The Facts

[Auld Jag]

A number of fans on this forum are saying that other fans are panicking.Iam not panicking but iam getting concerned the facts are.We have not won a league game at home yet,1win in 13 games and 1pt out of our last 5 games.In anybodys book that is relegation form.Our next 2 games are difficult but we need to get at least 1 win from them.After we play Celtic we have 4 games against the teams that are round about us in the league imo we should be looking for a minimum of 8pts from theese games.After these games have been played we should have a better idea of where we might finish in the league.If things haven't improved by then imo we would need to look at Archies position as manager.But I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[cheese]

Thanks man.

[the saint]

Either we choose to acknowledge that we're the newly promoted team, have the lowest playing budget, have a new and inexperienced manager who did an outstanding job getting us promoted and is still learning, have a relatively young and inexperienced squad with very little experience at this level, have only been outplayed in a few games (Aberdeen spring to mind) and as such do all we can to support the team and manager.................................or we do what most fickle football followers do and panic, shout for the managers head and take a backward step as a club.

[javeajag]

I think we all want Archie to succeed but we have also to acknowledge things are not working at the moment..... He needs help in my opinion

[ColinKelvin]

Absolutely no need to talk about getting rid of the manager.

 

I am afraid what has let us down in the past few games has been two things: poor defending (e.g. Hibs' equaliser, yesterday's goals) and plain old bad luck (e.g. the St Mirren handball then our soft sending off; missing lots of good chances yesterday). The obvious criticism of Archie and Paterson is, as experienced defenders, why can't they shore up our defence?

 

We have also perhaps been a bit naive - against Hibs both home and away for example, when 6 points or at least 1 at home and 3 away were there for the taking. We're new, we're still mid-table and in a fight with other not-very-good teams, and we should be OK to avoid automatic relegation. Let's see where we are at the end of Feb. Before then, January signings are going to be important - but only good coaching will improve the defence.

[Norgethistle]

It's not Archie's position we should be looking at but the boards, have they given him the tools an resources to compete, or maximised the revenue stream to top this up. Plain and simple no.

 

Before Archie's head is screamed for the boards should be especially all those sitting there that haven't invested financially

[Lindau]

Agreed. The board need to step up to the plate in January and give the manager some financial backing to get us through this.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Agreed. The board need to step up to the plate in January and give the manager some financial backing to get us through this.

 

That's kinda speculate to accumulate, tho'. If the money is there I really think two decent signings could make the difference. Personally I don't want to see us turned into a clone of two or thee others sides playing survival football but I can respect others wanting us to do anything to ensure safety.

A lot comes down to the level of pay at the gate attendances at Firhill. Continue playing attractive enough football but not scoring and winning then gates will continue to decline. Playing uglier football and scraping wins might not see attendances rise enough to cover any January signings.

I feel one of the things we should be looking at is getting in at least one player that can offer something different either in midfield or upfront*. At the moment most substitutions we make are too like for like. Baird for Lawless that sort of thing. Even yesterday SOD came on for Elliott and was effectively just fresh legs as he played the same role. It's only when Forbes comes on or is subbed that you see some sort of change in attack. Not always for the best but usually enough to unsettle the opposition to some degree.

 

*Like always on this forum you have to qualify this by distancing yourself from the sign a big centre forward that'll guarantee us X goals a season patter.

Edited December 22, 2013 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Norgethistle]

 

 

That's kinda speculate to accumulate, tho'. If the money is there I really think two decent signings could make the difference. Personally I don't want to see us turned into a clone of two or thee others sides playing survival football but I can respect others wanting us to do anything to ensure safety.

A lot comes down to the level of pay at the gate attendances at Firhill. Continue playing attractive enough football but not scoring and winning then gates will continue to decline. Playing uglier football and scraping wins might not see attendances rise enough to cover any January signings.

I feel one of the things we should be looking at is getting in at least one player that can offer something different either in midfield or upfront*. At the moment most substitutions we make are too like for like. Baird for Lawless that sort of thing. Even yesterday SOD came on for Elliott and was effectively just fresh legs as he played the same role. It's only when Forbes comes on or is subbed that you see some sort of change in attack. Not always for the best but usually enough to unsettle the opposition to some degree.

 

*Like always on this forum you have to qualify this by distancing yourself from the sign a big centre forward that'll guarantee us X goals a season patter.

 

Our income (gate, sponsorship & TV money) is vastly increased on last year, the youth team is paid for by the Weirs, and the players are on £500 a week. The running costs (outwith player wages) is the same as last season.

Some of this profit needs to be spent (speculate to accumulate) to ensure we make 10th, we don't even have a scout!!!!!

 

[ian_mac]

The fact is that absolutely no effort has been made by the board to give Archie and Scott the proper infrastructure to build for success.

 

The manager has admitted that there is absolutely no scouting network at the club. This is absolute madness when we are in the top division.

 

Even when we were in the 2nd division we had some sort of scouting network.

 

Surely this is the job of the BOD and general manager to provide this for Archie?

 

That's why we ended up having to take chances on dross like Mukendi. Under a decent scouting network, our contact in the North West of England would know Liverpool's youngsters inside out and could have said to us, "no he isn't good enough" and that would be that.

 

We are now in a situation where Archie and the rest of the management team are probably doing the job of scouts as well as trying to manage the team. This isn't how a top flight club should be operating.

[Lenziejag]

 

 

Our income (gate, sponsorship & TV money) is vastly increased on last year, the youth team is paid for by the Weirs, and the players are on £500 a week. The running costs (outwith player wages) is the same as last season.

Some of this profit needs to be spent (speculate to accumulate) to ensure we make 10th, we don't even have a scout!!!!!

 

Norge, Are you sure these are all facts or just speculation. I agree that revenue is up and I understood that wages were doubling from last season, but I wouldn't be so sure that running costs have remained the same( eg policing/stewarding).

 

I do agree though, that we should be investing some of this years future income into the playing squad and looking to start building a structure to support the management team, but for me it has all got to be done within our means.

[1 John Lambie]

Our income (gate, sponsorship & TV money) is vastly increased on last year, the youth team is paid for by the Weirs, and the players are on £500 a week. The running costs (outwith player wages) is the same as last season.

Some of this profit needs to be spent (speculate to accumulate) to ensure we make 10th, we don't even have a scout!!!!!

 

How do you know the players are on £500 per week? You telling me Osbourne is on £500 per week, Higginbotham? All the guys that signed new contracts at the end of last season? I'd be willing to bet they are not on £500 per week, but like you I am not sitting with the contracts in front of me it is just resonable to assume they are on more than that. We also now have an u20s squad, say 15 extra players, these are all funded from the 1st team budget Maxi said in the Jagscast. These players are probably not on a lot of money but it will certainly add up over the year.

 

The running costs are also increased, we're having to rent pitches for training on a daily basis it appears, policing costs will be up sharply, there's more office staff than there use to be, there was a large outlay relaying the pitch at the start of the season as well as the work done to bring the main stand up to standard plus I'm sure much more work that goes unseen but is required to keep the stadium compliant.

Edited December 22, 2013 by 1 John Lambie

[ian_mac]

 

 

How do you know the players are on £500 per week? You telling me Osbourne is on £500 per week, Higginbotham? All the guys that signed new contracts at the end of last season? I'd be willing to bet they are not on £500 per week, but like you I am not sitting with the contracts in front of me it is just resonable to assume they are on more than that. We also now have an u20s squad, say 15 extra players, these are all funded from the 1st team budget Maxi said in the Jagscast. These players are probably not on a lot of money but it will certainly add up over the year.

 

The running costs are also increased, we're having to rent pitches for training on a daily basis it appears, policing costs will be up sharply, there's more office staff than there use to be, there was a large outlay relaying the pitch at the start of the season as well as the work done to bring the main stand up to standard plus I'm sure much more work that goes unseen but is required to keep the stadium compliant.

Don't forget the totally unnecessary cost of moving the directors back to the main stand

[potty trained]

 

 

How do you know the players are on £500 per week? You telling me Osbourne is on £500 per week, Higginbotham? All the guys that signed new contracts at the end of last season? I'd be willing to bet they are not on £500 per week, but like you I am not sitting with the contracts in front of me it is just resonable to assume they are on more than that. We also now have an u20s squad, say 15 extra players, these are all funded from the 1st team budget Maxi said in the Jagscast. These players are probably not on a lot of money but it will certainly add up over the year.

 

The running costs are also increased, we're having to rent pitches for training on a daily basis it appears, policing costs will be up sharply, there's more office staff than there use to be, there was a large outlay relaying the pitch at the start of the season as well as the work done to bring the main stand up to standard plus I'm sure much more work that goes unseen but is required to keep the stadium compliant.

 

 

Average wage is 500 a week.

 

That comes from basic maths after mcnamara's herald interview a year ago when he told everyone his budget.

 

Then Beattie told the press Archie's budget would be double that of McNamara.

 

Then add in our U20s coach let slip in a conversation the average wage.., so that really just confirmed it.

 

Basically, there or there abouts, Archie's budget is 500k

 

If you are saying running costs have increased due to hiring pitches daily, how has that changed from last season?

 

How do you know police costs are up sharply? They may be up slightly.

 

Did we relay the pitch the season before? Is this not an annual job?

 

How many more office staff are there, incidentally why were volunteers replaced with paid staff?

 

When you say there was work done to being the main stand up to standard, what standard do you mean? One that sees fans insble to wash their hands, or one that sees the directors box and boardroom refurbished?

 

It's a worry that we seem to have taken on all these extra office staff, but there has been absolutely no progress on TAG. What are they doing?

 

Is Elaine Hamilton (found her on linkedIn, the club have never mentioned her) doing Michelle's job, or is she doing stuff previously covered by volunteers?

Edited December 22, 2013 by potty trained

[javeajag]

Yep the board pick the team , organise the defence and miss chance after chance......

We are in danger of thinking this has nothing to do with Archie while it clearly has

Lots of clubs don't have a scouting system

[Lenziejag]

The title of this thread is Facts, but as usual it resorts to folk making up "facts" to suit their agenda

[potty trained]

Yep the board pick the team , organise the defence and miss chance after chance......

We are in danger of thinking this has nothing to do with Archie while it clearly has

Lots of clubs don't have a scouting system

 

No one has said it's entirely their fault. In fact no ine's said the performances on the park are their fault at all.

[Willjag]

 

Is Elaine Hamilton (found her on linkedIn, the club have never mentioned her) doing Michelle's job, or is she doing stuff previously covered by volunteers?

I seem to recall an advert being publicised on here prior to the start of the Season looking for a new Club secretary or something to that effect. I guess that vacancy has been filled?

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

The title of this thread is Facts, but as usual it resorts to folk making up "facts" to suit their agenda

Yeah, there's Lies, Damned Lies and there's facts it seems.

[ian_mac]

Yep the board pick the team , organise the defence and miss chance after chance......

We are in danger of thinking this has nothing to do with Archie while it clearly has

Lots of clubs don't have a scouting system

I'd be interested to know which other clubs in the top league don't have some sort of basic scouting system.

 

Please enlighten us.

Edited December 22, 2013 by ian_mac

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

I know it's not top League but apparently there's a piece in the Sun today that Rangers don't have one and that chief executive Graham Wallace was stunned to find this out.

Edited December 22, 2013 by The Sunnylaw Jag

[potty trained]

The title of this thread is Facts, but as usual it resorts to folk making up "facts" to suit their agenda

 

Care to debunk any of them?

[Fawlty Towers]

As I understand it we have Ian Maxwell as Managing Director, there is David and Lesley the accountants, Kirsty & Kirsten in the office, Elaine who deals with commercial activities and George Francis who was recently appointed as Communications & Media Manager. The club were also recruiting an Operations Manager as well (according to the programme on 09/11/13).

 

There is an Operations Board who remit covers match day and non match day operations, customer experience, marketing to both corporate clients and supporters and communication. The Board is made up of Lance Gilmour (Director of Customer Service), Jim Alexander (Director of Marketing - Fanbase), Brian Donald (Director of Marketing - Corporate), Billy Allan, Greig Brown & Ian Maxwell.

 

The 2nd paragraph is a direct lift from the programme notes of 09/11/13.

 

Hopefully that may clear up a bit of the how many people do we have and what do they do discussion.

[javeajag]

 

I'd be interested to know which other clubs in the top league don't have some sort of basic scouting system.

 

Please enlighten us.

 

Rangers who don't have a scouting system many other clubs do what they do and pay

someone casually to watch games and invest in their youth systems

[lady-isobel-barnett]

To elaborate on my comment about speculating to accumulate. I don't know what our playing budget is and I can only see the negative if the correct amount was generally known. Like many I can see where the Board have wasted money or more commonly missed out on opportunities to increase revenue.

That tho' is a separate subject. Just because they ****** up on the DVD, TAG etc etc doesn't mean that they should make emends by spending money, which in any case will be the Club's not theirs. In fact if their level of stewardship is under question maybe the time is far from right.

I just hope there is enough still in the kitty for Archie in January. But I'm not questioning the quality of our team manager. Others seem to be doubting Archie AND want to give him more cash.