Garscube Road End Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: I don't know ….. let me think …… it makes sense??? Closing down a thread because you want to? Dont read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 To try and get the thread back on track - look at tonight’ starting 11 and the bench for J Low’s legacy. A collection of duds and crocks signed by the man she employed as manager and had no intention of sacking despite him showing time and time again that he didn’t have a clue what he was doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Big Col said: To try and get the thread back on track - look at tonight’ starting 11 and the bench for J Low’s legacy. A collection of duds and crocks signed by the man she employed as manager and had no intention of sacking despite him showing time and time again that he didn’t have a clue what he was doing. Is that Archie or Caldwell or both ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Just now, Springburnjag said: Is that Archie or Caldwell or both ? I was referring to Mr Caldwell. Credit to her for recognising time was up for Archibald but disastrous appointment in Caldwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Garscube Road End said: Closing down a thread because you want to? Dont read it. Is that why? It is just because one person doesn't like the way the discussion regarding the ownership of PTFC goes round and round in circles? 250 pages [this thread and the previous one] of discussion based on conjecture and opinion … very little of it accurate and much of it vindictive, ill-informed, petty, snide, and frankly an embarrassment to the PTFC organisation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 minute ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: Is that why? It is just because one person doesn't like the way the discussion regarding the ownership of PTFC goes round and round in circles? 250 pages [this thread and the previous one] of discussion based on conjecture and opinion … very little of it accurate and much of it vindictive, ill-informed, petty, snide, and frankly an embarrassment to the PTFC organisation. Debate and opinions are embarassing? Jeez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 This one is a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 36 minutes ago, Big Col said: I was referring to Mr Caldwell. Credit to her for recognising time was up for Archibald but disastrous appointment in Caldwell. Agreed but If we had got rid of Archie earlier - like spurs have done with pochittino - we might be in a biter place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 21 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: Is that why? It is just because one person doesn't like the way the discussion regarding the ownership of PTFC goes round and round in circles? 250 pages [this thread and the previous one] of discussion based on conjecture and opinion … very little of it accurate and much of it vindictive, ill-informed, petty, snide, and frankly an embarrassment to the PTFC organisation. Can you point me to a thread on here that doesn’t have conjecture or opinion ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Springburnjag said: Agreed but If we had got rid of Archie earlier - like spurs have done with pochittino - we might be in a biter place Might have ended up getting Caldwell even sooner than we did . Not good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 minute ago, jlsarmy said: Might have ended up getting Caldwell even sooner than we did . Not good We will never know .....but Archie getting to recruit that summer was a disaster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, Springburnjag said: We will never know .....but Archie getting to recruit that summer was a disaster But that was effectively down to Beattie and Maxwell rather than the subject of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Springburnjag said: Absolute theoretical garbage .... literally nothing can happen at the club today if Colin weir doesn’t want it to because he has the control and sets the direction ffs Ok so if there was a major incident at a game only Colin Weir would be responsible - the other Directors would point and say / nothing to do with us - we just do as we are told ? See this is where people lose the reality outside Thistle World - there are rules for a reason - each Director is responsible and accountable - no matter what the shareholding % if what you and JLS are suggesting was to be in any shape or form remotely how any Club operates then there are problems Also what is the point of a Board of Directors if they are just going to follow instructions - why bother with a Board ? Edited November 26, 2019 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok so if there was a major incident at a game only Colin Weir would be responsible - the other Directors would point and say / nothing to do with us - we just do as we are told ? See this is where people lose the reality outside Thistle World - there are rules for a reason - each Director is responsible and accountable - no matter what the shareholding % if what you and JLS are suggesting was to be in any shape or form remotely how any Club operates then there are problems Also what is the point of a Board of Directors if they are just going to follow instructions - why bother with a Board ? JJ , I’ll give you 2 examples of where a Board of Directors followed instructions, Brooks Mileson at Gretna and more recently Steve Dale at Bury Unfortunately these are both extreme circumstances and didn’t end well , but you’ll find even at Celtic, Dermot Desmond is the main shareholder and a lot of the decisions go through him and are ratified by the Board. You don’t buy a 55% shareholding of a Club , set up a new Board of which Colin Weir is part of and stand back and watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 40 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: JJ , I’ll give you 2 examples of where a Board of Directors followed instructions, Brooks Mileson at Gretna and more recently Steve Dale at Bury Unfortunately these are both extreme circumstances and didn’t end well , but you’ll find even at Celtic, Dermot Desmond is the main shareholder and a lot of the decisions go through him and are ratified by the Board. You don’t buy a 55% shareholding of a Club , set up a new Board of which Colin Weir is part of and stand back and watch. Well I would suggest there two very good examples as to why Directors should follow legislation and take personal responsibilty for decisions as ultimately they wont be able to use a defence of I was just following orders as a defence ? Celtic have PLC Board who report to the stock market not Dermott Desmond - they follow the legislation What your arguing is wrong in just about every possible scenario - Directors are accountable in law - if they simply rubber stamp someone elses decisions then they must ask themselves why are they there ? Here is an example a Director holds the Club Stadium Licence who is he responsible to ? The majority shareholder ? That can be multiplied by dozens of legistlative responsibilites - Employment - H&S - Finances are you saying in all these they do as there told ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Well I would suggest there two very good examples as to why Directors should follow legislation and take personal responsibilty for decisions as ultimately they wont be able to use a defence of I was just following orders as a defence ? Celtic have PLC Board who report to the stock market not Dermott Desmond - they follow the legislation What your arguing is wrong in just about every possible scenario - Directors are accountable in law - if they simply rubber stamp someone elses decisions then they must ask themselves why are they there ? Here is an example a Director holds the Club Stadium Licence who is he responsible to ? The majority shareholder ? That can be multiplied by dozens of legistlative responsibilites - Employment - H&S - Finances are you saying in all these they do as there told ? So what you’re really saying it was actually pointless Colin Weir buying a controlling 55% shareholding in the Club as actually he hasn’t any control on what goes on at the Club regarding decisions, financial or the direction we go in even though he is a director as well . Unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: But that was effectively down to Beattie and Maxwell rather than the subject of the thread. You are correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok so if there was a major incident at a game only Colin Weir would be responsible - the other Directors would point and say / nothing to do with us - we just do as we are told ? See this is where people lose the reality outside Thistle World - there are rules for a reason - each Director is responsible and accountable - no matter what the shareholding % if what you and JLS are suggesting was to be in any shape or form remotely how any Club operates then there are problems Also what is the point of a Board of Directors if they are just going to follow instructions - why bother with a Board ? I never said only Colin weir was responsible I said nothing significant can happen unless he agreed Which is obvious nobody said anything about directors not having duties or responsibilities either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 Jordanhill Jag and Springburnjag. I think that you are both right, but arguing about subtly different points. Yes the directors have duties that need to be performed, legally and financially and they can't hide behind the decisions of Colin Weir on the execution of these “basic duties”. I can't see him involved in the health and safety or staffing of the catering, or what colour to paint the turnstiles. However on the more strategic decisions, for example development of the City end, or running at a deficit to build a winning team, or how to implement the Fan ownership model then I do think that he will have a bigger say, despite having just the same rights as any other shareholder. If you have ever been involved in a team trying to organise a night out for Christmas, it will be very similar. Everyone in the team has one voice, it';s just that some manage to shout louder than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springburnjag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Jordanhill Jag and Springburnjag. I think that you are both right, but arguing about subtly different points. Yes the directors have duties that need to be performed, legally and financially and they can't hide behind the decisions of Colin Weir on the execution of these “basic duties”. I can't see him involved in the health and safety or staffing of the catering, or what colour to paint the turnstiles. However on the more strategic decisions, for example development of the City end, or running at a deficit to build a winning team, or how to implement the Fan ownership model then I do think that he will have a bigger say, despite having just the same rights as any other shareholder. If you have ever been involved in a team trying to organise a night out for Christmas, it will be very similar. Everyone in the team has one voice, it';s just that some manage to shout louder than others. Good point dick.....the operational issues you mention should be the responsibility of the ceo.....the board should be looking at more significant issues though they have responsibilities that they need to observe health and safety being one but given we have a majority owner he calls the shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 2:58 AM, Jordanhill Jag said: I 100% agree- but we dont have a Vote on the Model ? I’m sure TFE would welcome a man of your obvious expertise and passion for Thistle. You’ve also obviously got a lot of free time On your hands, so maybe you should spend less time slagging them off and get involved. just a thought. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Springburnjag said: Can you point me to a thread on here that doesn’t have conjecture or opinion ?! There is no problem with opinion and conjecture, but when it is aired in such a bad tempered, bad mannered way you can expect criticism. I try to keep my comments on this forum the same if I was expressing an opinion in a face to face situation, it works for me most of the time! To be honest, I really don't care about the snide comments and vindictiveness made between one poster and another, other than it puts the club in a bad light ….. makes it look like we have a support made up of 'keyboard warriors' and I think we are better than that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 11 hours ago, jlsarmy said: So what you’re really saying it was actually pointless Colin Weir buying a controlling 55% shareholding in the Club as actually he hasn’t any control on what goes on at the Club regarding decisions, financial or the direction we go in even though he is a director as well . Unbelievable He can if he wishes serve notice to remove Directors Our M& A clearly lay out that each Director has an equal say and equal responsibilty for all aspects of Running the Club - which is in line with the Companies Act For anyone to remotely suggest that there can be any other scenario is frankly "unbelievable " its not pick and mix - you are either running the place or you are not - there can be no opt outs or trying to please a Major Shareholder - that means the Board and the Board alone make all decisions - they are formally minuted - the CEO then acts based on the Board Decisions - Not an individuals decisions or anyone outside the Board They have Collective Responsibility and failure to comply with that has consequences - nothwithstanding the fact that unless they are acting as Directors- instead of rubber stamping someones decisions- then what is the point of them being there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 3 hours ago, madcapmilkdrinker said: I’m sure TFE would welcome a man of your obvious expertise and passion for Thistle. You’ve also obviously got a lot of free time On your hands, so maybe you should spend less time slagging them off and get involved. just a thought. Where have I slagged off TFE - also TFE dont run the Club in any shape or form - they did promise that JLo would not be returning so obviously as they have a Director on the Board Im taking them at there Word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Springburnjag said: I never said only Colin weir was responsible I said nothing significant can happen unless he agreed Which is obvious nobody said anything about directors not having duties or responsibilities either So you agree that the Directors and only the Directors run the Club - that No third Party - Shareholder or otherwise has any say in the Running or Decisions of PTFC as to do so would result in no one knowning who is making the decisions ? And that all decisions should be formally minuted at Board Meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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