Jags V Hibs

[northernsoul]

Havent seen us in the flesh this season yet....but even from highlights and telly games..Doolan doesnt look like he can cut it....hopefully I can be proved wrong..his misses are dreadful

 

To be fair, not seeing him in flesh has clouded your above judgement. That, I can tell you.

[cjag78]

BECAUSE WE'RE UP AGAINST BIG DEFENDERS AND OUR STRIKE FORCE IS JUST NOT PHYSICALLY BIG ENOUGH !!! THE GOAL SCORING TEAMS HAVE GOT BIG FRONT MEN , ZOLA OF ABERDEEN SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF OUR DEFENCE AND WE GOT HUMPED , THATS THE TYPE OF CENTRE FORWARD WE NEED WITH THE POACHING ABILITIES OF BOYD , IT WONT BREAK THE BANK TO BRING ONE BIG DECENT SCORER IN

 

Zola is a diddy, Piccolo cost us that game.and unfortunately the lower end of the table clubs are paying there players double - treble what we are so can attract an ever so slightly better calibre.

 

It is swings and roundabouts, does the club risk an inflated wage for goals then we still concede like in previous games, or do they make do with what they have and hope Hearts Kille and St Mirren capitulate.

 

Archie picked Piccolo, his subs have been rank and like for like subs is not game changing tactics, and as far as i can see apart from Osbourne and maybe Higgy his signings have been pants and Kerr is a complete waste of a wage maybe we could have used that extra money for the striker we so desperatly need.

[David Stevenson]

BECAUSE WE'RE UP AGAINST BIG DEFENDERS AND OUR STRIKE FORCE IS JUST NOT PHYSICALLY BIG ENOUGH !!! THE GOAL SCORING TEAMS HAVE GOT BIG FRONT MEN , ZOLA OF ABERDEEN SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF OUR DEFENCE AND WE GOT HUMPED , THATS THE TYPE OF CENTRE FORWARD WE NEED WITH THE POACHING ABILITIES OF BOYD , IT WONT BREAK THE BANK TO BRING ONE BIG DECENT SCORER IN

Boyd has scored 3 goals. Zola has scored 1. Doolan has 2. I would rather have Doolz than Zola or Hibs' £200K Collins any day. How big is Billy MacKay? 5ft 7 inches and he's scored 8 goals this year. Or Kris Commons? How do they manage it against all those big defenders? Please explain. If Doolz was 5 inches taller would he have stuck that one-on-one past the Hibs keeper?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

To be fair, not seeing him in flesh has clouded your above judgement. That, I can tell you.

 

 

One reason I don't like commenting on a match I've watched on the telly is that cameras just follow the ball around. Drop Doolan for not scoring but just mind the rest of our attacking players are going to have to do even more work to compensate For instance every game he plays his dummy runs drag defenders out of position leaving opportunities for Lawless, Bannigan, Welsh etc to get behind defenders.

I'm not really being critical that others aren't scoring as I'm not criticising Doolan. I do tho' think that the way our team play goal scoring is much more of a collective responsibility.

[Chicofan]

To be fair, not seeing him in flesh has clouded your above judgement. That, I can tell you.

 

I will bow to your superior knowledge but he seems to miss a shitload from what ive seen

[peagreenboy]

We need a horrendous lump of a centre forward like Zola in our team. Aye right.

[eljaggo]

The suggestion above that we get some advice from Billy Dodds on our attacking play has some merit. Archie and Shuggy (both defenders) have sorted out the defence and midfield and created a good platform, but we need some guile in the last 1/3 to allow us to bring the ball infield from the wingbacks. Doolan should invest in a new pair of boots, I've seen him slip too many times at critical points.

[Jaggernaut]

I'll read up on others' comments later, but my tuppence worth for now: Hibs were damned lucky to steal the 3 points last night. They were outclassed for most of the match, and have their goalie to thank for getting a result.

 

Thistle played some great football, and there were no failures in the team at all. Yes, Doolan should have put away the one-on-one, but all strikers miss those sometimes, and it was excellent goalkeeping (we'd be singing Fox's praises if he'd done the same). I thought O'Donnell and Taylor-Sinclair were both impressive, and Osbourne was a stand-out; his toughness and determination will stand us in good stead during the season.

 

Now, only 2 points gained out of the last 15, with two very difficult games coming up makes you wonder whether we aren't in for some very troubling times ahead. No wins and 2 defeats from our 5 home games leads to the same worry. But somehow I don't think we need to worry. This team is too good, and the breaks in front of goal will come. Hibs got one last night. We'll get some sooner or later.

[Jaggernaut]

Few quick thoughts.

 

Higginbotham needs to be taken off corners. They are absolutely dreadful.

 

Forbes deserves a shot in the team. I'd probably play him instead of Lawless, who at the moment is not producing the goods. He was good for assisting a goal a game at Firhill last season Forbes, and his delivery could help bring around more goals hopefully.

 

Balatoni got turned too easily at the goal. Been good for the majority of games, but has made his fair share of costly errors.

 

Muirhead had his best game since we got promoted. Very commanding. SOD excellent. Was watching some of the after match highlights and everything good came through him.

 

Doolan shat it on the big chance. At least he's getting the chances though. Hopefully doesn't dent his confidence too much.

 

I don't think Balatoni can be blamed for losing the guy, who got a very lucky bobble of the ball to let him go on the run to cross.

 

For those who are slagging off Doolan, yes he should have scored, but he put in a power of work and could do with some support in and around the box. Welsh's total waste of the free-kick at the end was almost as bad, imo.

[The Cup]

The thing that pisses me off was that I doubt any other team in the league would have lost that game last night including Hearts. Hibs were almost offering us the points with their mistakes in defence.

 

A lot of the players look slow and weak. The 2nd time Doolan was through on goal yesterday the guy overtook him and knocked the ball away before Doolan could get a shot away.

If the likes of Welsh say they are good enough to play at this level then they need to show it.

[ColinKelvin]

A few observations from last night.

 

As everyone and their uncle's said - it's agonising to watch our inability to score at home. Between Doolan clean through and Elliot's shot straight at the keeper we would have produced at least one goal on your average night. Hard to see from where I was in the JHS too but on watching the BBC lowlights, Doolan slipped and fell over at Forbes's corner near the end (the one which no one made contact with). Aaaargh.

 

However, I'd still rather we played teams off the park for the most part and we're basically one player away from a great team (I am a fan of Doolan but he obv needs competition and perhaps even a strike partner in some games). Doesn't need to be a "big centre forward" - just a good one. Unfortunately we can't afford one. I'd definitely try Duggan out - you just never know.

 

I think Higginbotham tends to look dangerous - we need him to weigh in with a few.

 

Osborne was immense (easily better than Paton).

 

The atmos was also great - until about the last ten mins, for obvious reasons.

 

Lastly, I still feel positive about where we are. Last night was disappointing but the league table still isn't bad viewing. Yes, we have a run of tough games coming up, but St Mirren and Killie are still both struggling. We have a few issues to work on, but it's all relative.

[angry gaz]

That was a total kick in the Nads.

I think the shape of the team needs tweaked rather than changed . We seem to be going out wide too much for the final ball to come into a lone isolated striker often stuck between two big defenders .I would like to see higgy or elliot coming through in a more inside forward role when are attacking to support the striker better.

Good points about a forwards coach made in this thread as well.Dodds would be good or what about Gerry B short term.

The team at the moment seems set up to get the ball to a lone forward and it's not resulting in the goals the general performances deserve but the rest of the team aren't scoring either.The midfield need to be getting into the opposition box to pick up the scraps far more.

Cant remember being as dissapointed in a result after a game as that one for a long time.Hibs were woeful but at the end of the day they deserved to win because they could stick it in the pokey and we couldn't .

Really hope one of these trialists can show somthing or it's going to be a cold cold winter.

[Alan Murray]

Exasperating is one word that perfectly sums up watching this game. We can away with nothing but the 3 points were just begging to be taken.

 

Doolan should have scored and yes he was caught off side too many times but the problem does not lie solely with him. Lawless and Bannigan did not do enough for me, Higginbotham was good though. Really hope there is money in the budget to bring in players in January. Would like to see 3 or 4 brought in. Its more than just a striker we need – a attacking midfielder who can finish is also required.

 

Good to see Osbourne getting so much praise on here, what a performance. His controlled aggression in the centre of midfield really does allow other players to play. His positional sense is also very good. Tends to be in the right place at the right time.

 

The subs and the change of formation when Baird came on has to be questioned. Would like to see Forbes played through the middle in the role Bannigan played tonight when coming off the bench.

 

Sod and Aaron both had good games. Steven setting up Doolan’s header and when he was clean through - also it was his cross for Elliot’s chance. Thought he should have closed down Craig better for the goal though. He gets caught in two minds were to go and pays the price. Said this before we are guilty of not closing down players quickly enough.

 

Our corners are terrible – a lot of work required here.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Alan Murray

[watties wallies]

Craigen playing just behind Doolan might work

Always prepared to have a pop at goal and his movement off the ball is excellent

 

Doolan IMO is left alone up front the midfield and the 2 wide players have got to get more involved in the forward play

Yes I know he should have buried at least one last night

[soulful_jag]

The subs and the change of formation when Baird came on has to be questioned. Would like to see Forbes played through the middle in the role Bannigan played tonight when coming off the bench.

 

Our corners are terrible – a lot of work required here.

This for me too. Bannigan and particularly Lawless were almost passengers v Hibs, and at least with Forbes in the team that will solve the problem of terrible corners. Forbes' delivery in the 2 or 3 he took caused more problems than Higgy's had all night.

 

While nice to watch, we're generally far too pedestrian and predictable, which makes it easy for teams to defend against us. It'd be nice if we could have a good enough attacking midfielder to play through the middle and try and create something from there instead of having to always rely on SOD & ATS - but lets face it, at our level, the football we are playing is probably about as good as its going to get. I'd hoped Lawless would be that player this season, but he's struggling a bit against the better players at this level. Still think he's good enough to come good, but we're really missing the creativity he can provide right now.

 

Still can't believe that poor effort from Doolan when he was clean through. After he'd squandered that the outcome was ominous.

Edited October 8, 2013 by soulful_jag

[Mr Bunny]

We have a young team, inexperienced at this level and ditto the manager. This season is a steep learning curve. Has anybody noticed any change in our playing style in order to make the most of the chances we create? It seem to me we are simply running out week after week hoping that our luck will change.

 

"Keep playing our way and results will come."

 

I'm not so sure and I think the players confidence will be affected if we don't try something else in front of goal soon.

 

We have actually changed our style a bit - for instance going longer sometimes - but you change what isn't working. Our style is creating chances and producing football that is good to watch. Yes tweaking is required but I'd say it's more around getting one or two of our attacking midfield trio up in and around the box quicker to support Doolan when we attack. Of course we can always do with better quality players but we can't do anything about that just now.

 

Last night was sore to take - as the manager said it's worse when you play so well and get beat - but we have 10 points which is a good start and 40 is the maximum we'd probably need to avoid the play-offs. Even if we don't I'd fancy our chances against any of the teams likely to be in the play offs against us.

 

If we can keep going into the next quarter picking up another 10 points (which is less than a point a game and surely do-able) then we'll be in a good position with the window coming up when we can bring in a couple of new players to strengthen the team.

[The Arch]

The more I think about it, the more I think we actually do miss Erskine.

 

We're playing lovely football, but so much of the time our main aim seems to be getting it out to Sinclair to whip it in, especially first half.

 

We were much less predictable with Erskine. The interplay with Lawless for a start, and he allowed us to play much more around the box, rather than from the wings.

 

On another thing, I think Bannigan needs dropped. Just because he's our youth product, and in the under 21's, doesn't mean we have to play him every week. He's been pretty average for best part of a month, and with so many different midfield options, someone else deserves a shot.

[Mr Bunny]

As enjoyable as last season was with the attractive football there comes a time when we need to realise that that simply isn't going to be enough to challenge or even stay in this league. Pretty much every team has us sussed out before a ball is kicked and it's decision time for Archie wether he sticks by his philosophy or has the team roll their sleeves up and win ugly. Tonight has got to be the match when when we realise that it isn't just bad luck that costing us points. Too many of our bigger players are hiding at the minute and if things don't change soon it could be a long hard winter.

 

The way we play has gotten us 10 points and 8th position in the league. We are a team that are stronger than the sum of our parts due to playing a system that gets the best out of our players and it's a system they are well used to just now. Why would playing another system help? If we can't score goals with one we know well (and with which we have created good chances) why would we with another?

 

Sure the current system can be tweaked a bit, though I think it's more about players' mentality: we need more players get up more quickly to support Doolan. And players willing to shoot more often when they get a sight of goal. I don't want us to change the sytem (apart from tweaks to get round teams being used to us), just get the players to do what I suggested.

[Ancipital]

The more I think about it, the more I think we actually do miss Erskine.

 

We're playing lovely football, but so much of the time our main aim seems to be getting it out to Sinclair to whip it in, especially first half.

 

We were much less predictable with Erskine. The interplay with Lawless for a start, and he allowed us to play much more around the box, rather than from the wings.

 

On another thing, I think Bannigan needs dropped. Just because he's our youth product, and in the under 21's, doesn't mean we have to play him every week. He's been pretty average for best part of a month, and with so many different midfield options, someone else deserves a shot.

 

I don't think there's any doubt we miss an in form Erskine, just whether he'd be able to replicate his consistency of last year. I would have stuck a lot more money on him than Dools finishing that one on one. But he's history for now and we need to move on.

 

Higginbotham is a very good player but I think he's a bit one footed (his goal at smp aside) . Dunno whether it's worth trying him in the central attacking midfield role, that's where Falkirk fans said he was best.

 

I'd get Forbes into the team, he does offer something different, and you can normally tell after about 20 minutes whether he's worth more than an hour. His corners are generally better than anyone else's as well.

[Paddy Thistle]

Like others my view is we should be getting more midfielders up supporting Kris more, like they did last season and it was from that we scored most of the goals. We are playing some great football at times and it just needs tweating. For example at corners I don't know why Isaac Osbourne doesnt go it to into the box more , he wins the vast majority of headers and is strong and does not get bullied off the ball.

 

I'm not sure why Gary Fraser isn't getting a chance , in the first couple games of the season he was superb form, and had been scoring in the preseason matches, but since he was subbed against Motherwell he just hasn't featured and could probably give us an additional option.

 

I'd also like to know what happended to Mukendi as he just isnt featuring in either the first team squad or Under20's

 

Lets face it if we had been taking our chances we should have beaten Dundee Utd, Hearts, Kilmarnock and Hibs at home and possibly beaten St Johnstone away and drawn with Motherwell and then where would be in league and that to me is the frustrating thing we are not far off being an excellent team

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The more I think about it, the more I think we actually do miss Erskine.

 

We're playing lovely football, but so much of the time our main aim seems to be getting it out to Sinclair to whip it in, especially first half.

 

We were much less predictable with Erskine. The interplay with Lawless for a start, and he allowed us to play much more around the box, rather than from the wings.

.

 

Perhaps Higginbotham in a freer more central role? Might mean starting Elliott or Bannigan out wide.

[Fearchar]

On a slightly different note, I wonder if Archie has someone outside the coaching setup to bounce ideas off. After all, he is still inexperienced as a manager.

[Yellow & Redneck]

Well, since the dust has settled, I’d offer my two cents.

 

It was the same old story, and it just reinforces the two points I’ve made all the way through this season. Osbourne and Welsh should not start together. No disrespect to Welsh, he is a much improved player and a strong anchor and leader in the middle of the park, but having two defensive minded central midfielders do us no good in creating chances up the middle. Look at the Ross County match at the start of the season when we played Lawless, Fraser and Higgy in the midfield. We created a ton of chances through the centre of the park, and were not reduced to floating useless cross balls. At this moment, I feel Osbourne is right up there with some of the best midfielders we have had this millennia, and he should get the nod ahead of Welsh.

 

The other point is that this lone-striker nonsense is really not helping at all. It reminds me of that period when McCall played something similar. We would move the ball around well, and then be reduced to tippy-tappy football on the edge of the box. Also last night I felt Doolan had to drop too deep into the midfield to retrieve the ball. I really think we need to start with two strikers up front. Not what we did last season with Lawless just in behind, not what we did at Perth with Elliot playing wide behind Doolan, but two out and out strikers playing alongside each other.

 

Anyway, I’m sure the goals will come eventually, but with two games coming up that I don’t expect to collect any points from, we really need do need a kick up the backside. Effort, slick football and dominating games are absolutely useless unless we find the net.

[yoda-jag]

Craigen playing just behind Doolan might work

Always prepared to have a pop at goal and his movement off the ball is excellent

 

Doolan IMO is left alone up front the midfield and the 2 wide players have got to get more involved in the forward play

Yes I know he should have buried at least one last night

The more I think about it, the more I think we actually do miss Erskine.

 

We're playing lovely football, but so much of the time our main aim seems to be getting it out to Sinclair to whip it in, especially first half.

 

We were much less predictable with Erskine. The interplay with Lawless for a start, and he allowed us to play much more around the box, rather than from the wings.

 

On another thing, I think Bannigan needs dropped. Just because he's our youth product, and in the under 21's, doesn't mean we have to play him every week. He's been pretty average for best part of a month, and with so many different midfield options, someone else deserves a shot.

Like others my view is we should be getting more midfielders up supporting Kris more, like they did last season and it was from that we scored most of the goals. We are playing some great football at times and it just needs tweating. For example at corners I don't know why Isaac Osbourne doesnt go it to into the box more , he wins the vast majority of headers and is strong and does not get bullied off the ball.

 

Lets face it if we had been taking our chances we should have beaten Dundee Utd, Hearts, Kilmarnock and Hibs at home and possibly beaten St Johnstone away and drawn with Motherwell and then where would be in league and that to me is the frustrating thing we are not far off being an excellent team

 

picking out these three posts, as all make good points, as do other similar posts.

we do seem to be lacking in the zip and speed of last season, where we had players bombing forward, as well as arriving late, pulling defenders all over the place where the opposition didn't know who to mark, follow or where the ball was going to next, and this created numerous chances for strikers, midfielders and defenders alike to score, which they often did with much aplomb.

we are in a tougher league, where the players have to watch such style of play does not leave them vulnerable to swift counter attacks and being exposed if too many areup the park, so can understand to an extent why we are not seeing last seasons play being replicated. but i do feel we are not being as breakneck in speed at attacking as we were last season.

i am in agreement that we need to mix it up a bit more in terms of player selection and seek to revert to that cutting edge of last season and leaving opposition defences stretched and in dissarray. erskine is gone, but we miss his predictable unpredicatability and flair, and we need someone to step into that role (craigen?).

we also have to make our numerical advantages of stats count in our favour (look at last nights corners, shots, and on target stats, miles ahead of hibs), and remove some of our predicatability as its making it too easy for opposition teams to counter our pleasing on the eye play, but predictable end product in final third.

one instance last night, just as it looked a corner was about to be taken, doolan sprinted towards corner flag, took two defenders with him, and caused several other hibs players to move to cover their abscence. higgy dithered, moment was lost, and was another 5 or so seconds before c-k was taken. but if he had whipped it in as doolan had got near, we could have found more space in box. as i and others say, lets mix it up a bit more, get back to stretching and confusing the hell out of opposition defences, we all know these players have it in them, and then games like paddy thistle mentions will turn into wins.

[The Arch]

Perhaps Higginbotham in a freer more central role? Might mean starting Elliott or Bannigan out wide.

I've not been hugely impressed with Higginbotham tbh, but I missed the St Mirren and Aberdeen games where he was meant to be very good.

 

I do think we need to tweak the formation though, so someone's closer to Doolan, and I think he's the best option.

 

Osbourne and Welsh should not start together. No disrespect to Welsh, he is a much improved player and a strong anchor and leader in the middle of the park, but having two defensive minded central midfielders do us no good in creating chances up the middle.

I think we 100 per cent can play both of them but if you're playing two sitting midfielders, you need the other three attacking midfielders to be closer to the striker.

 

Bannigan isn't comfortable as the attacking midfielder, so that is causing problems, along with Lawless being out of form.

 

Brazil traditionally play with attacking full backs, and two holding midfielders, and they do alright. The main issue is the balance of the three in front, which at the moment, I don't think is right.

 

One issue is whether Bannigan, Welsh and Osbourne can all play as a midfield three, and I think it's too defensive. That's the issue, not whether purely Welsh and Osbourne can play in the same team, because I think they can. We just perhaps need to sacrifice one of the three for Forbes or Craigen, who are much more comfortable there.

 

Apologies for overuse of the word "issue".

Edited October 8, 2013 by The Arch