Jags vs Dungdee Sat 05/11 2022

[johnkebab71]

The three of them have to go. They are completely inept and the squad that they have assembled now shows. 
 

Team is in big bother, bring on 2 young boys who haven’t kicked a ball all season…says a lot for the senior players not trusted to do the job. Smith and Fitzpatrick are both absolute disasters and would be happy to never see them in a thistle top again. There is a reason Fitzpatrick was playing where he was last season and how Smith is picking up a wage as a professional footballer is beyond me.

Mckinnon is a nothing player, done well in first couple of games but never bought into the hype..done nothing for weeks now and showed zero urgency today and couldn’t wait to be able to pass the ball backwards.

Milne is a star and will be lucky to see him in a thistle top next year. Miles above everyone else. 

Squad has been found out big time but doesn’t help when the management is so poor. Can’t take another Archie interview or McCalls post match delusions. Please leave. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Third Lanark]

55 minutes ago, johnkebab71 said:

The three of them have to go. They are completely inept and the squad that they have assembled now shows. 
 

Team is in big bother, bring on 2 young boys who haven’t kicked a ball all season…says a lot for the senior players not trusted to do the job. Smith and Fitzpatrick are both absolute disasters and would be happy to never see them in a thistle top again. There is a reason Fitzpatrick was playing where he was last season and how Smith is picking up a wage as a professional footballer is beyond me.

Mckinnon is a nothing player, done well in first couple of games but never bought into the hype..done nothing for weeks now and showed zero urgency today and couldn’t wait to be able to pass the ball backwards.

Milne is a star and will be lucky to see him in a thistle top next year. Miles above everyone else. 

Squad has been found out big time but doesn’t help when the management is so poor. Can’t take another Archie interview or McCalls post match delusions. Please leave. 
 

 

 

 

 

Fitzpatrick hasn’t been given enough of a chance.  Has scored 3 goals and had a few assists.  Yes he needs to get fitter but he is still a young lad.  To put him in the same category of smith is just an insult 

[Stephen1876]

Whilst I agree with most of that, and Graham missing sitters can be infuriating, we have not struggled for goals this season. Even in this bad run, we are still finding the net. It’s the defence and more generally how we defend as a team that is the problem. 
 

For large parts of the Raith game last week and also at points yesterday, we completely lost our shape 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Stephen1876

[jaf]

I have been saying all week I hope we have been practising defending set pieces as that’s Dundee’s best chance of scoring (as evidenced by the game at Dundee).

i don’t claim to be any master analyst of football tactics. If I could see that, I would have hoped our management team would have. To me, therefore, the second goal was just a terrible goal to concede. 

[JAG1970]

Morton and Arbroath next up, two managers who will smell blood and go at us from the off knowing how fragile we are. Unless we get 2 or 3 of the injured back starting next week I can’t see anyway out of this mess - and getting players back doesn’t guarantee the rot will stop, rather might give us a bit of resilience but we shall see. Personally I think IMC isn’t capable of fixing his squad, and a couple of draws however unlikely would be papering over the cracks. We’ve also got the cup game where the opposition have nothing to lose. 

Any change in manager must come in time for the 3 games in December to enable a replacement to assess the squad ahead of January otherwise any new managers hands will be tied. 
But I think if he avoids defeat in the cup and gets a point in the game before, the board will let him stagger on regardless. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by JAG1970

[belfastjag]

That's a really brittle team. At halftime all I wanted was the final whistle.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

11 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

We have 2 keepers who are bombscares.  A goalkeeping coach who seems to have regressed them both

Fair enough but there's one thing about Kenny Arthur you can't argue about. His protégés have at least inherited Kenny's kicking ability. 

[Anniesland Jag]

Nothing much more to say in another disappointing Jekyll and Hyde game of two half’s, one competent and one bowfin .

On a positive I thought the Hospitality was top notch with an excellent Brain Welsh as compère ,Joe and Stephen Craig as  former player guests and two tables of well behaved Dundee fans adding to the atmosphere .

[Muscat Jag]

18 hours ago, javeajag said:

Ok….we go in two up at half time even though they looked slightly better than us. It was always clear that the next goal would be crucial and I felt if they got one they would get more. Our decision to simply defend for the whole of the second half put pressure on the weakest part of our team , the defense. It was a very poor game from two poor sides. Good to see long punts up  the park have not gone away.

Our shape was incomprehensible with a huge gap between the midfield and front players which made all the long balls even more bizarre.

the squad is clearly not good enough which is ultimately McCall responsibility.

a decent keeper would have prevented at least two of the goals.

if McCall won’t do it then the board have to and the back room staff should go.

doing nothing is not an option.

I was going to post something about yesterday's debacle, but you've pretty much said it for me.  On bonfire night the loudest noise to be heard all day was Thistle's bottle crashing at half-time.

[laukat]

12 hours ago, johnkebab71 said:

The three of them have to go. They are completely inept and the squad that they have assembled now shows. 
 

Team is in big bother, bring on 2 young boys who haven’t kicked a ball all season…says a lot for the senior players not trusted to do the job. Smith and Fitzpatrick are both absolute disasters and would be happy to never see them in a thistle top again. There is a reason Fitzpatrick was playing where he was last season and how Smith is picking up a wage as a professional footballer is beyond me.

Mckinnon is a nothing player, done well in first couple of games but never bought into the hype..done nothing for weeks now and showed zero urgency today and couldn’t wait to be able to pass the ball backwards.

Milne is a star and will be lucky to see him in a thistle top next year. Miles above everyone else. 

Squad has been found out big time but doesn’t help when the management is so poor. Can’t take another Archie interview or McCalls post match delusions. Please leave. 
 

 

 

 

 

Don't disagree about Fitzpatrick or Smith.

Slightly harsh on McKinnon who I think is off form and now having to play a role that he isn't comfortable with.

Also slightly too glowing on Milne. He's a good player but he still needs to learn how to defend a bit better. It looks great when he goes for 50/50's, wins it and gets on the attack but there are a few he's going for that he's never getting. He's a very good wingback when we play 3-5-2 but so far not disciplined enough to play leftback in a 4. I think even at this level the opposition know that he will leave a gap and target it.

The squad is quite talented but its too heavy on attackers and not enough defensive players. To my mind if we want to push the fullbacks on and play 4 at the back that means 2 CDM's are required and to have only one in the squad was a problem since the window closed.

Now we have injuries its even more apparent that we should have recruited another CDM and another centre half. Don't think we needed to sign Weston or Mullin as we had cover in attack and wide. Thats not a reflection on Weston or Mullin as arguably both have shown more than Fitzpatrick or Smith but more that they were the last signings and both were going to struggle for game time given the options we had at the point they were signed.

Ideally in January Akinola, Smith, Mullin and Weston head out and we replace them with 2 centrehalfs and 2 CDM's. I would only keep Fitzpatrick if he showed something between now and then. 

Mitchell also has a lot to prove. He looks slightly better than Sneddon but as the senior goalkeeper he gap between the two should be much wider than it is.

[Jagtastic]

1 hour ago, Anniesland Jag said:

Nothing much more to say in another disappointing Jekyll and Hyde game of two half’s, one competent and one bowfin .

On a positive I thought the Hospitality was top notch with an excellent Brain Welsh as compère ,Joe and Stephen Craig as  former player guests and two tables of well behaved Dundee fans adding to the atmosphere .

Shame some of them were desperate to make sure everyone knew they were there and act like complete fuds during the game. Giving it the big one to some older guys with a security guard standing in front of them.

Sat in the area long enough to have seen plenty away fans in hospitality and celebrating goals is one thing but the GIUY shite unprompted is pathetic.

[Jaggernaut]

14 minutes ago, Jagtastic said:

Shame some of them were desperate to make sure everyone knew they were there and act like complete fuds during the game. Giving it the big one to some older guys with a security guard standing in front of them.

Sat in the area long enough to have seen plenty away fans in hospitality and celebrating goals is one thing but the GIUY shite unprompted is pathetic.

Maybe you misunderstood: They're from Dundee; that's how they address their nearest and dearest every day.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

One further thingy from yesterday. Why was McMillan playing at the left of the back three? As the one guy who can go forward at ease and at reasonable pace? Surely he should have been played between Muirhead and Brownlie? 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett

[laukat]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

One further thingy from yesterday. Why was McMillan playing at the left of the back three? As the one guy who can go forward at ease and at reasonable pace? Surely he should have been played between Muirhead and Brownlie? 

 

Thought the back 3 worked reasonably well. I assumed McMillan was at left centre-back as he had the pace to cover the gap Milne leaves and allow him to overlap whilst defensively we still had a 'natural' back 4 should we loose possession. Which again worked reasonably well in the first half and up until Mitchell drops the ball.

Problem was the midfield 3. Turner and Bannigan were just about ok in doing their defensive duties. McKinnon was often too central and leaving Hodson and Brownlie with a lot to do.  However they were coping and at no point did Dundee look like they were getting in behind our defence.

When Bannigan gets injured it goes badly wrong. In part thats due to losing our most experienced midfielder but a massive part is moving Hodson out of the back 5 to fill the gap. Hodson was very good at right wingback and tried his best in CDM as did MacKenzie at RWB but the easier option was to have just put Stanway on for Bannigan. Might have asked a lot of Stanway but it would have kept the back 5 intact. 

[Kingleo]

I see Scally is in the press pleading from patience from the fans. Judge us when the injuries have cleared. So come January when we’re in the bottom 2 fighting relegation the injuries will clear to give us a chance of staying. So then it will be all hail McCall and his 2 wise men. Good luck with that Neil

[JAG1970]

21 minutes ago, Kingleo said:

I see Scally is in the press pleading from patience from the fans. Judge us when the injuries have cleared. So come January when we’re in the bottom 2 fighting relegation the injuries will clear to give us a chance of staying. So then it will be all hail McCall and his 2 wise men. Good luck with that Neil

Perhaps he should ask the league to void those games because we weren’t quite ready.
It was only a few weeks ago we were told we had strength and depth across the squad. He can’t airbrush away  the last few weeks.  A ridiculous statement.

Between this and some of McCall’s after match comments it’s becoming embarrassing. Maybe let Harry Milne do the after match comments, he was refreshingly honest yesterday.

Edited November 6, 2022 by JAG1970

[Anniesland Jag]

3 hours ago, Jagtastic said:

Shame some of them were desperate to make sure everyone knew they were there and act like complete fuds during the game. Giving it the big one to some older guys with a security guard standing in front of them.

Sat in the area long enough to have seen plenty away fans in hospitality and celebrating goals is one thing but the GIUY shite unprompted is pathetic.

From what I could see and hear our fans gave as good as they got .We all are capable of over reacting in the heat of the moment and can only assume we would be prone to a bit of GIRUY going 3-2  up after being 2 down .

[Yellow & Redneck]

I'd tend to blame the moronic players and management team who even allowed the Dundee fans to celebrate at all. 

[Third Lanark]

4 hours ago, laukat said:

Don't disagree about Fitzpatrick or Smith.

Slightly harsh on McKinnon who I think is off form and now having to play a role that he isn't comfortable with.

Also slightly too glowing on Milne. He's a good player but he still needs to learn how to defend a bit better. It looks great when he goes for 50/50's, wins it and gets on the attack but there are a few he's going for that he's never getting. He's a very good wingback when we play 3-5-2 but so far not disciplined enough to play leftback in a 4. I think even at this level the opposition know that he will leave a gap and target it.

The squad is quite talented but its too heavy on attackers and not enough defensive players. To my mind if we want to push the fullbacks on and play 4 at the back that means 2 CDM's are required and to have only one in the squad was a problem since the window closed.

Now we have injuries its even more apparent that we should have recruited another CDM and another centre half. Don't think we needed to sign Weston or Mullin as we had cover in attack and wide. Thats not a reflection on Weston or Mullin as arguably both have shown more than Fitzpatrick or Smith but more that they were the last signings and both were going to struggle for game time given the options we had at the point they were signed.

Ideally in January Akinola, Smith, Mullin and Weston head out and we replace them with 2 centrehalfs and 2 CDM's. I would only keep Fitzpatrick if he showed something between now and then. 

Mitchell also has a lot to prove. He looks slightly better than Sneddon but as the senior goalkeeper he gap between the two should be much wider than it is.

Twice you mention disappointment in Fitzpatrick and that Mullen and Weston have offered more.  The 2 of thems goals and assists have not matched Fitzpatricks.

I agree with you on Smith

[Third Lanark]

3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

One further thingy from yesterday. Why was McMillan playing at the left of the back three? As the one guy who can go forward at ease and at reasonable pace? Surely he should have been played between Muirhead and Brownlie? 

 

I’m guessing because the manager wished to accommodate a new favourite in Hodson who has been a disappointment 

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, JAG1970 said:

Perhaps he should ask the league to void those games because we weren’t quite ready.
It was only a few weeks ago we were told we had strength and depth across the squad. He can’t airbrush away  the last few weeks.  A ridiculous statement.

Between this and some of McCall’s after match comments it’s becoming embarrassing. Maybe let Harry Milne do the after match comments, he was refreshingly honest yesterday.

Out of likes but this is spot on

[Third Lanark]

32 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

I'd tend to blame the moronic players and management team who even allowed the Dundee fans to celebrate at all. 

Again out of likes

regard hospitality Dundee fans seemed to be fine and just celebrating a much needed 3 points for their team.  Not on as alarming a slide as we are but given the size of their budget they hadn’t been doing as well as expected 

[Jagtastic]

1 hour ago, Anniesland Jag said:

From what I could see and hear our fans gave as good as they got .We all are capable of over reacting in the heat of the moment and can only assume we would be prone to a bit of GIRUY going 3-2  up after being 2 down .

Point being these well behaved Dundee fans were the ones instigating it - obviously folk are going to react. Two of them in particular were out of order and I doubt they’d have been as ballsy had they been sitting elsewhere without a steward in front of them. Fannies.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

35 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I’m guessing because the manager wished to accommodate a new favourite in Hodson who has been a disappointment 

No. What I was saying was it should've been Brownlie (rcb)- McMillan (central cb) - Muirhead (lcb) instead of Brownlie - Muirhead - McMillan. Nothing to do with Hodson. 

[laukat]

47 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Twice you mention disappointment in Fitzpatrick and that Mullen and Weston have offered more.  The 2 of thems goals and assists have not matched Fitzpatricks.

I agree with you on Smith

According to Transfermarkt Fitzpatrick has had 476 minutes on the park in the league and during that time he has 1 goal and 1 assist . Mullen has only had 191 minutes but had 1 assist so he has almost 300 minutes to score a goal and he's as effective as Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick has had 5 starts whereas yesterday's was Mullen's first. 

I'm not a huge Mullen fan as I think his attitude can be questionable and he doesn't score lots of goal but from what I saw yesterday he looks way more effective than Fitzpatrick. Mullen was very good at holding the ball up and showing how to defend form the front. I think Mullen was signed as 3rd choice striker to put pressure on Graham and Dowds unfortunately for him both have both been decent so far which means his chances have been limited by the good form of others.

Weston has only 62 minutes. So comparing his stats is largely pointless. Weston was a cheap loan signing and at the start of the season would have been 4th choice striker and 4th choice winger. Any time he has been used he has always looked energetic and keen to impress. Fitzpatrick when he comes off the bench doesn't look like he can be bothered or ownly interested in trying a spectacular trick. In particular his 19 minutes against Cove was very poor and instrumental in throwing a 2 goal lead.

Fitzpatrick was signed to be a first team starter along with Tiffoney with Lawless being the backup for both. Fitzpatrick has done so little to suggest he deserves a start that right now can't get on the park if Lawless or Tiffoney is half fit. Its that bad that he can't get a look in ahead of Cammy Smith. McCall must now Smith offers nothing in attack but I would assume prefers him to Fitzpatrick because he does work back, either that or Smith is McCall's secret lovechild.

I was happy to see him sign for us as he has ability and pace. However it would appear he has not learned how help his team particularly in defence. I hope that at 21 years old he can still develop into a player but he needs to quickly recognise that he is fortunate to be a professional footballer and that if he doesn't show something soon he may find himself at part-time club.