Richard Nixon Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm sure that woman who was trying to buy Killie a couple of seasons ago was mooting the indoor stadium idea. If I recall there is at least one example in Europe were it is done, probably Scandinavia. The Tele2 Arena in Stockholm? It has "a maximum capacity of up to 40,000 and a rectractable roof, the arena is able to host concerts, equestrian, motor sport, ice sports, banquettes, exhibitions, company events and shareholder meetings, in addition to football." I'm not saying these aren't pipe-dream ideas, but it is shown to be possible in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Some of this stuff is pipe dream stuff, fair enough but the reality would be some el cheapo lego indtikit ground, hopefully with 4 sides on a bit of unwanted scrub / waste land over the hill and far away. Carefull for what you wish for. Define "cheapo". North Stand Cheapo? So cheap it doesn't even have an indoor concourse? Previous grounds could have been described as Identikit as practically every main stand was a variant of the Archibald Leech design with an oval terrace and shed. Smaller teams would have the identikt "shoe box" half way up one side of the pitch like Brechin City. But geography is the most important factor. Move further away from the city centre/west end and you risk losing a lot of fans... Move closer to Milngavie and you potentially open up to an untapped market, so to speak. St Mirrens ground, once you take away the "newness" of it all is exactly what we should be aiming for. 8000 seats. 15 minute walk from Paisley town centre, 10 minutes to the nearest pub. Train Station across from the ground (you can get on a train at Gilmour Street at 10 to 3 and be in the ground for kick off. 5 minute drive to the M8. State of the art commentary box and media facilities, TV companies just drive up and plug in, ready to go. Indoor football pitch with changing facilities in the away stand available for public hire. conference facilities available for hire. a "void" space available to local business for hire. ridiculous amount of car parking available, which they have never tapped into as an income stream to locals travelling to work on the train mon-fri. All of this they got for free by selling their land. oh and they also were able to buy land and build their own state of the art training facilities in Ralston. At the end of it, debt free. Where are they now? Similar home crowds to us, a fantastic youth structure with a stream of kids being promoted to the first team and paying wages up to 3k a week. yeah, fck that idea. lets stay where we are. Edited September 30, 2014 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If/when the bing is developed into flats with a wee tiny stand, would that mean the possibility of selling and moving would be gone forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 The Tele2 Arena in Stockholm? It has "a maximum capacity of up to 40,000 and a rectractable roof, the arena is able to host concerts, equestrian, motor sport, ice sports, banquettes, exhibitions, company events and shareholder meetings, in addition to football." I'm not saying these aren't pipe-dream ideas, but it is shown to be possible in other countries. Im sure the example given was much smaller, in the size Killie were proposing (~8k). Can't find anything online about it I used to be in the 'Save Firhill' camp but I'm now not convinced it is best suited to our needs. As said the place is falling apart; the JH, although offering one of the best views in Scottish football, is smattered with broken seats, faded colouring, disgusting toilets and a concourse which hasn't changed since we moved in. The North Stand is an identikit stand, the Main Stand is a death trap and the Bing is literally a dump. The atmosphere has been woeful this year as well, not wanting to diss the North Stand guys but it's been considerably quieter than previous two seasons. I am in two minds about St Mirren's ground. The size is perfect but the stands too shallow meaning the view isn't great on my two visits. I dont know the answer to improving that unless you look at Hamiltons stadium which personally I quite like although I assume others dont. I am however very envious of St Mirren's training centre, youth system and commercial operations. All three put us to shame, although hopefully with Thistle Weir we can hope to emulate their success. Ideally I would have us move from Firhill to an area well served by transport, eateries and bars. We would have a ~8000 seater stadium but with some uniqueness about it. The new Brighton stadium is by far the best fully new ground I have visited and the experience is superior to anything I have seen in British football. The away end, for example, stocked up with Derbyshire beers and food(not just pies...), was lit black and white and had pictures of Derby greats in the concourse which itself was in stark contrast to the bear concrete we get up here. I would have guessed our best chance of getting something would have been a tie in with the Warriors and the Council but I suspect that ship has sailed. I fear relegation this year followed by another long spell plodding along in First Division with sub 2000 crowds. We really should be riding the crest of a wave right now and being very optimistic and bullish of our future, unfortunately for whatever reasons that isn't the case. There is nothing stopping us being an established player in the top division in the country but for that we really need some drive and imagination from the board to keep fans on board and buying into the future vision of the club. TAG looked to be a great platform for this but is now nothing more than a bad joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Some very interesting points. The St Mirren model is unlikely to be developed in the Maryhill/ West-End due to suitabilty/ cost of land. That would mean a move to the north of Glasgow outskirts of Bearsden/ Milngavie? Kelvin Hall is a cracking site but I think its council owned and being refitted as a gym complex? Maybe lacks parking but plenty of transport links near-by. Interesting to see the rise of the Warriors particularly after their move to Scotstoun. Now getting 5-6000 on average after starting out with maybe a quarter of that while we haven't strayed much from 3,000 in terms of home fans. I appreciate they get funding from the SRU but that is eclipsed by monies supplied to some of the leading Welsh, Irish and even Italian clubs. Firhill itself has gone through many changes over the last 30 years. The JHS now seems tired and always struck me as a white elephant to a degree. Have the facilities improved any this season? I enjoy the NS despite its basic nature. The Main Stand has required further work this season. Edge of town developments can certainly work, in my eyes, if the facilities are decent. St Mirren is a good model and about a third of English and Welsh clubs have moved or improved their stadia over the last couple of decades. I'm beginning to feel a move is best for the future of Partick Thistle. I don't know what percentage of home fans actually live in the surrounding area anymore? Despite a perceived lull in the support of the ugly sisters support we have failed to increase our core support despite relative success in the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I can't believe people are talking like this. For me moving stadium would be equivalent to changing colours, or even changing our name. It's one of the key aspects that makes the club what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I can't believe people are talking like this. For me moving stadium would be equivalent to changing colours, or even changing our name. It's one of the key aspects that makes the club what it is. I don't think any of us here is an owner of the club so there's no need to worry. We only discussing options here. I really don't know if Maryhill is important to Partick Thistle, or vice versa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 A move away from Firhill would imo trigger an exodus of fans en masse. I think the only time you can move stadium successfully would be when you're on the way up. I can just about handle poor displays, team not turning up, throwing away leads etc watching from Firhill, crumbling or not. I don't think I could be bothered watching the same in some out of the way purpose built stadium. Purpose built for what? Nobody could convince me that fans of Falkirk, Stirling Albion, St Mirren, Dumbarton etc are happier where they now are than where they once were. They may be realistic about their moves, especially if it helped trigger unaccustomed success on the park but that's a different matter. Make a ground more difficult to get to or require an extra leg's transport you better have something in place from day one to compensate. As pointed out elsewhere once folk stay away they often don't come back. Or give up a season ticket you just pick and choose your games. Folk are possibly staying away from Firhill as it is because it's lost some of its allure. Would be many times worse going to a new home with no memories, no association. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Not saying Firhill is perfect, but it is our home and yes I would honestly still far rather have what we have than what St Mirren have. The decline in Firhill mirrors the decline in Thistle over many years, if we were to improve our operation both on and off the pitch over the coming years I believe that we would be able to improve Firhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 A move away from Firhill would imo trigger an exodus of fans en masse. I think the only time you can move stadium successfully would be when you're on the way up. I can just about handle poor displays, team not turning up, throwing away leads etc watching from Firhill, crumbling or not. I don't think I could be bothered watching the same in some out of the way purpose built stadium. Purpose built for what? Nobody could convince me that fans of Falkirk, Stirling Albion, St Mirren, Dumbarton etc are happier where they now are than where they once were. They may be realistic about their moves, especially if it helped trigger unaccustomed success on the park but that's a different matter. Make a ground more difficult to get to or require an extra leg's transport you better have something in place from day one to compensate. As pointed out elsewhere once folk stay away they often don't come back. Or give up a season ticket you just pick and choose your games. Folk are possibly staying away from Firhill as it is because it's lost some of its allure. Would be many times worse going to a new home with no memories, no association. Mate, St Mirren's ground is actually easier to get to than Love Street was, it now has a train station across the road, and is closer to the M8. Its a 10 minute walk along Murray Street from where the old ground was. The only gripe they have as fans, was that the club didn't handle moving of Season Ticket holders properly, so it meant that folk who had sat together for years, or were together as part of a singing section were split up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Mate, St Mirren's ground is actually easier to get to than Love Street was, it now has a train station across the road, and is closer to the M8. Its a 10 minute walk along Murray Street from where the old ground was. The only gripe they have as fans, was that the club didn't handle moving of Season Ticket holders properly, so it meant that folk who had sat together for years, or were together as part of a singing section were split up. Sorry, but I do all my measuring from the Wee Barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry, but I do all my measuring from the Wee Barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Long term aims? ... Easy..... Champions league. Seriously. If the likes of St Johnstone and Motherwell can achieve concurrent and consecutive seasons qualification to European competition then it should not be mere fantasy that our club cannot hold the ambition to equal and better their success. We exist in a small league, which has it's dangers but presents great opportunity. What is required to capitalise on those oppourtunities is the critical question. Our shortcomings in establishing our club as a strong, competitive and well supported sporting institution are many and their relevance can be debated by fans. However, it is, of course, the "custodians" who's decisions effect our chances. Over the years, I've been gravely concerned about some of the plans to come out of our boardroom, but I have always maintained gratitude that there are still people able and willing to take the reigns. The problem is, in my opinion, that in the 30 or so years I've been going to Firhill, we have never been so lucky to have a board which has had an sound, optimistic, inventive, commercial spark which has recognised the potential of Partick Thistle or had the commitment and fortitude to lead our club towards a modern, innovative, profitable and stable vision. I fully appreciate the difficulties. It has been predominantly a period of survival with low interest and following. However, I do feel that, understandably, there has been an erring on the side of caution and maintainence to the detriment of the potential prosperity and the negligence (or under-estimation) of the loyalty, passion and creativity of a, granted small, but extremely passionate group of die-hard supporters and much larger latent, but affectionate following. We are first and foremost a football club and altruistic gifts without the infrastructure or personel to capitalise on them can be easily wasted. It was absolutely correct to use the Weir's dosh to set up the seriouslly over due youth scheme. But, in order to establish ourselves as an institution at the forefront of, what is now a highly competitive commercial industry, I think that diversification is essential. By it's very nature sport is unpredictable and therefore not the ideal footing to establish a consistent business plan. We have to think about other areas, services or products where we can offer excellence, regardless of how the team is performing. Hospitality, for example, at matches is a relatively new feature to everyone bar visiting officials and directors. I think perhaps we have been as guilty as others of a culture of "keeping up with the Jones's" rather than forging ahead with exciting and innovative packages designed to seriously tap into new markets and entice new custom and interest. I've said before, the best signing the club could make would be another Jez Moxey. Not that he was perfect, but he did have an understanding, and empathy for how to generate cash as a football club, as opposed to a football club who meandres along taking what they can get for playing football, feasting on sporting success and occasionally pawning it's assets when times are tough. He may have had to go along with the "Propco" plan, but I am almost certain he would have come up with realistic alternate, more exciting, long term initiatives with the prosperity of the club at their core to utilise the investment of Thistle minded "philanthropists". Flats and offices are not going to finance or enhance our future. The potential is still there. Edited September 30, 2014 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Define "cheapo". North Stand Cheapo? So cheap it doesn't even have an indoor concourse? Previous grounds could have been described as Identikit as practically every main stand was a variant of the Archibald Leech design with an oval terrace and shed. Smaller teams would have the identikt "shoe box" half way up one side of the pitch like Brechin City. But geography is the most important factor. Move further away from the city centre/west end and you risk losing a lot of fans... Move closer to Milngavie and you potentially open up to an untapped market, so to speak. St Mirrens ground, once you take away the "newness" of it all is exactly what we should be aiming for. 8000 seats. 15 minute walk from Paisley town centre, 10 minutes to the nearest pub. Train Station across from the ground (you can get on a train at Gilmour Street at 10 to 3 and be in the ground for kick off. 5 minute drive to the M8. State of the art commentary box and media facilities, TV companies just drive up and plug in, ready to go. Indoor football pitch with changing facilities in the away stand available for public hire. conference facilities available for hire. a "void" space available to local business for hire. ridiculous amount of car parking available, which they have never tapped into as an income stream to locals travelling to work on the train mon-fri. All of this they got for free by selling their land. oh and they also were able to buy land and build their own state of the art training facilities in Ralston. At the end of it, debt free. Where are they now? Similar home crowds to us, a fantastic youth structure with a stream of kids being promoted to the first team and paying wages up to 3k a week. yeah, fck that idea. lets stay where we are. Where is there in North/West Glasgow though? Cowlairs was mooted once upon a time. Pretty sure there are many pubs within 10 minutes walk (whether you choose to drink in them another thing altogether) but no railway line. Many St Mirren fans were unhappy at moving as they saw Feegy Park as outside of Paisley. Broadwood has a pub within 2 minutes walk & about 10/15 minute walk from Croy. It more or less has killed Clyde. It's all very well saying about a move but it has to be right in a geography sense & truthfully I can't see many, if any, spaces like you describe available in the North/West of Galsgow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hooray for the alcoholics of Scotland and their only concern - where is the nearest pub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north stander Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Don't forget eateries such as jaconelli's, the codfather and cube cafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 The long term aim of Partick Thistle Football Club should be to survive for another 138 years. That means future generations of fans can enjoy the ups and downs as much as i have. If they are lucky, they'll meet some really nice people and make good friends for life. Nothing surer than football is cyclical. When you are down, you long to be back up in the top league. When you are up, some fans want to be higher. Three things are certain in life : Death, Taxes and football fans moaning about their position in the league. No Scouting system, signing policy or formation will change that. I've been watching Thistle for 37 years. I just try and enjoy the journey now. I know what's around the corner for the club(eventually) and it ain't pleasant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 It's where you move to and what you build, my fear is we would do a broadwood a ground in the middle of nowhere out with the traditional catchment area devoid of pubs transport links etc, where in our catchment area could we realistically go that would keep the same amenities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 It's where you move to and what you build, my fear is we would do a broadwood a ground in the middle of nowhere out with the traditional catchment area devoid of pubs transport links etc, where in our catchment area could we realistically go that would keep the same amenities It's very difficult to find an area big enough in the West/North of Glasgow that isn't already earmarked for development. Maybe the area near Maryhill locks ... twenty years ago before it was flooded with houses. The area of the old Ruchill hospital? I don't know what's going on up there. Somewhere in Lambhill? Suddenly you're so far away from everything though we would end up like Clyde. But the regeneration that is happening around the Clyde these days probably means all the land is much too expensive. Again, maybe twenty years ago when nobody wanted any of it. It's kind of interesting just to look at a map of brownfield sites in Glasgow and to play "Stadium Architect". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 We could change our name to Brownfield United and play in brown. And Craigie Brown could give Archie the support of an older man that he so craves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 A move away from Firhill would imo trigger an exodus of fans en masse. I think the only time you can move stadium successfully would be when you're on the way up. I can just about handle poor displays, team not turning up, throwing away leads etc watching from Firhill, crumbling or not. I don't think I could be bothered watching the same in some out of the way purpose built stadium. Purpose built for what? Nobody could convince me that fans of Falkirk, Stirling Albion, St Mirren, Dumbarton etc are happier where they now are than where they once were. They may be realistic about their moves, especially if it helped trigger unaccustomed success on the park but that's a different matter. Make a ground more difficult to get to or require an extra leg's transport you better have something in place from day one to compensate. As pointed out elsewhere once folk stay away they often don't come back. Or give up a season ticket you just pick and choose your games. Folk are possibly staying away from Firhill as it is because it's lost some of its allure. Would be many times worse going to a new home with no memories, no association. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Define "cheapo". North Stand Cheapo? So cheap it doesn't even have an indoor concourse? Previous grounds could have been described as Identikit as practically every main stand was a variant of the Archibald Leech design with an oval terrace and shed. Smaller teams would have the identikt "shoe box" half way up one side of the pitch like Brechin City. But geography is the most important factor. Move further away from the city centre/west end and you risk losing a lot of fans... Move closer to Milngavie and you potentially open up to an untapped market, so to speak. St Mirrens ground, once you take away the "newness" of it all is exactly what we should be aiming for. 8000 seats. 15 minute walk from Paisley town centre, 10 minutes to the nearest pub. Train Station across from the ground (you can get on a train at Gilmour Street at 10 to 3 and be in the ground for kick off. 5 minute drive to the M8. State of the art commentary box and media facilities, TV companies just drive up and plug in, ready to go. Indoor football pitch with changing facilities in the away stand available for public hire. conference facilities available for hire. a "void" space available to local business for hire. ridiculous amount of car parking available, which they have never tapped into as an income stream to locals travelling to work on the train mon-fri. All of this they got for free by selling their land. oh and they also were able to buy land and build their own state of the art training facilities in Ralston. At the end of it, debt free. Where are they now? Similar home crowds to us, a fantastic youth structure with a stream of kids being promoted to the first team and paying wages up to 3k a week. yeah, fck that idea. lets stay where we are. You make a very good case regarding St Mirren and in their circumstances you are right, it made good sense to move. No disrespect to the Saints, but Love Street was IMO not nearly as good a ground as Firhill (even in it's present state) and I honestly do believe it would be a great shame to leave all our history and tradition behind unless we really had too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 You make a very good case regarding St Mirren and in their circumstances you are right, it made good sense to move. No disrespect to the Saints, but Love Street was IMO not nearly as good a ground as Firhill (even in it's present state) and I honestly do believe it would be a great shame to leave all our history and tradition behind unless we really had too. But what history and tradition does Firhill really have left these days? There's nothing left of the oval which marked the ground as a racehound track. There's two identikit meccano stands, and a crumbling edifice of a main stand. The place is already crowded out at one end by student flats, and if the board have their way, two sides of the stadium will be destroyed to make way for yet more flats and two tiny meccano stands squeezed in as an afterthought. My thoughts might not be feasible, but are looking at trying to improve the club as a whole - just remember the owners of half the land are solely interested in making a profit, with the clubs interests treated as incidental to that. If anyone doesn't think that's the case I suggest they take another look at those god-awful plans for the City End. Can I ask what contributes to the 'history' of Firhill? The nineteenth-century facilities in the Main Stand or the stanchions that block the view? I honestly don't see any difference between Love Street and Firhill. May I suggest that people are still clinging to a romanticised view of a ground that hasn't existed in over twenty years? Just remember, like I said above, soon enough there won't be much of a stadium left at all, and any chance to sell off the ground for somewhere new will be completely impossible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 But what history and tradition does Firhill really have left these days? There's nothing left of the oval which marked the ground as a racehound track. There's two identikit meccano stands, and a crumbling edifice of a main stand. The place is already crowded out at one end by student flats, and if the board have their way, two sides of the stadium will be destroyed to make way for yet more flats and two tiny meccano stands squeezed in as an afterthought. My thoughts might not be feasible, but are looking at trying to improve the club as a whole - just remember the owners of half the land are solely interested in making a profit, with the clubs interests treated as incidental to that. If anyone doesn't think that's the case I suggest they take another look at those god-awful plans for the City End. Can I ask what contributes to the 'history' of Firhill? The nineteenth-century facilities in the Main Stand or the stanchions that block the view? I honestly don't see any difference between Love Street and Firhill. May I suggest that people are still clinging to a romanticised view of a ground that hasn't existed in over twenty years? Just remember, like I said above, soon enough there won't be much of a stadium left at all, and any chance to sell off the ground for somewhere new will be completely impossible. It's not just what Firhill is, but where it is that's important 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 But what history and tradition does Firhill really have left these days? There's nothing left of the oval which marked the ground as a racehound track. There's two identikit meccano stands, and a crumbling edifice of a main stand. The place is already crowded out at one end by student flats, and if the board have their way, two sides of the stadium will be destroyed to make way for yet more flats and two tiny meccano stands squeezed in as an afterthought. My thoughts might not be feasible, but are looking at trying to improve the club as a whole - just remember the owners of half the land are solely interested in making a profit, with the clubs interests treated as incidental to that. If anyone doesn't think that's the case I suggest they take another look at those god-awful plans for the City End. Can I ask what contributes to the 'history' of Firhill? The nineteenth-century facilities in the Main Stand or the stanchions that block the view? I honestly don't see any difference between Love Street and Firhill. May I suggest that people are still clinging to a romanticised view of a ground that hasn't existed in over twenty years? Just remember, like I said above, soon enough there won't be much of a stadium left at all, and any chance to sell off the ground for somewhere new will be completely impossible. to me partick thistle are a Glasgow club if you take the club away from the city IMO you are taking away part of its soul. I have no desire to see partick thistle playing in East Kilbride, paisley, Stalingrad or wherever - it just wouldn't seem right to mover he club away from the city 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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