that was selling in better than ever before numbers, where it wasn't poorly designed, the weekday store was easily accessible (not out of town), was competitively priced and doesn't fall apart. Imagine how much the Firhill coffers would swell with these untold riches added to our income versus our expenditure. With these two examples alone, it could add a hefty six figure sum (or profit) yearly, in region of 300-400k i estimate. A few questions regarding hospitality this coming season, while i'm here: 1) Now we are in "the big league", is hospitality running for every home game? 2) Or is it only for "the big games", that it will be offered? 3) Is there Hospitality for the opening game v Snake United? (as haven't seen anything advertising or mentioning it - it is the first game of the season, our flag day night, after all) 4) How many can Hospitality cater for? 200? More? Less? A few points regarding hospitality: 1) If it can accomodate 200 people, at average £100, and 50% of that was profit, and was sold out every home game (and that's excluding cup games), thats the best part of 200k "bonus" to the club ..... which could be added to the player budget, or go towards reducing the debt, or paying for improvements to the stadium, or improving the youth setup or under 20's, or paying the wages of new office staff, or whetever else it could benefit the club. 2) If we had a catering company that provided a better standard of fare, it would encourage businesses and the joe public partick thistle supporters to utilise the hospitality on a more regular basis. I have been to hospitality a few times over the years, but with increasing lengths of time between visits, due to its downward decline of fare. I know of a good few others who would go more regularily too if it was more value for money, or more to the point better fare and experience. A happy customer is a repeat customer, and the happier they are with what they get for their money, the more likely they are to repeat their custom on a more regular basis. Whether they are business companies looking to impress and entertain their staff or clients, or whether they are individual Jags supporters and their mates or families looking for a good day out with high end matchday experience. Repeat and regular custom ..... what a thought ..... Imagine the extra riches we could get from this. And it's not just hospitality that could be a bonus moneyspinner for the club .... going back to the replica gear, if it was better quality, better designed, it could be a higher earner than what i predict it will be, and that would equal more riches for the club. The more revenue streams we have, and which are high quality, value for money and which result in repeat custom or higher expenditure by individuals = a greater margin of income to expenditure, more untold riches for the club, and many ways these riches could be put towards improving the clubs fortunes further on and off the park. Lot of if's in there. What if,in order to bring hospitality up to a standard that would bring that level of income, we were tied into a long term deal. And what if the unthinkable happened and we got relegated. We would be screwed. And I imagine it would be the board that would get it in the neck for being so stupid to tie us in to a long term deal ! Lets get the football right first and build on the success bit by bit, instead of trying to do everything at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Lot of if's in there. What if,in order to bring hospitality up to a standard that would bring that level of income, we were tied into a long term deal. And what if the unthinkable happened and we got relegated. We would be screwed. And I imagine it would be the board that would get it in the neck for being so stupid to tie us in to a long term deal ! Lets get the football right first and build on the success bit by bit, instead of trying to do everything at once. Why would relegation screw us if we were tied into a long term contract? Why is it unthinkable that we get relegated? How long will it take to get the football right, before we can start concentrating on customer service? what if the football goes wrong again, do we put customer service by the way side until the football's fixed again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Yoda. Hospitality holds 280. Every league game will have hospitality. A full season sell out would generate £480k income from hospitality alone... For sporting solutions. We have a contract where hospitality, pie stalls and Aitken suite are outsourced. We don't see income from them on a match day... The issue is, it's far easy to sell a successful outsource contract to new companies, than it is to sell a shit one. I knew about the pie stalls but had no idea about the Aitken Suite or Hospitality. When did this come into play Dave? So if we sell out hospitality every game of the season the club doesnt get a penny - I am actually quite staggered the club agreed with this! Without going into specifi figures does the club get good revenue for sourcing these out? Is this the same for cup games as well.? Ive taken plenty of pelters from otehr posters for trying to promote the Aitken Bar - at least thinking the club was making some money but now your telling me its Sporting solutions that get the cash. Im really quite taken aback by this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Lot of if's in there. What if,in order to bring hospitality up to a standard that would bring that level of income, we were tied into a long term deal. And what if the unthinkable happened and we got relegated. We would be screwed. And I imagine it would be the board that would get it in the neck for being so stupid to tie us in to a long term deal ! Lets get the football right first and build on the success bit by bit, instead of trying to do everything at once. As the football has gotten better over the last few years the other aspects have gotten increasingly worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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