jaf Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: If jaf is right then what they suggested was perhaps the best option for the spfl 1. Can't release money on loans incase sponsors want money back at a later date 2. Can't null and void as that will piss of UEFA and may also cause the sponsors to demand money back 3. Can't reorganise the leagues as SPL sides wouldn't support it (dilute the prize money) and TV deal may need to be renegotiated 4. Can't have clubs changing their YES to NO as that would again need money to be recalled from clubs who have already spent it 5. Clubs need the money now, not 28 days, hence the short deadline. Perhaps this is incompetence rather than corruption, but if so it is incompetence on a grand scale and heads must roll. Even clubs that voted YES can't be happy as they are not going to get the much needed cash for some time now. Even if Dundee change their vote, there will be a court injunction to block the payments before the e-mail arrives with the SPFL. Why can't I be this articulate? Exactly what I have been trying to say! I can understand the invidious position the directors of SPFL have found themselves in. They ought to have been much more transparent much earlier of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, jaf said: Correct, we don't know (but we also don't know the quality nor compelling nature of the Rangers evidence but you are keen to take that at face value before seeing it?), but one of the duties of a director is to protect the stakeholders. Whilst uncertainty exists (especially against a backdrop of the SPFL being technically insolvent), I can see how those directors are in a difficult position. And one way of removing some of the uncertainty was calling the season complete. That doesn't mean they have handled it well, or its the right decision, just I can understand why they would pursue that agenda. Where did I mention the rangers resolution ? there were according to hearts 6 options circulated .....on 5 the spfl board gave the reasons against on one they gave no reasons against and only reasons for it would be fairly easy to explain the issues you mention but they haven’t why ? the latest is that the Dundee vote got stopped in the spfl firewall as it was a pdf attachment .....yes I bet Dundee were the only club to send a pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: What Rangers posted if false could be classed as libelous so I’m sure (and have heard) they have something. Yeah, here's a reminder of the professional guy who would never get anything wrong who issued that statement : https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/footage-emerges-rangers-new-pr-21705124 https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18312936.neil-cameron-jim-traynors-replacement-david-graham-pr-disaster-rangers/ Edited April 13, 2020 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Meanwhile the Herald are sticking the boot into ICT chairman today for allegedly missing out, what it says, is a key sentence on the chat with Dundee. Seems the tentacles of the SPFL spread far and wide - perhaps the Herald should be a bit more objective & be all over the SPFL like a rash - perhaps it's them who lack credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: If jaf is right then what they suggested was perhaps the best option for the spfl 1. Can't release money on loans incase sponsors want money back at a later date 2. Can't null and void as that will piss of UEFA and may also cause the sponsors to demand money back 3. Can't reorganise the leagues as SPL sides wouldn't support it (dilute the prize money) and TV deal may need to be renegotiated 4. Can't have clubs changing their YES to NO as that would again need money to be recalled from clubs who have already spent it 5. Clubs need the money now, not 28 days, hence the short deadline. Perhaps this is incompetence rather than corruption, but if so it is incompetence on a grand scale and heads must roll. Even clubs that voted YES can't be happy as they are not going to get the much needed cash for some time now. Even if Dundee change their vote, there will be a court injunction to block the payments before the e-mail arrives with the SPFL. 1. Get sponsors to clarify and circulate to clubs along with 2 3 probably correct but needs to be clearly clarified 4. the spfl can amend their rules it’s a members organisation and no money has yet been distributed 5. Change the rules and distribute a prudent amount of cash now 70-80 % the email won’t arrive..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: it would be fairly easy to explain the issues you mention but they haven’t why ? Oh, that's a difficult one, let me think Perhaps so the next time they have a sponsorship or TV contract to negotiate, they are not starting from a position where the people on the other side of the negotiation are saying 'Whats changed since April 2020 when it was widely reported you had insolvency concerns. Why should we give you x up front. You need us more than we need you so this is now our offer.' Perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, jaf said: Oh, that's a difficult one, let me think Perhaps so the next time they have a sponsorship or TV contract to negotiate, they are not starting from a position where the people on the other side of the negotiation are saying 'Whats changed since April 2020 when it was widely reported you had insolvency concerns. Why should we give you x up front. You need us more than we need you so this is now our offer.' Perhaps? Tbh....I think your pushing hypotheticals a bit far now ......how long has the spfl been technically insolvent ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Pity in a way yon petition was started by a Rangers fan. It would carry so much more weight had it been initiated by a fan of a club of a more neutral persuasion. Even so it's just surpassed the 20000 mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: Meanwhile the Herald are sticking the boot into ICT chairman today for allegedly missing out, what it says, is a key sentence on the chat with Dundee. Seems the tentacles of the SPFL spread far and wide - perhaps the Herald should be a bit more objective & be all over the SPFL like a rash - perhaps it's them who lack credibility. There's also another rumour going round about his motivations in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, jaf said: There's also another rumour going round about his motivations in all of this. I guess we will never know everyone’s motivations but we do know Dundee voted , sent an email which never arrived then did arrive and then they said treat it as though we never sent it and now no one knits what’s going on this script outline was written by Groucho Marx .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jaf said: There's also another rumour going round about his motivations in all of this. which is? Edited April 13, 2020 by gianlucatoni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: Meanwhile the Herald are sticking the boot into ICT chairman today for allegedly missing out, what it says, is a key sentence on the chat with Dundee. Seems the tentacles of the SPFL spread far and wide - perhaps the Herald should be a bit more objective & be all over the SPFL like a rash - perhaps it's them who lack credibility. The herald don’t say what the missing sentence is so I’m nit sure what point they are making....they do assert the pdf attachment didn’t get past the firewall as the big pin in the conspiracy balloon.....so we are to believe... 1. the Dundee pdf did indeed get stuck in the firewall 2. no other club voted using a pdf 3. if another club did use a pdf it got through it’s utterly ludicrous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, javeajag said: Tbh....I think your pushing hypotheticals a bit far now ......how long has the spfl been technically insolvent ? They wouldn’t/ shouldn’t be allowed to trade if they were knowingly insolvent, especially with such a high profile company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: The herald don’t say what the missing sentence is so I’m nit sure what point they are making....they do assert the pdf attachment didn’t get past the firewall as the big pin in the conspiracy balloon.....so we are to believe... 1. the Dundee pdf did indeed get stuck in the firewall 2. no other club voted using a pdf 3. if another club did use a pdf it got through it’s utterly ludicrous What business in their right mind would set up a firewall to block a pdf. It is one of the standard document formats used by business. If nothing else then the SPFL IT Manager should be sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: They wouldn’t/ shouldn’t be allowed to trade if they were knowingly insolvent, especially with such a high profile company. Their assets are exceeded by their liabilities at their Balance Sheet date by more than £300,000. You can check that on Companies House if you don't believe me. And lots of companies continue to trade in that position - however it does influence how the directors act, or it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, javeajag said: this script outline was written by Groucho Marx .... ....without the sanity clause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said: What business in their right mind would set up a firewall to block a pdf. It is one of the standard document formats used by business. If nothing else then the SPFL IT Manager should be sacked. No business would do that it’s clearly a red herring.....the attachment would have to be huge and a voting slip isn’t .....and Dundee were the only club in 42 to use a pdf that doesn’t bear scrutiny either .....pdf is the most common attachment format I would only believe it if I saw an independent IT audit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, jaf said: Their assets are exceeded by their liabilities at their Balance Sheet date by more than £300,000. You can check that on Companies House if you don't believe me. And lots of companies continue to trade in that position - however it does influence how the directors act, or it should. Didn’t stop sponsors signing up previously though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: No business would do that it’s clearly a red herring.....the attachment would have to be huge and a voting slip isn’t .....and Dundee were the only club in 42 to use a pdf that doesn’t bear scrutiny either .....pdf is the most common attachment format I would only believe it if I saw an independent IT audit of course it's bollocks - the SPFL are clearly of the opinion that they won't be investigated in any meaningful way so they have the latitude to say any old bollocks they wish Edited April 13, 2020 by gianlucatoni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, javeajag said: Didn’t stop sponsors signing up previously though There is a difference between publicly telling people you are taking an action because of concerns about solvency, and what your accounts say. Perhaps you think being a director of an insolvent entity is a triviality. A perfect example of this would be RBS, as soon as confidence was lost, it caused a domino impact onto the solvency of the business. Anyway, I am just trying to provide context instead of all the gleeful conspiracy theories. We are dealing in 'least bad' outcomes now, that's for sure. But I've got work to do, so will go and do that so you can have the floor again to peddle your stuff without challenge...…………... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: of course it's bollocks - the SPFL are clearly of the opinion that they won't be investigated in any meaningful way so they have the latitude to say any old bollocks they wish McCoist is advocating a forensic computer tech to sort it out , not sure that’s going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, jaf said: There is a difference between publicly telling people you are taking an action because of concerns about solvency, and what your accounts say. Perhaps you think being a director of an insolvent entity is a triviality. A perfect example of this would be RBS, as soon as confidence was lost, it caused a domino impact onto the solvency of the business. Anyway, I am just trying to provide context instead of all the gleeful conspiracy theories. We are dealing in 'least bad' outcomes now, that's for sure. But I've got work to do, so will go and do that so you can have the floor again to peddle your stuff without challenge...…………... not sure why you are being so nasty maybe because your working in Easter Monday .... your Points refer to the front end of this process not the voting process where clearly something is not right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: McCoist is advocating a forensic computer tech to sort it out , not sure that’s going to happen In sure that would be an integral part of any proper investigation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 50 minutes ago, javeajag said: The herald don’t say what the missing sentence is so I’m nit sure what point they are making....they do assert the pdf attachment didn’t get past the firewall as the big pin in the conspiracy balloon.....so we are to believe... 1. the Dundee pdf did indeed get stuck in the firewall 2. no other club voted using a pdf 3. if another club did use a pdf it got through it’s utterly ludicrous Thistle's voting form appears to be a pdf. Which suggests that it was a) sent out as a pdf b) returned by us as a pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeWriterJag Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 How about this for a plot? Dundee hold out their vote/non-vote as long as possible. Rangers go bust again, but given past performance are allowed to join League Two again. Hearts still relegated due to annoying the SPFL and Dundee prompted for getting Doncaster out of a hole. SPFL forget to relegate Thistle and Stranraer and everyone lives happily ever after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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