Norgethistle Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: That’s true, but everyone knew that the income streams would have been different after relegation, think they possibly gambled to get back to the Premier League at the first attempt on the back of the parachute payments That appears to be the case, it would (in hindsight) have been better to have a small cut last year and set ourselves up as a Championship team then if all went well we’d be high and dry, rather than placing it all on red and realizing your playing dominoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Dark Passenger said: Does whoever is feeding you information think they can do a better job than the current chairman/chief executive? And does your contact on the Motherwell coaching staff think they'd be a better manager than Caldwell? It was announced by the Club ? Its Official News - its not up to Fans to propose who should manage the Club thats up to the Shareholders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) Just me that finds that statement a bit distasteful? No thanks given to the departing/departed workers, and essentially ending with “multiple workers are losing their jobs but we can sign an extra player or two.” Edited May 21, 2019 by KemoAvdiu 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said: If it was "very predictable" then presumably you think it was inevitable, so how could it have been prevented? It couldn't as you would have to make cuts when relegated but that way its planned and managed and your not reacting to events after having spent the Parachute Money just to avoid relegation as for leaks Ive asked lots of questions on cashflow - simply looking at our set up and drop in income it didnt stack up / no leaks just Arithmetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: There is projecting your shortfall and actually acting on it, finance guys can give their recommendations but it’s always the CEO or GM that acts on it or ignores it hoping for that postal order to finally turn up We had a bank of last resort - normal rules perhaps did not apply. The point is they should. Always. Edited May 21, 2019 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 What a distasteful announcement. Cutting people loose then in the same statement saying the money saved will go on the playing budget. Thid board and chairman are utterly crass and classless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Anyone else thinking that the club lost a large amount of class when Ian Maxwell vacated to the south side? Gerry and Jacqui just don't cut it on any level at the moment for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I'm surprised that anyone is surprised at any of this to be honest.. We put all our eggs in the basket of going straight back up last year.. The money wasted on players was absolutely ridiculous. Kinda sick of the constant whinging about the club's not being run right .. Everyone's happy to have a pop at the current board and Gerry but the previous manager and board decided not to put relegation clauses in 3 of our biggest paid players contracts.. that had a big impact on our summer signings. There has been a big improvement since January, considering the absolute cluster **** of signings Archie made at the start of the season we ended up 6th.. This season I don't expect us to run away with the leauge by any means but I feel we are trying to make cuts for the playing budget to make sure we get the right players in to make a decent push. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Thistle88 said: I'm surprised that anyone is surprised at any of this to be honest.. We put all our eggs in the basket of going straight back up last year.. The money wasted on players was absolutely ridiculous. Kinda sick of the constant whinging about the club's not being run right .. Everyone's happy to have a pop at the current board and Gerry but the previous manager and board decided not to put relegation clauses in 3 of our biggest paid players contracts.. that had a big impact on our summer signings. There has been a big improvement since January, considering the absolute cluster **** of signings Archie made at the start of the season we ended up 6th.. This season I don't expect us to run away with the leauge by any means but I feel we are trying to make cuts for the playing budget to make sure we get the right players in to make a decent push. Not one person is saying we shouldn’t look to get players in, bla bla bla. What people are saying is that it’s absolutely classless to announce people’s redundancies (people with mortgages to pay and kids to feed) and end the statement by saying their wages will fund new signings. If you can’t see that as being as crass as it gets then fine. And nobody is defending the previous board (I’m not). They’re irrelevant to the conversation. They didn’t write that statement, they haven’t been responsible for the atrocious communications over the past year, and they aren’t currently running the club in a way that is making a decent amount of sponsors and others disengage from the club. If you’re happy with how the club is being run then fine, but many aren’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: Not one person is saying we shouldn’t look to get players in, bla bla bla. What people are saying is that it’s absolutely classless to announce people’s redundancies (people with mortgages to pay and kids to feed) and end the statement by saying their wages will fund new signings. If you can’t see that as being as crass as it gets then fine. And nobody is defending the previous board (I’m not). They’re irrelevant to the conversation. They didn’t write that statement, they haven’t been responsible for the atrocious communications over the past year, and they aren’t currently running the club in a way that is making a decent amount of sponsors and others disengage from the club. If you’re happy with how the club is being run then fine, but many aren’t. How are the previous board irrelivent? They helped put is where we are at this moment in time.. I'm certainly not saying people deserve not to lose their jobs at all.. but at the end of the day it is a business and they have to do whats necessary budget wise to get the most out of the team we put on the park first and foremost. At the end of the day we need the best team we can get to target promotion and then fingers crossed we will have more positions for more people again.. if that makes sense ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Thistle88 said: How are the previous board irrelivent? They helped put is where we are at this moment in time.. I'm certainly not saying people deserve not to lose their jobs at all.. but at the end of the day it is a business and they have to do whats necessary budget wise to get the most out of the team we put on the park first and foremost. At the end of the day we need the best team we can get to target promotion and then fingers crossed we will have more positions for more people again.. if that makes sense ? Again, I’m not even necessarily criticising the redundancies. I’m criticising the absolutely crass and tone-deaf statement that justifies people losing their jobs because it’ll (I’m paraphrasing) allow us to get in an extra loanee or two from Wigan. Any person with any feel for how to manage this type of process - or actually to manage people in general - can see that’s incredibly tasteless and classless, surely? They are irrelevant to the criticisms I’m making of the board/club leadership’s current management of the club. I’m not sure what David Beattie’s role was in writing that statement, to give one small example. Or Billy Allan’s role in how the Doolan situation was handled, to give another. Edited May 21, 2019 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Thistle88 said: How are the previous board irrelivent? They helped put is where we are at this moment in time.. I'm certainly not saying people deserve not to lose their jobs at all.. but at the end of the day it is a business and they have to do whats necessary budget wise to get the most out of the team we put on the park first and foremost. At the end of the day we need the best team we can get to target promotion and then fingers crossed we will have more positions for more people again.. if that makes sense ? I’m not sure the direction that we’re going in is workable for a sustainable future, I want to be watching PTFC for the next 20 years , are we going to do that by throwing money at it and hope we get promotion, what happens if we reach the Premier League? We might get a couple of years in it then relegated again and then we start from scratch again . Surely you’ve got to start with the infrastructure of the Club, from the Academy upwards and build something sustainable year upon year , eventually we will become a Premier League team but we’ve got more of a chance of establishing ourselves as a Premier League club like a St Johnstone or Motherwell We’ve got to explore other income streams , functions , getting more of the local businesses involved etc Think Firhill as a match day experience is probably used no more than 30 days out of the whole year , there is many more options to explore for a stadium that is used so sparingly throughout the year , concerts , boxing matches etc . All we’re really doing just now is a patch up job , there doesn’t seem to be any discernible business plan for the next 5 /10 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: Again, I’m not even necessarily criticising the redundancies. I’m criticising the absolutely crass and tone-deaf statement that justifies people losing their jobs because it’ll (I’m paraphrasing) allow us to get in an extra loanee or two from Wigan. Any person with any feel for how to manage this type of process - or actually to manage people in general - can see that’s incredibly tasteless and classless, surely? They are irrelevant to the criticisms I’m making of the board/club leadership’s current management of the club. I’m not sure what David Beattie’s role was in writing that statement, to give one small example. Or Billy Allan’s role in how the Doolan situation was handled, to give another. I understand but paying any worker off in anyway is classless and certainly not a nice thing to do for anyone .. It's still a business though? The Doolan situation should have been handled a lot better in my opinion.. but again that's business. He will always be a Legend in the supporters eyes.. We need to start fresh though.. constantly relying on the same people is one of the reasons we struggled last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: I’m not sure the direction that we’re going in is workable for a sustainable future, I want to be watching PTFC for the next 20 years , are we going to do that by throwing money at it and hope we get promotion, what happens if we reach the Premier League? We might get a couple of years in it then relegated again and then we start from scratch again . Surely you’ve got to start with the infrastructure of the Club, from the Academy upwards and build something sustainable year upon year , eventually we will become a Premier League team but we’ve got more of a chance of establishing ourselves as a Premier League club like a St Johnstone or Motherwell We’ve got to explore other income streams , functions , getting more of the local businesses involved etc Think Firhill as a match day experience is probably used no more than 30 days out of the whole year , there is many more options to explore for a stadium that is used so sparingly throughout the year , concerts , boxing matches etc . All we’re really doing just now is a patch up job , there doesn’t seem to be any discernible business plan for the next 5 /10 years I don't think we should overspend on the playing budget at all but things were a disaster last season.. and the way Caldwell built a better team from January onwards has really made me think he can do well for us. And yet strangley enough I have a slight dislike for him. But we have 3 players who will be in the team at some point who have came through our youth system.. Penrice, Fitzpatick and obviously although he is older now Banzo. I haven't seen anywhere that we won't still be trying to promote youth players into our team.? Have I missed something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thistle88 said: I don't think we should overspend on the playing budget at all but things were a disaster last season.. and the way Caldwell built a better team from January onwards has really made me think he can do well for us. And yet strangley enough I have a slight dislike for him. But we have 3 players who will be in the team at some point who have came through our youth system.. Penrice, Fitzpatick and obviously although he is older now Banzo. I haven't seen anywhere that we won't still be trying to promote youth players into our team.? Have I missed something ? The trouble for a lot of teams is making the jump for young players between the u18s and the first team with no reserve team and u20s league. We’ve only played token value to the Weir Academy over the 7 years with James Penrice and Liam Lindsey being regulars, I’m sure Aiden will in time become a regular starter , Banzo was signed in 2011 . It’s not a lot for that period of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, Thistle88 said: I understand but paying any worker off in anyway is classless and certainly not a nice thing to do for anyone .. It's still a business though? The Doolan situation should have been handled a lot better in my opinion.. but again that's business. He will always be a Legend in the supporters eyes.. We need to start fresh though.. constantly relying on the same people is one of the reasons we struggled last year. Redundancies aren’t in themselves classless. Statements like that are. There’s a way of doing these things and that wasn’t it. And yes it’s a business. And in a business you treat people with respect and dignity, not as chips to be traded in return for new signings to appease fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: It was announced by the Club ? Its Official News - its not up to Fans to propose who should manage the Club thats up to the Shareholders It seems the shareholders have little if any sway over boardroom decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: Redundancies aren’t in themselves classless. Statements like that are. There’s a way of doing these things and that wasn’t it. And yes it’s a business. And in a business you treat people with respect and dignity, not as chips to be traded in return for new signings to appease fans. That's a club statement, it doesn't mean our employees have been told they have lost their jobs this way ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thistle88 said: That's a club statement, it doesn't mean our employees have been told they have lost their jobs this way ?? No, clearly not. But announcing it in a public way and framing it as a way to buy new players is pathetic. I’m genuinely not sure what’s so difficult to understand about that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Its PR bullsh!t to mention it goes to playing budget - probably to dampen criticism You have a finite income - although from some thing I have heard dwindling may be better description but lets use finite You have that income to spend The less that goes on off field costs, the more there is for players Ergo , any cut in costs (when you are debt free) must increase the player budget - unless you are wanting to make a profit and generate positive cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Just me that finds that statement a bit distasteful? No thanks given to the departing/departed workers, and essentially ending with “multiple workers are losing their jobs but we can sign an extra player or two.” Why don't you re-write a club statement that says "we didn't do well enough last season" to "we won the championship and have been promoted to the premiership"? Just as much BS but more pleasing to the senses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 It is PR bullshit the way it is mentioned but bullshit PR is what you get when you don't have the right people doing the right job. Not in the least bit ironic that a "rigorous restructuring programme" is highly likely to result in even more PR bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Again, I’m not even necessarily criticising the redundancies. I’m criticising the absolutely crass and tone-deaf statement that justifies people losing their jobs because it’ll (I’m paraphrasing) allow us to get in an extra loanee or two from Wigan. Any person with any feel for how to manage this type of process - or actually to manage people in general - can see that’s incredibly tasteless and classless, surely? They are irrelevant to the criticisms I’m making of the board/club leadership’s current management of the club. I’m not sure what David Beattie’s role was in writing that statement, to give one small example. Or Billy Allan’s role in how the Doolan situation was handled, to give another. Billy Allan left two Years ago - David Beattie circa 12 Months - they have had zero input to anything thats going on - the last match they attended they were guests of one of the Ambassadors - not the Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Erm, that was his point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: Anyone else thinking that the club lost a large amount of class when Ian Maxwell vacated to the south side? Gerry and Jacqui just don't cut it on any level at the moment for me. I think we feel the Loss of Beattie - Billy Allan & Greig Brown - but in fairness to Maxi he had a gut feel for things and got better over the Years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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