dl1971 Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: There were half a dozen (or more) posters who were against the consortium form the start who had no trust in same; they criticised everything they did. There was no valid critique only a campaign to undermine consortium bid before any opportunity to get started. It was a barrage from a small group with nothing positive to say. Funnily enough I don't recall you pointing that out at the time. You didn't complain about polarisation of the fans as a result of this. So don't try to feed us any bogus neutrality about your position. The way I look at this is that it is only a small number who are resolutely negative. That is their right of course. The consortium was clearly a very bad idea from a PTFC perspective. I suspect 99.9 % of fans knew this. Most fans will wait and see what happens next and come to a view as events unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, dl1971 said: The way I look at this is that it is only a small number who are resolutely negative. That is their right of course. The consortium was clearly a very bad idea from a PTFC perspective. I suspect 99.9 % of fans knew this. Most fans will wait and see what happens next and come to a view as events unfold. I suspect you are talking shite, and making up statistics. 'Wait and see what happens next' is a brilliant strategy. I'm sure most successful businesses are run exactly along these lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Jag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 16 hours ago, Emsca said: I recall that Dunfermline Jag ( solicitor ) was asked to go on the Inerim Board? Is that correct? If so, Dunfermline Jag- can you let us know what is going on? Has anybody left the Interim Board? Is J Low back involved with the running of the Club? Not asking you to divulge any sensitive information just clarify some points. Thanks I wasn't asked to join the Interim Board and so I cannot answer your questions. I have been asked to join the working group tasked with putting a fans organisation into place to receive the shares in March 2020. I have agreed to do that. I think it's worth making the basic point that everything that happens with PTFC is down to the Interim Board who are responsible in turn to Three Black Cats as the majority shareholder. The working group has nothing to do with the running of the club and I don't expect to have access to any inside info in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: There were half a dozen (or more) posters who were against the consortium form the start who had no trust in same; they criticised everything they did. There was no valid critique only a campaign to undermine consortium bid before any opportunity to get started. It was a barrage from a small group with nothing positive to say. Funnily enough I don't recall you pointing that out at the time. You didn't complain about polarisation of the fans as a result of this. So don't try to feed us any bogus neutrality about your position. There is no comparison. I said from day one that I didn't like the idea of the consortium bid. I didn't want Thistle to be owned by a large consortium which had no previous connection with the club. I knew nothing about the consortium and never claimed to. Nor did I have to, because regardless of their intention I would have been unhappy to see Thistle owned on this basis. My objection was based purely on principle and I made absolutely no attempt to hide this. I explained openly why I felt this way. I also acknowledged that others would feel differently and that that was completely understandable; to some people results are everything; to me there are other things which are important. If people have objections to fan ownership, whether in principle or for practical reasons then let them express this. That, in my view, is a completely valid position to take. It is not the same as undermining the process with rumour, personal slights on the people involved, a constant implied suggestion of inside knowledge that may or may not be real, and ridicule of those who take an opposing view. And I object to your reference to "bogus neutrality". There is nothing false in the position that I have taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, allyo said: There is no comparison. I said from day one that I didn't like the idea of the consortium bid. I didn't want Thistle to be owned by a large consortium which had no previous connection with the club. I knew nothing about the consortium and never claimed to. Nor did I have to, because regardless of their intention I would have been unhappy to see Thistle owned on this basis. My objection was based purely on principle and I made absolutely no attempt to hide this. I explained openly why I felt this way. I also acknowledged that others would feel differently and that that was completely understandable; to some people results are everything; to me there are other things which are important. If people have objections to fan ownership, whether in principle or for practical reasons then let them express this. That, in my view, is a completely valid position to take. It is not the same as undermining the process with rumour, personal slights on the people involved, a constant implied suggestion of inside knowledge that may or may not be real, and ridicule of those who take an opposing view. And I object to your reference to "bogus neutrality". There is nothing false in the position that I have taken. You have just perfectly described some of the TFE position in relation to its critics, but you are unable or unwilling to see that. Some of us can. I don't want Thistle to be owned or directed or influenced by people who I wouldn't trust to run a whelk stall. In some cases the track record is there to see for those who want to : Caldwell's appointment (previous record - 3 wins out of 39 games); various PR disasters (Chesterfield-gate, Doolan-gate) The comparison is perfect. I don't know how I'll sleep tonight worrying about your objection … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Semi, I may only be getting one side of this argument. I don't even know what you're talking about when you refer to "the TFE position in relation to its critics". If I did then maybe I would be able to see it. Regarding the record of the previous chairman, I'm sorry, but the relationship between that and TFE is just part of the rumour and innuendo that I speak of. If TFE is made up of Jacqui Low, Javeajag and Springburn Jag then you have a point. That isn't my understanding. Call me naïve. Anyway, would you prefer if I insulted you back? Edited December 11, 2019 by allyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 I don't give a flying f---, frankly. I would 'prefer' if people would give the Polyanna make-believe world of 'fan ownership' an iota of critical appraisal in the same way that I would 'prefer' it if we had sunshine, clean air, and world peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Semi Nurainen said: I suspect you are talking shite, and making up statistics. 'Wait and see what happens next' is a brilliant strategy. I'm sure most successful businesses are run exactly along these lines. Constructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: I don't give a flying f---, frankly. I would 'prefer' if people would give the Polyanna make-believe world of 'fan ownership' an iota of critical appraisal in the same way that I would 'prefer' it if we had sunshine, clean air, and world peace. Helpful. Cant you debate or discuss in a reasonable manner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: I don't give a flying f---, frankly. I would 'prefer' if people would give the Polyanna make-believe world of 'fan ownership' an iota of critical appraisal in the same way that I would 'prefer' it if we had sunshine, clean air, and world peace. That's how I imagine Finland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, dl1971 said: Helpful. Cant you debate or discuss in a reasonable manner? Funny you didn't ask that when the previous poster attacked individuals on here as 'as undermining the process with rumour, personal slights on the people involved, a constant implied suggestion of inside knowledge that may or may not be real, and ridicule of those who take an opposing view.' I mean funny peculiar, not funny ha-ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 here you are .... I wonder how many of the question masters will actually go..., https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/an-evening-to-explore-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-fan-ownership/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 If I'm critical I'm saying that the notification should include the date. (or am I missing it?) Anyway, next Tuesday. Can't make it, which I'm a bit gutted at. Hopefully it will be well attended and all views will be represented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said: There were half a dozen (or more) posters who were against the consortium form the start who had no trust in same; they criticised everything they did. There was no valid critique only a campaign to undermine consortium bid before any opportunity to get started. It was a barrage from a small group with nothing positive to say. Funnily enough I don't recall you pointing that out at the time. You didn't complain about polarisation of the fans as a result of this. So don't try to feed us any bogus neutrality about your position. Ok I was in that camp ...so factually can you explain 1. what did the consortium do ? to my knowledge they did nothing (!)except bid for 55% of the shares .... no statements , no plans , no fan engagement .... that was part of the problem 2. on what basis was there anything to say positively on the consortium bid ? there was no proposal circulated , no plan jj tried to pretend there was one but couldn’t provide it , No press statements ... literally nada 3 what was there to critique if no information was provided ? well I guess who were the consortium - which was never disclosed (!) except paul conway it later turned out chien lee was never involved , or we could look at their business track record except it wasn’t provided or we could look at Barnsley and when you did it was not good no coherent support for the consortium was ever put forward other than - they were business people as though that in its self meant anything as we all know there are all types of business people - they would run the club at a profit ... I never quite understood why that was intrinsically good as it’s just taking money out the club - they were a better option than fan ownership .... in my view they weren’t even though I’ve never been that keen on it we are now where we are and we need to make the best of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 hours ago, allyo said: Semi, I may only be getting one side of this argument. I don't even know what you're talking about when you refer to "the TFE position in relation to its critics". If I did then maybe I would be able to see it. Regarding the record of the previous chairman, I'm sorry, but the relationship between that and TFE is just part of the rumour and innuendo that I speak of. If TFE is made up of Jacqui Low, Javeajag and Springburn Jag then you have a point. That isn't my understanding. Call me naïve. Anyway, would you prefer if I insulted you back? Can I just clarify for the 100th time that I have no connection to, involvement with or knowledge of TFE other than looking at their Facebook page I know this doesn’t suit some people but it is the truth , I have always had reservations on fan ownership but given the choice between that and the consortium it was the better choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, javeajag said: here you are .... I wonder how many of the question masters will actually go..., https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/an-evening-to-explore-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-fan-ownership/ Myself and 2 companions from Stirling Albion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Myself and 2 companions from Stirling Albion Great....let us know what’s said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 Having admitted to being very cynical about fan ownership, only fair that I go along and find out more. Tickets booked. Are we twinning this with the forum Christmas night out?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, javeajag said: Great....let us know what’s said Will do, but it’ll be next morning as I’ve Scream gig straight after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 Saw this on another forum “The Club doesn’t own the Stadium clean and free. Three Black Cats owns the entirety of the Bing and the Main Stand. In fact, since Firhill Developments Limited no longer owns those parts of the ground, and the Club was a major shareholder *in Firhill Developments*, the Club technically has a financial stake in *less* of the stadium now than it did a month ago” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Saw this on another forum “The Club doesn’t own the Stadium clean and free. Three Black Cats owns the entirety of the Bing and the Main Stand. In fact, since Firhill Developments Limited no longer owns those parts of the ground, and the Club was a major shareholder *in Firhill Developments*, the Club technically has a financial stake in *less* of the stadium now than it did a month ago” I think that’s sort of right .....though clearly 3BC own the club and therefore own all of Firhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think that’s sort of right .....though clearly 3BC own the club and therefore own all of Firhill Has the title deeds been transferred back to the club yet? As was promised within 7 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Has the title deeds been transferred back to the club yet? As was promised within 7 days? Don’t know the answer to that .....I do know the money from Colin weir was in the relevant bank accounts the morning after the deal was announced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, Big Col said: Having admitted to being very cynical about fan ownership, only fair that I go along and find out more. Tickets booked. Are we twinning this with the forum Christmas night out?? Any info on what is said would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Will do, but it’ll be next morning as I’ve Scream gig straight after 2am will do......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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