Keiththejag Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Not surprised by this at all.Shit referee who deserves the chop. Thought cheating wasn't allowed by refs?. That being said, how awful was that?.At home to one of the worst teams in the league, and they had us sussed. The bad news is, so now does everyone. When Banzo ducked out of Aberdeens free kick what message did that send out?. Thistle can be bullied, end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) I fear your points maybe falling on deaf ears, until at least we achieve a shut-out with Gabriel in the line-up. He was okay at Pitoddrie and okay yesterday despite a few jittery moments. As you said the goals conceded came from other areas and the errors from other players. With a young squad built on the smallest budget in the Premiership we are doing alright, but there are areas we can improve and I am confident Archie is addressing the issues. The main thing is the team/squad stick together. We haven't won any points solely on individual brilliance. Our successes have arrived when the team has pulled together and played to the best of their abilities, in the majority. Onwards and upwards Edited November 11, 2013 by jagfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) And yet when you watch them play, every player in the team, including Fox is happy to pass to him even when others are available. We can make up stats about what happenned in these games when he played, and what happenned in this game when he didn't... But none of the goals up at aberdeen were his fault and none of the goals on saturday were his fault. Although the cebtral defensive partnership alters, the left and right backs have been constant, regardless of the games, so should they shoulder the blame? Individual errors are happenning all over the pitch from different players. Picollo's probably at fault individually, for the same amount as Balatoni or Muirhead individually. However he gets singled out as the new boy..... Balatoni and Muirhead were great together last season, so it must be Gabby's fault. Going by the facts of goals conceded, Balatoni/Muirhead is a superior partnership and will have a comparable/good defensive record in the Premiership so far this season. I strongly believe it is a team game and very few goals should really be blamed on individuals. Therefore, partnerships that breed confidence and trust are important and should help contribute to the team playing better. I am not blaming Gabby or calling for him to be booted but rather making the point that Muirhead/Balatoni as a partnership works well and is basically conceding a goal a game - not shocking considering we are the new team with the smallest budget. Edited November 11, 2013 by mhs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottymagoo Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Alan Shearer made a comment on MOTD about Chelssea being happy to knock the ball about in front of their opponents and not doing enough to get runners beyond the defenders to give the midfield something to aim at. Made me think of Thistle.Would be nice to keep a clean sheet now and again too.Not the end of the world though, we'd have accepted where we are now at the start of the season. Can't believe some of the criticism Doolan's been getting. 5 league goals so far and he wasn't in the first 11 for first few games of the season. Edited November 11, 2013 by scottymagoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I agree that Conrad was largely at fault for two of the goals - no denying that. However, I do believe Gabby's presence saps confidence from the defence and the team in general. We just look more vulnerable and more shaky when he starts, even Fox looks less confident. The partnership of Muirhead and Balatoni has only conceded more than 1 league goal once, so far this season - against the current Champions. This partnership is also responsible for our only clean sheet in the league. The starting partnership of Gabby plus one has conceded 10 goals in only 3 league games. Granted, Gabby was not on the pitch for conceding all three goals against St Mirren but we all agree that the first goal is crucial in matches. I'm not trying to pull you up on semantics but I think the use of the word "responsible" is out of context. What I believe you're basically saying is that we're less likely to ship goals when both Muirhead and Balatoni play. That to me is fair comment. Where I feel you're being slightly disingenuous is painting a picture that everything is rosy in central defence when Gabriel doesn't play and when he does the other centreback is drawn into making errors he normally wouldn't have. Keeping a clean sheet in that game you highlight was down to excellent goalkeeping, tremendous display in holding/centre midfield and ball retention in the opposition half every bit as much as it was down to competent play in central defence. Balatoni was turned a couple of times by Goodwillie but we got away with it and Conrad certainly put in a decent display. The reason Fox has got called up for Scotland is obviously not down to clean sheets. It's because of the sheer number of quality saves he's had to make more often or not with Muirhead & Balatoni playing in front of him. No way do I want to sound like others out looking for scapegoats. Just feel that in criticising Gabriel there's no need to pretend that Aero and Conrad are so far ahead. Any nervousness in defence will be a more collective fault, which is imo quite understandable given the relative age and inexperience of the defenders and goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I didn't know how low the attendance was until this morning, I take it the North Stand was totally empty down both sides? Piss poor home support for what was an important game and a game we were more likely to win on paper than any other home fixture thus far apart from Killie. Once the 'not been to Firhill for years' novelty wears off for the rest of the teams the figures are going to start looking awful the way things are going. How many season tickets have we shifted this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted November 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Alan Shearer made a comment on MOTD about Chelssea being happy to knock the ball about in front of their opponents and not doing enough to get runners beyond the defenders to give the midfield something to aim at. Made me think of Thistle. Hahahaha. Us and Chelsea. Maybe they'll lend us Hazard in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hahahaha. Us and Chelsea. Maybe they'll lend us Hazard in January. Is Micky still there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Hahahaha. Us and Chelsea. Maybe they'll lend us Hazard in January. Perhaps get his brother Hap. Can't mind the team in question on MotD 2 but I'm sure I heard "most shots on target, least converted". Sounded familiar. Edited November 11, 2013 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm not trying to pull you up on semantics but I think the use of the word "responsible" is out of context. What I believe you're basically saying is that we're less likely to ship goals when both Muirhead and Balatoni play. That to me is fair comment. Where I feel you're being slightly disingenuous is painting a picture that everything is rosy in central defence when Gabriel doesn't play and when he does the other centreback is drawn into making errors he normally wouldn't have. Keeping a clean sheet in that game you highlight was down to excellent goalkeeping, tremendous display in holding/centre midfield and ball retention in the opposition half every bit as much as it was down to competent play in central defence. Balatoni was turned a couple of times by Goodwillie but we got away with it and Conrad certainly put in a decent display. The reason Fox has got called up for Scotland is obviously not down to clean sheets. It's because of the sheer number of quality saves he's had to make more often or not with Muirhead & Balatoni playing in front of him. No way do I want to sound like others out looking for scapegoats. Just feel that in criticising Gabriel there's no need to pretend that Aero and Conrad are so far ahead. Any nervousness in defence will be a more collective fault, which is imo quite understandable given the relative age and inexperience of the defenders and goalie. Yes you're right, responsible was a poor word to use, I wasn't meaning responsible as in they alone saved us from conceding any goals against Dundee United. They were our centre backs that day and those positions were their responsibility and we kept a clean sheet. I am not trying to imply everything is rosy with Muirhead/Balatoni but so far they have a more than acceptable league record - the team conceding a goal a game over 10 league games when Muirhead/Balatoni started. If, this is a big if, they maintain their record of conceding, on average, one goal a game then that is exceptional. Over the past four seasons, only Rangers and Celtic have conceded a goal a game or less on average by the end of the season. Yes, Balatoni and Muirhead have been largely responsible for losing some goals but that happens and, in my opinion, can be forgiven if as a partnership they perform well and the team does also. The proof is in the pudding - if Muirhead/Balatoni continue to work as a partnership, regardless of individual mistakes here or there, and we keep a reasonable defensive record - then that is fine by me. We all know the saying - there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Im just trying to give another angle on the discussion. Also, I don't think Muirhead/Balatoni partnership starting games will only concede a goal a game for the whole season but avoiding speculation and double guessing, we can work on the fact that so far they have. Centre backs hugely influence a game and a strong partnership clearly plays a part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Well, since it has been a few days, I thought I’d chime in with my two cents. Frankly, if we were still a first division team I would be fuming at having lost 3-0 to a very average mob. For all Archie is saying the right things in the pre/post match reactions, we seem to be learning very little from it in recent weeks. Saturday slightly reminded me of our attacking play under McCall when we’d have Buchanan up front. We get to the edge of the box and do one of two things: Pass it out wide for Sinclair to fire across a wasteful cross or a low drive that ends up in the keeper’s hands. Tip, tap, tip, tap from side to side, looking for a hole to thread the ball through, that inevitably never opens up as the opposition can actually defend. It is all very predictable at the moment, and when we lose that first goal, we look done and dusted. Archie’s predictable subs just aren’t changing anything. In order to rectify this I really feel we need to stop bombing our wing-backs up the wing. I’d start with McMillan over O’Donnell and let him anchor himself as a no-frills out and out defender. And for all Craigen has done well, I just don’t think he is of SPL quality yet, and would like to see an experienced guy like Forbes getting the nod. I know Forbes is not the fastest guy on the planet, but he can shoot from range and has a reasonably good delivery. Not to mention he is established at this level. There is no quick fix, but we have now been dragged into the play-off battle. Frankly we should be higher in the league, but for that to have happened we had to take maximum points early in the season against Hearts, Kille, United and even a point from Fir Park, when the opposition hadn’t sussed us out, but we blew it. Now every manager knows how we will play, and has set-up accordingly, and we just don’t have a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 mhs, I don't go in much for statistics and I think you're overlooking the point I made about Fox's call up. If he hadn't made so many outstanding saves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) mhs, I don't go in much for statistics and I think you're overlooking the point I made about Fox's call up. If he hadn't made so many outstanding saves? In all honesty, I'm surprised Fox has been called up... I will get shot down for saying this probably! He is poor at dealing with crosses and corners into the box - putting extra pressure on our defence. He has made some outstanding saves this season but what Premiership keeper hasn't? I don't think he is performing better than most keepers at our level - he is on par, in my opinion. I like Fox and I think he is a great keeper for us - hence why I haven't brought him into my points regarding the defence and goals conceded. We will not get a better keeper than Fox for our wages. Edited to add... regarding the nervousness in defence being a collective fault - I think the centre backs and keeper have the biggest influence over this, so a strong, trusting centre back partnership is crucial for us. We have the keeper and I think we have the centre back partnership in Balatoni/Muirhead. Gabby hinders this, in my opinion. Edited November 11, 2013 by mhs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Even some way into last season some people were referring to Balatoni as a bombscare. For most of the last year he has been great. Piccolo might also improve markedly with more experience. The problem is that playing against lower-league forwards isn't what he needs; it's games at this level. A dilemma for Archie and Shaggy, but Gabby is our main back-up right now. Oh, and he wasn't directly at fault for any of the last 6 goals we've shipped; others were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted November 11, 2013 Members Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Can't mind the team in question on MotD 2 but I'm sure I heard "most shots on target, least converted". Sounded familiar. It was Spurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm a huge Jimmy C fan and probably biased but I don't think he has done anything that merits being singled out by multiple people on this forum. There are a lot of other players who have not performed to a much more noticeable extent than Craigen in my opinion. Higginbotham has been our best attacking player by miles recently, I'd have Craigen down as our second best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm a huge Jimmy C fan and probably biased but I don't think he has done anything that merits being singled out by multiple people on this forum. There are a lot of other players who have not performed to a much more noticeable extent than Craigen in my opinion. Higginbotham has been our best attacking player by miles recently, I'd have Craigen down as our second best. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm a huge Jimmy C fan and probably biased but I don't think he has done anything that merits being singled out by multiple people on this forum. There are a lot of other players who have not performed to a much more noticeable extent than Craigen in my opinion. Higginbotham has been our best attacking player by miles recently, I'd have Craigen down as our second best. Likewise, as i said earlier, there are people in the squad who are performing out their skin to get a move to a bigger club... Higgy, Osbourne, Taylor-Sinclair and Craigan this season. i can't fault them for it and just enjoy what they are giving us every week, for as long as it lasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I Craigen, smashing player!! Very intelligent player!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 It was Spurs. 9 goals from 73 efforts on target. Tim Krul saved 14 of those yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Conrad header straight to saint mirren player allowed them to break for second goal - he gave the ball away - he was at fault for all three goals - muirhead for both goals against Celtic - Archie knows we are all over the place at the back with our central defenders - amazing that Conrad leaks three goals and we blame gabby - dont get me wrong he was poor but Conrad was dreadful and seems get away with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Conrad header straight to saint mirren player allowed them to break for second goal - he gave the ball away - he was at fault for all three goals - muirhead for both goals against Celtic - Archie knows we are all over the place at the back with our central defenders - amazing that Conrad leaks three goals and we blame gabby - dont get me wrong he was poor but Conrad was dreadful and seems get away with it. Totally agree, all players have bad days, we have a young team and should be trying to encourage them especially the new heads, the slatting of Gabby as soon as his name was read out was a joke, give him a break, give him a a chance and he could come good, aparently a certain Mr Hansen was crap when he 1st came into the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistlenowthistleforever Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Looking at the table tonight it's very alarming if St Mirren and County win there next 2 and we don't both will be above us plus they have games in hand. Our next four games are massive we play Dundee Utd Aberdeen(Scottish Cup) Hibs then St Johnstone If we continue our form then we are in for a horrible time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted November 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 If both St Mirren and County win their next two games it'll be one hell of an achievement and they'll deserve to be above us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistlenowthistleforever Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Not even win there next two even there games in hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.