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Anniesland Jag

Return to Stadiums in September

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5 hours ago, javeajag said:

interesting developments in Sweden with 1200 new cases since Friday and 5 new deaths 
 

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/sweden-considers-stockholm-restrictions-as-covid-cases-rise-1018682.html

This isn’t mentioned in the Svensk Aftenblad’s or Dagblads today or Norwegian papers

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Think we all need to get a reality check , the restrictions will cause more harm economically and also other health and mental health issues .

It’s not going away anytime soon and the fallout from this will be beyond belief.

Sad though it is the average age of deaths from Covid is 82 years of age in Scotland and possibly some of these could have been avoided if the Governments had got the Care Homes right.

Totally agree with this. The virus isn’t going away anytime soon and it will have further drastic impact of sectors such as the economy if we carry on going in and out of lockdowns for the next 12-18 months.

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3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Numbers haven’t doubled in previous weeks either in UK or Europe so why should they now?

I can use the same model and predict Brian Graham will score 200 goals this season 

Are you denying that there has been significant increases in the number of people testing positive and being admitted to hospital ?  I think from Monday to Wednesday Scotland’s cases have gone from just under 300 to 500.

Get your head out the sand ! What is your suggestion as to the way forward ?

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Just now, Lenziejag said:

Are you denying that there has been significant increases in the number of people testing positive and being admitted to hospital ?  I think from Monday to Wednesday Scotland’s cases have gone from just under 300 to 500.

Get your head out the sand ! What is your suggestion as to the way forward ?

How many have symptoms or are false positives or old trace?

Positive tests aren’t a pandemic (by definition in WHO) symptoms, illness and death are

We have just announced that effectively grandparents cannot see their families in their own house for 6 more months. 
 

Cancer screening cancelled again, fear installed and mental health issues rising.

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6 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Do we know what works ? 

As far as the 50,000 is concerned, they said it was a simple extrapolation based on a 7 day doubling of cases. 4,000 a day cases this week, 8,000 next week, 16,000 the week after etc . It only takes a month to get to 50,000 cases a day - which is what they said - or am I missing something?

This virus has killed almost 1M people worldwide. 

So, approximately 0.014% of the population, worldwide.

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2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

How many have symptoms or are false positives or old trace?

Positive tests aren’t a pandemic (by definition in WHO) symptoms, illness and death are

We have just announced that effectively grandparents cannot see their families in their own house for 6 more months. 
 

Cancer screening cancelled again, fear installed and mental health issues rising.

You tell me how many are false positives ?

Hospitalisations and deaths are increasing. 
Who said 6 months ? The restrictions in Scotland will be reviewed in 3 weeks. Whether they are extended is up to us. It isn’t up to anybody else.

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52 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

You tell me how many are false positives ?

Hospitalisations and deaths are increasing. 
Who said 6 months ? The restrictions in Scotland will be reviewed in 3 weeks. Whether they are extended is up to us. It isn’t up to anybody else.

Apparently a lot, especially if you compare football as a bench mark, but government doesn’t show us that nor do they show their data, except a graph based on “if it doubles” what if it halves or trebles or levels?

BoJo stated 6 months, Holyrood won’t do anything less, and as for reviewing every 3 weeks this is never debated publicly in any parliament its a decision taken behind closed doors with a small sample of advisers and communicated to parliament and public.

25000 out of 5 million have tested positive (not all been sick) in 6 months, that’s it

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15 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Apparently a lot, especially if you compare football as a bench mark, but government doesn’t show us that nor do they show their data, except a graph based on “if it doubles” what if it halves or trebles or levels?

BoJo stated 6 months, Holyrood won’t do anything less, and as for reviewing every 3 weeks this is never debated publicly in any parliament its a decision taken behind closed doors with a small sample of advisers and communicated to parliament and public.

25000 out of 5 million have tested positive (not all been sick) in 6 months, that’s it

Don't want to defend Boris, but what he said was "COULD last six months"

And the reason that it is not debated publicly is that parliament (Westminster) handed over the powers for the cabinet to take action without debate right at the start of the first lockdown.

Edited by Dick Dastardly

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What Scotland is trying to do is keep education and NHS services running as near normal as possible over the period between Now and March. It doesn't get much attention in the media but the mix in rise of covid and the approaching flu season is whats really scaring the Scottish Government and the UK government medical advisors. So the moves to implement restrictions are solely about restricting the spread of covid through the population its also to stop the spread of flu/colds.

Since the schools went back the rise in covid test requests are in part because kids are picking up illnesses and flu's that they weren't exposed to but which give them symptons similar to covid. So actually a symptomatic person getting a negative test actually indicates a cold or flu. Banning households meeting starts to make sense if you think about how the kids get a cold/flu and bring it back home rather tha only thinking about covid.

If the furlough scheme was extended I would have expected the Scottish Government to close restaurants and bars as they can see that would like to stop any mixing of the population outside of schools and essential services so they can keep them running over the winter. The fact that we can't make public health decisions that could save lifes because we don't have the power to make a financial decision is bizarre.

You can expect to see quite a visible and aggressive flu vacination programme appearing shortly. This is again to maximise available beds in acute settings. The health service could probably cope with one or other on its own but both together could easily get overwhelmed. As far as I understand it is entirely possible to have both covid and flu at the same time or back to back and I can't imagine the odds of survival are high so its possible that the second wave coming near flu season will be more deadly than the first.

The fact that postive tests are picking up but hospital admissions and deaths are not is more to do with the age of the people being infected. At this moment its mainly younger people (i.e. school kids, teachers, essential workers) shortly these people will infect the older generation unless people stop mixing and that is when Hospital admissions and Deaths will start to climb. Quite how bad it will be is impossible to know as the wave early this year did not have the same potential mix of seasonal flu mixed with it and you would hope a few lessons have been learnt so infection rates and death rates from the first wave should not be used as an estimate for the next wave.

Regarding Mental Health. Lockdown was and is terrible for those that have poor mental health and hard enough for those that have good mental health. One of the main contributors to that scenario was also being couped up with the kids and not being able to keep them occupied. So to a certain degree trying to keep the schools open is also an effort to minise the damage to mental health.

I suspect that they will also try to keep football games on tv but behind closed doors as they have recognised that watching football helps with Mental Health. I suspect the same will be true for other sports and in general the Scottish Government will be keen people still play sport. How clubs survive on tha income is unknown and if the furlough scheme comes back I can see alll leagues bar the premier league being postponed as clubs furlough to reduce costs.

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37 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Apparently a lot, especially if you compare football as a bench mark, but government doesn’t show us that nor do they show their data, except a graph based on “if it doubles” what if it halves or trebles or levels?

BoJo stated 6 months, Holyrood won’t do anything less, and as for reviewing every 3 weeks this is never debated publicly in any parliament its a decision taken behind closed doors with a small sample of advisers and communicated to parliament and public.

25000 out of 5 million have tested positive (not all been sick) in 6 months, that’s it

That’s so far and over 4,000 have died - that’s a pretty high ratio. Also we are just about to enter autumn/winter when infections of other illnesses increase. I find it really hard to understand what your concerns are, and what motivation do they have in restricting business and social gatherings in every country in the world just about ?

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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

That’s so far and over 4,000 have died - that’s a pretty high ratio. Also we are just about to enter autumn/winter when infections of other illnesses increase. I find it really hard to understand what your concerns are, and what motivation do they have in restricting business and social gatherings in every country in the world just about ?

There needs to be support for the business community be that in Hospitality or even Football Clubs as an example , IMO it’s morally wrong to inflict these restrictions without actually backing it up with help financially, other countries continue to support businesses whether that’s been an extension of the furlough scheme in Germany for example .

Jason Leitch was asked to back up his stats re Hospitality last night , he couldn’t 

The Hospitality sector has become a convenient scapegoat even though the majority are being stringent in how they are adapting, everyone knew when schools and universities returned there would be an upsurge in cases and spread.

Business has been the fall guy yet again with little thought to the business owners and their employees.

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34 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

There needs to be support for the business community be that in Hospitality or even Football Clubs as an example , IMO it’s morally wrong to inflict these restrictions without actually backing it up with help financially, other countries continue to support businesses whether that’s been an extension of the furlough scheme in Germany for example .

Jason Leitch was asked to back up his stats re Hospitality last night , he couldn’t 

The Hospitality sector has become a convenient scapegoat even though the majority are being stringent in how they are adapting, everyone knew when schools and universities returned there would be an upsurge in cases and spread.

Business has been the fall guy yet again with little thought to the business owners and their employees.

He was asked for %, which he didn’t have but stated that the results of track & trace showed the house parties and hospitality were the 2 main areas. What do you suggest should be done to curb the spread ?

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20 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

He was asked for %, which he didn’t have but stated that the results of track & trace showed the house parties and hospitality were the 2 main areas. What do you suggest should be done to curb the spread ?

I wouldn’t have asked students back to University, their courses should have been done online if possible 

Children at school can’t social distance , that’s the demographic of where the spread is coming from.

With business, you’re putting at risk your total infrastructure of your society , and the fall out from that is incomparable in comparison to adding another year on to a child’s development or making a degree at University a year longer .

Re Jason Leitch , he couldn’t back up his claim re Hospitality with Stats or Numbers , if they made such monumental decisions as of yesterday at least they should have backed it up with numbers and stats before they made their decision.

Edited by jlsarmy

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27 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

He was asked for %, which he didn’t have but stated that the results of track & trace showed the house parties and hospitality were the 2 main areas. What do you suggest should be done to curb the spread ?

Restrict houses to 2 families only with maximum 8 people. Then families can meet, parents can see their adult kids, and grandparents can see the grandkids.

This is how Scandinavia has done it, the number of visitors rises and falls but your always allowed to see at least 2.

My parents are 79, not seen me or my daughter since February, didn’t see the other 2 grandchildren for months now with prospect of not seeing them, except from the end of the garden for more months now.

My Dads passions are the family, his football, pottering around garden centers at his leisure  and meeting his brother for a couple (and it is a couple) of pints on a Friday. He can’t do any of these now, to go to a pub, he needs to mask up to get on a bus to hopefully get a table in the pub, garden centers are no longer leisurely, he states your herded through like a sheep through a pen, stop too long and people complain and god forbid you go against the arrows, Firhill isn’t open, and family can’t visit. I’ve never heard him so depressed, my Mums just as bad. To be effectively removed from your loves in life is causing massive damage not only to folk like my parents but youngsters as well. 

The basic human rights are gone, and these restrictions actually contradict Article 8 of European Convention on Human Rights but no one bats an eye as a big graph appears on screen with loads of red.

 

Strange COVID resurgence this week when last week BoJo was under pressure for threatening to break international law and Sturgeon under pressure based on her husband pressuring police to pursue Salmond. 

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20 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Strange COVID resurgence this week when last week BoJo was under pressure for threatening to break international law and Sturgeon under pressure based on her husband pressuring police to pursue Salmond. 

I don't think it's a coincidence that vote to extend emergency powers is in a few days just as things would appear to be getting much worse again. Fortunately there are a lot of MPs who seem to not have fallen for Monday's presentation and are still intending to do everything they can to block them being extended.

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29 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Restrict houses to 2 families only with maximum 8 people. Then families can meet, parents can see their adult kids, and grandparents can see the grandkids.

This is how Scandinavia has done it, the number of visitors rises and falls but your always allowed to see at least 2.

My parents are 79, not seen me or my daughter since February, didn’t see the other 2 grandchildren for months now with prospect of not seeing them, except from the end of the garden for more months now.

My Dads passions are the family, his football, pottering around garden centers at his leisure  and meeting his brother for a couple (and it is a couple) of pints on a Friday. He can’t do any of these now, to go to a pub, he needs to mask up to get on a bus to hopefully get a table in the pub, garden centers are no longer leisurely, he states your herded through like a sheep through a pen, stop too long and people complain and god forbid you go against the arrows, Firhill isn’t open, and family can’t visit. I’ve never heard him so depressed, my Mums just as bad. To be effectively removed from your loves in life is causing massive damage not only to folk like my parents but youngsters as well. 

The basic human rights are gone, and these restrictions actually contradict Article 8 of European Convention on Human Rights but no one bats an eye as a big graph appears on screen with loads of red.

 

Strange COVID resurgence this week when last week BoJo was under pressure for threatening to break international law and Sturgeon under pressure based on her husband pressuring police to pursue Salmond. 

And how does this conspiracy fit in with all the other countries around the world where Covid is on the rise and their governments are taking similar action. May be all the world leaders got on a big zoom call to agree to clamping down on their pesky voters

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4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

And how does this conspiracy fit in with all the other countries around the world where Covid is on the rise and their governments are taking similar action. May be all the world leaders got on a big zoom call to agree to clamping down on their pesky voters

13% of Madrid (850000) have restrictions on movement. France hasn’t announced anything but it’s likely to be local, Germany is going to put its Christmas markets in stadiums to monitor better, Sweden has announced none, Norway has limited to 8 people in homes in Oslo and Bergen, Czech is closing bars at 10 and limiting numbers.

Scotland is stopping families visit each other across the whole country. 

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

13% of Madrid (850000) have restrictions on movement. France hasn’t announced anything but it’s likely to be local, Germany is going to put its Christmas markets in stadiums to monitor better, Sweden has announced none, Norway has limited to 8 people in homes in Oslo and Bergen, Czech is closing bars at 10 and limiting numbers.

Scotland is stopping families visit each other across the whole country. 

Israel has a total national lock down

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3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Israel has a total national lock down

Most of Europe doesn’t so what’s your point?

Just by the reasoning currently I can’t be in my parents house, just the 3 of us.

I can though drive to theirs, meet them outside, walk together to the bus stop get a public bus to Asda with strangers, take my mums arm walk through the supermarket with more strangers, go to the cafe, be served by strangers then get the filthy bus home to theirs before I leave them at the garden. 
 

You think that is reasoned and sensible?

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Restrict houses to 2 families only with maximum 8 people. Then families can meet, parents can see their adult kids, and grandparents can see the grandkids.

This is how Scandinavia has done it, the number of visitors rises and falls but your always allowed to see at least 2.

My parents are 79, not seen me or my daughter since February, didn’t see the other 2 grandchildren for months now with prospect of not seeing them, except from the end of the garden for more months now.

My Dads passions are the family, his football, pottering around garden centers at his leisure  and meeting his brother for a couple (and it is a couple) of pints on a Friday. He can’t do any of these now, to go to a pub, he needs to mask up to get on a bus to hopefully get a table in the pub, garden centers are no longer leisurely, he states your herded through like a sheep through a pen, stop too long and people complain and god forbid you go against the arrows, Firhill isn’t open, and family can’t visit. I’ve never heard him so depressed, my Mums just as bad. To be effectively removed from your loves in life is causing massive damage not only to folk like my parents but youngsters as well. 

The basic human rights are gone, and these restrictions actually contradict Article 8 of European Convention on Human Rights but no one bats an eye as a big graph appears on screen with loads of red.

 

Strange COVID resurgence this week when last week BoJo was under pressure for threatening to break international law and Sturgeon under pressure based on her husband pressuring police to pursue Salmond. 

We tried the 2 family rule - cases still rising. We are all having to sacrifice. Some have sacrificed more than just seeing family.  Most people think that until we have a better understanding of what this virus can and will do accept some restrictions.  Your last paragraph - wow. What about the other hundred odd countries in the world.

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48 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We tried the 2 family rule - cases still rising. We are all having to sacrifice. Some have sacrificed more than just seeing family.  Most people think that until we have a better understanding of what this virus can and will do accept some restrictions.  Your last paragraph - wow. What about the other hundred odd countries in the world.

Every country has got to based on real time , the Scottish Government falls down because it implements these decisions with at this moment very little to back it up , the SG have made these decisions and now have to go cap in hand to the UK government to try and get financial handouts or borrowing powers .

Surely that should have been sorted before the restrictions took place .

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8 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Every country has got to based on real time , the Scottish Government falls down because it implements these decisions with at this moment very little to back it up , the SG have made these decisions and now have to go cap in hand to the UK government to try and get financial handouts or borrowing powers .

Surely that should have been sorted before the restrictions took place .

The fundamental problem is the UK Government is a mess. They can't afford furlough because Brexit is already going to knacker the economy in the early part of next year. So they tried to get everyone back to work and hope covid would go away over the summer by itself and there would be no second wave.

If you remember back at the start of the outbreak in February there was an attempt by Bojo and his pals to push a herd immunity approach. That was again an attempt to run away from the hard work of actually dealing with the problem because they don't have the funds to do this properly without delaying Brexit.

Its not just SG that are asking for furlough to be extended. The Welsh and Northern Ireland Government have been asking for it for some time. I think Whitty and Valances presentation were an attempt to force Boris to extend furlough and implement more serious measures in England. However in the current constitutional arrangement if Boris says no and chooses to ignore his own scientific advisors then Scotland ,Wales and Northern Ireland get dragged of the same cliff edge.

Everyone has asked why Nicola Strurgeon made the changes in Scotland and what her scientific advice was that said this was the right approach. However no-one has questioned why Boris chose to go for a diluted set of measures? What scientific advise or data does he have that says he doesn't need to implement more controls? Does he have any scientific advise to back up his approach or does whatever Dominic Cummings say matter more than public health professionals? Surely a PM ignoring scientific advise is more of a worry than a first minister taking a cautious view of what her scientific advisors are telling her?

For example what scientific advice do you think backs up the following approach?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/chauffeur-driven-cars-exempt-from-covid19-rules-93846.

 

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Not commented for a while. As I wearily make my way through the pseudo scientists and amateur politicians I remain aghast that world leaders dont simply ask those intelligensa on this forum to design our world. Would save a fortune on consultants but may of course be the end of mankind as we know it. Stick to the fitba boys would be my advice. 

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