stolenscone Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 54 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: I fear that with mounting fan discontent, financial pressures on individual incomes increasing, and a long road ahead before we see the sunny uplands, that tge club will fall into severe financial difficulties and be faced with a Save the Jags fund 2. May I take this opportunity to praise the efforts of all TJF board for their professionalism, hard work, endurance, pragmatism and fortitude On the first point: imposing financial sanctions on a football club that we all hold dear has always struck me as an act of self harm. If you trust the structure of the Foundation, and the integrity of those on its board, then it strikes me that funds which would otherwise be withheld from the club could instead be passed to the Foundation, with an understanding that an engaged and professionally run supporters' organisation could be trusted to channel the funds back to the club once its membership felt that the club was once again suitable for receiving it. That would at least avoid a permanent leaching away of funds that no club in our position can afford to lose. I guess it's something that could be discussed at the EGM. On the second passage that I have quoted: I wanted to thank Sandy, Graeme, Andrew and the others for the time and commitment that they have shown as volunteers. I hope that they are prepared to stay on and continue to work for a better future for our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) Assuming the preferred recipient of the shares are something to do with the jags trust, can anyone tell me how many members they have. Be good to know how many trustees members are also on the TJF? Edited August 9, 2022 by dl1971 Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 "If we fail to do the impossible, we shall be faced with the unthinkable" (Murray Bookchin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 32 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Assuming the preferred recipient of the shares are something to do with the jags trust, can anyone tell me how many members they have. Be good to know how many trustees members are also on the TJF? re not the Jags Trust but the other Trust. I seem to mind something along the lines of all adult ST holders that had held a ST for at least 3 years (?) at a certain date (maybe about 4 year ago?) were automatically members. If that's the case the "not the Jags Trust" Trust can claim to be representing a membership of I imagine well over 1000. Some clarification may be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 Denis - there is probably not much to be gained by looking backwards. Things are where they are. The only thing that matters is what happens from here on. I for one am not going to try to make any supporter feel guilty because they do or don't choose to do something. For those who do wish to take some action, then it's up to each of us to decide what we can contribute, individually and collectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 minute ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: re not the Jags Trust but the other Trust. I seem to mind something along the lines of all adult ST holders that had held a ST for at least 3 years (?) at a certain date (maybe about 4 year ago?) were automatically members. If that's the case the "not the Jags Trust" Trust can claim to be representing a membership of I imagine well over 1000. Some clarification may be required. LIB - you can't properly represent someone who you have never spoken to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 hours ago, alexander livingstone said: I sure there were Shands on the board years ago,if this is correct is this Peter Shands part if the same family or am I mistaken Never been any Shands on the Board that Im aware of ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) Still raging. We have been badly let down by 3BC. The PTFC Trust will never represent me. Seriously thinking of chucking it for this season if that’s the way it pans out. It’s either that or we take direct action (STJ2). I’ll look north for the matches to watch. At least the games in the Highland League are solely about football, with teams rooted in their communities. They don’t have the same political machinations at Club Board level and the fans are trusted as an integral part of the whole set-up. It’s like how football used to be before Chairs had ego’s. Edited August 9, 2022 by sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 32 minutes ago, stolenscone said: LIB - you can't properly represent someone who you have never spoken to. Realise that but I wouldn't be surprised if the Trust in question claim they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 Oh and well said @Garscube Road End 2, sorry out of likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Never been any Shands on the Board that Im aware of ? @Jordanhill Jag, what do you make of these developments? I’d genuinely be interested to know what you think needs done now. Edited August 9, 2022 by sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael m Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 44 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Never been any Shands on the Board that Im aware of ? Peter Shand was Chairman when Ken Bates was investing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, michael m said: Peter Shand was Chairman when Ken Bates was investing It's definitely not the same chap. I have no idea whether they are related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael m Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, stolenscone said: It's definitely not the same chap. I have no idea whether they are related. Definitely not the same chap as the former chairman is long deceased! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: We have prepared a document, which more fully sets out how the discussions with Three Black Cats played out between our election in late May and the rejection meeting last night. It's a long read, but it's a necessary read. And it's part of our promise to you for transparency and accountability. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/fan-ownership-or-sham-ownership-you-decide/ Thanks for this and all the efforts you and the others put into this. I held off joining TJF for personal reasons but hoped you would succeed in your endeavours in the professional manner you were obviously demonstrating. Reading through your document, section 9.4 (fundraising) was really telling for me. This smells of control being the most important thing to the current incumbents. Having had a season ticket for the majority of the last 30 years, got my kids into following the club, sponsored the club and taken hospitality over many years I find myself wishing I'd never renewed this year or spent the 50 odd quid on Saturday for various bits and pieces around the stadium. I will join the 'not a penny more' group despite the pain it causes me - 100% because of the contempt dripping from the current members. Thistle, as a club, used to feel special. Open and welcoming with so many of those involved wanting to go the extra mile for fans, and look for their active involvement. I don't know these people, but the clearly don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Peter Shand was chairman when he brought John Lambie to Thistle in his first spell. And I am sure the family owned the Ashfield dog track. Different Shand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, Mr Scruff said: Thanks for this and all the efforts you and the others put into this. I held off joining TJF for personal reasons but hoped you would succeed in your endeavours in the professional manner you were obviously demonstrating. Reading through your document, section 9.4 (fundraising) was really telling for me. This smells of control being the most important thing to the current incumbents. Having had a season ticket for the majority of the last 30 years, got my kids into following the club, sponsored the club and taken hospitality over many years I find myself wishing I'd never renewed this year or spent the 50 odd quid on Saturday for various bits and pieces around the stadium. I will join the 'not a penny more' group despite the pain it causes me - 100% because of the contempt dripping from the current members. Thistle, as a club, used to feel special. Open and welcoming with so many of those involved wanting to go the extra mile for fans, and look for their active involvement. I don't know these people, but the clearly don't care. I’d encourage you to join The Jags Foundation. The larger the membership the stronger the voice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: I’d encourage you to join The Jags Foundation. The larger the membership the stronger the voice This. It’s the only game in town. We just need some cahones for what happens next. Money talks so ‘not a penny more’ has the potential to make a difference. Short-term pain for longer-term gain. Certain charlatans at Club Board level need to go and not let the door hit their arse on the way out. cc @marcia blaine Edited August 9, 2022 by sandy who cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Jag II Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 I see that the successful bidder is crawling into the light before the ICT match. It'll be interesting to see Low's preferred partner. It seems to me predjucial to kill off the TJF bid, whilst still in legal negotiations with the supposed successful choice. As Devil's Advocate, what if by some quirk those legal negotiations fail? I know that is extremely unlikely, but in real life it would be a possibility. Also strange that even clubs like Morton get a weekly 5 figure sum from their members, but our club is so sure of success that the Board can knock back a similar(& rising) sum? TJF members sure won't be dipping in their pockets for this venture - or do we get the "Time to move on for the club" routine. Forgive my cynicism. Like many others, thank you from the bottom of my heart to all of the TJF office bearers who devoted so much time and effort for the good of our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: I’d encourage you to join The Jags Foundation. The larger the membership the stronger the voice Done. I need to put my money into something Thistle related.... Edited August 9, 2022 by Mr Scruff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 23 minutes ago, sandy said: This. It’s the only game in town. We just need some cahones for what happens next. Money talks so ‘not a penny more’ has the potential to make a difference. Short-term pain for longer-term gain. Certain charlatans at Club Board level need to go and not let the door hit their arse on the way out. cc @marcia blaine Totally agree it’s the only fan group in town. I do wonder whether in the medium term there’s a need for an arms-length campaigning group that’s allied to, but distinct from TJF? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 Just now, MarciaBlaine said: Totally agree it’s the only fan group in town. I do wonder whether in the medium term there’s a need for an arms-length campaigning group that’s allied to, but distinct from TJF? Good point caller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 The two conditions 3BC set out for a preferred share recipient are couched in the future tense. There is no requirement for historical achievements. Therefore recipients' past behaviour is irrelevant, and the preferred organisation can modify its future intentions to suit. . We have been well and truly stitched up. Not at all surprising. I'm assuming that Low's interest is in control. She owns no shares and would not therefore benefit directly from a sale of the ground and a move elsewhere. However the gift of the shares to a very small group without rigorous fan oversight, would be risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, East Kent Jag II said: I see that the successful bidder is crawling into the light before the ICT match. It'll be interesting to see Low's preferred partner. It seems to me predjucial to kill off the TJF bid, whilst still in legal negotiations with the supposed successful choice. As Devil's Advocate, what if by some quirk those legal negotiations fail? I know that is extremely unlikely, but in real life it would be a possibility. I expect that the risk would be eliminated if you were confident that the recipient is acting as a puppet and you control both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Jag II Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, stolenscone said: I expect that the risk would be eliminated if you were confident that the recipient is acting as a puppet and you control both ends. That's why I commented on "real life", SS. Clearly they expect to have no difficulties!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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