Jaggernaut Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Have to say I agree entirely with read 'n' yell on his comments about Doolan. He will get us 12-15 goals over a season and he does work hard but he just doesn't contribute enough overall to the team. He gets knocked off the ball too easily and is not good at holding onto the ball for long enough to bring other players into play. I would still hold on to him as good strikers are thin on the ground but he is well short of Lyle Taylor who really did put defenders under a lot of pressure. I wonder what the goal ratio per game time was for Taylor and Doolan last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I wonder what the goal ratio per game time was for Taylor and Doolan last season. Doolan scored a goal every 183 minutes - 8th best in Premiership Taylor scored a goal every 216 minutes - 19th best in Premiership 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Have to say I agree entirely with read 'n' yell on his comments about Doolan. He will get us 12-15 goals over a season and he does work hard but he just doesn't contribute enough overall to the team. He gets knocked off the ball too easily and is not good at holding onto the ball for long enough to bring other players into play. I would still hold on to him as good strikers are thin on the ground but he is well short of Lyle Taylor who really did put defenders under a lot of pressure. Think you're showing Doolan a bit of disrespect , last year he scored 12 SPFL goals in his first season in the top league and he played just over half the games alternating with Lyle Taylor . It depends what you're looking for in a striker , Lyle Taylor was good for us in certain games because of his physicality and his pace but seemed to run out of steam after 60 mins. Doolan and Taylor's goals kept us in the Premier League last year with not a lot of goal scoring back up from our midfield, I agree we sometimes need a more physical approach upfront to compliment Doolan but we shouldn't diss Dools contribution last year or what he does for our team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 You don't mate, you're fine with that analysis. The other one that gets my goat is the use of 'of' instead of 'have'. 'should of' should be a direct ban for inability to be able to write the language properly. Strictly speaking it's "instead of " 've" ", i.e. "should've". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Doolan scored a goal every 183 minutes - 8th best in Premiership Taylor scored a goal every 216 minutes - 19th best in Premiership Thanks. That reinforces my puzzlement over some people's belief that Taylor is somehow a better striker than Doolan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's all about opinions as I would have Doolan as the first name on the team sheet every time. Love his attitude, professionalism and his play. Great touch. Hold up play and the goals he scores. As for the rest of the team I would guess it would be the big Belgian to come in for Seabourne and I would keep the rest of the players who did well against Dundee United. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiththejag Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's all about opinions as I would have Doolan as the first name on the team sheet every time. Love his attitude, professionalism and his play. Great touch. Hold up play and the goals he scores. As for the rest of the team I would guess it would be the big Belgian to come in for Seabourne and I would keep the rest of the players who did well against Dundee United. This. If you were ask any SPFL defender how much he looks forward to playing against Kris I'd bet the answer would be not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Doolan scored a goal every 183 minutes - 8th best in Premiership Taylor scored a goal every 216 minutes - 19th best in Premiership And 2 different styles of attacker, would have dools everyday of the week, although having them play off each other would be a great front line, but wouldnt suit our style of play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ok, to try and put a better spin on the argument, I looked up how many goals we scored when each player started the game - i.e. how we played as a team. This is the most important aspect for a formation that has 3 attack minded midfielders who are supposed to score as much (together) as the striker infront. Doolan started 23, goals for 22, goals against 37. Taylor started 17, goals for 27, goals against 30. So when Doolan started we averaged 0.95 goals a game, compared to Taylor and 1.59 goals per game. A big big difference in a very tight, relitively low scoring league. The difference between goals scored and conceded when Doolan started is -0.73. Taylor the difference was reduced down to -0.17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinsplustwo Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 we are not worthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ok, to try and put a better spin on the argument, I looked up how many goals we scored when each player started the game - i.e. how we played as a team. This is the most important aspect for a formation that has 3 attack minded midfielders who are supposed to score as much (together) as the striker infront. Doolan started 23, goals for 22, goals against 37. Taylor started 17, goals for 27, goals against 30. So when Doolan started we averaged 0.95 goals a game, compared to Taylor and 1.59 goals per game. A big big difference in a very tight, relitively low scoring league. The difference between goals scored and conceded when Doolan started is -0.73. Taylor the difference was reduced down to -0.17. But we're the other 10 players the same or do we have a coincidence ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 The make up of the opposition must come into it too surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buchanio Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 The make up of the opposition must come into it too surely. We were in the bottom six so the last run of league games were much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Have we got heat maps for each player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Three points raised: Coincidence - I don't think so. Taylor provided a lot of extra space for the midfield to get involved in the final third. Make up of opposition? Taylor played in two of the three v Celtic. Outwith that much of the opposition was similar. Taylor played while in bottom six? Doolan started 3 and Taylor 2 after the split! So that argument is void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Three points raised: Coincidence - I don't think so. Taylor provided a lot of extra space for the midfield to get involved in the final third. Make up of opposition? Taylor played in two of the three v Celtic. Outwith that much of the opposition was similar. Taylor played while in bottom six? Doolan started 3 and Taylor 2 after the split! So that argument is void. How many did each score from outside the box, inside the 18 yard box, inside the 6 yard box. I need a serious breakdown here before I can decide. What is it we're trying to decide, by the way? Is it an accurate assumption to suggest that we didn't have a planB until Taylor came. Or lump it high, as it's known? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Early on last season we dominated games, but seemed to want to walk the ball into the net, nobody seemed that keen to take a shot. When Lyle Taylor came in it Higgy started to hit form also Gary Fraser came in and started to have loads of pot shots, which also seemed to encourage othres to have a shot. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that we were a bit shot shy during the first half of last season. Taylor & Doolan both excellent strikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buchanio Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 At the end of the day we have arguably the more committed striker at the club as the other chose to chase the silver dollar. I know who would be in my team every week as his touch is immaculate and he never wastes a ball and gives 100%. He has also had more cause than most to spit the dummy out but always bounces back...! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Three points raised: Coincidence - I don't think so. Taylor provided a lot of extra space for the midfield to get involved in the final third. He also played in a team that had Erskine, the Prince, Mair, and Gallagher all making us a stronger team from the back forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 What about the games when both Dools and Taylor started together (and there were at least two)? When Craigen was in the team? When Gallagher was in the team? When Gabby was in the team? When Mercury was retrograde? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 When Doolan and Taylor played together we won 1 and lost 2. In my stats I included goals for both of them. Hence why there is 41 games started between them. I'm by no means knocking Doolan. I do like him/ his commitment and he is good for a goal every three or so games. I just don't think he is the right first choice for us just now. We need someone with more of a presence. Just a lot of people were saying dools is better than Taylor and I just don't agree with that. So backed it with facts - the way this forum seems to work. I'm getting at is I dont think Doolan is an essential cog and therefore Eccleston should get a shot. Baird got his shot last year and Eccleston deserves his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm getting at is I dont think Doolan is an essential cog and therefore Eccleston should get a shot. Baird got his shot last year and Eccleston deserves his. I'll agree that Eccleston should get a shot IF the management team deem he is fit enough. Doolan may not be an essential cog (and who is? Every cog can be replaced) but he is certainly a reliable one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 When Doolan and Taylor played together we won 1 and lost 2. In my stats I included goals for both of them. Hence why there is 41 games started between them. I'm by no means knocking Doolan. I do like him/ his commitment and he is good for a goal every three or so games. I just don't think he is the right first choice for us just now. We need someone with more of a presence. Just a lot of people were saying dools is better than Taylor and I just don't agree with that. So backed it with facts - the way this forum seems to work. I'm getting at is I dont think Doolan is an essential cog and therefore Eccleston should get a shot. Baird got his shot last year and Eccleston deserves his. As you're going down the stats line , Nathan Ecclestone has scored 7 goals in his 5 year professional career that includes the one he scored for us against St Mirren , that hardly suggests he is a proven goal scorer . It would be a huge gamble to take our top goal scorer out of the team . Dools played well on Saturday with very little support, I would switch Craigan to the right and play Lawless just behind Doolan that I think would give us more of a goal threat.I'm sure Ecclestone will get a chance at some stage of the season but from what I've seen of him so far probably more useful as an impact sub. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I can't really comment on Nathan Ecclestone. I do however have much more faith in Kris Doolan up front, than I do of Stevo "playing" as a striker. Archie hasn't done Doolan any favours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Carlos I Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 When Doolan and Taylor played together we won 1 and lost 2. In my stats I included goals for both of them. Hence why there is 41 games started between them. I'm by no means knocking Doolan. I do like him/ his commitment and he is good for a goal every three or so games. I just don't think he is the right first choice for us just now. We need someone with more of a presence. Just a lot of people were saying dools is better than Taylor and I just don't agree with that. So backed it with facts - the way this forum seems to work. I'm getting at is I dont think Doolan is an essential cog and therefore Eccleston should get a shot. Baird got his shot last year and Eccleston deserves his. Doolan has done nothing to deserve to be dropped and Eccleston has done very little to show he deserves a start. We need competition for places up front (and Stevenson is clearly not going to provide it) - but there's absolutely no reason to drop Doolan again. He has to be the most underrated and undervalued player at the club. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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