Vom Itorium Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Long gone are the days of cries of 'Sack the Board'. What we need here is one almighty attempt to 'Sack the Bean Counter'. Edited February 18, 2011 by Vom Itorium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 You don't find it both hilarious and tragic that after flogging off half the stadium and after countless years of banging on the boardroom door saying give the fans a real, affordable and fair chance to buy into the club because we're the only source of funding that is in it for life, we've now got a hotshot marketing team who have concluded that some kind of pitch to the fans to invest might be the only way forward? Maybe Tom Hughes can tell us why this wasn't an acceptable idea in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 or 2010, but now its time has come. Have they seen the light or just the dark abyss? How many of the previous, or current directors, or shareholders claim to be non-jags fans? Is so called "Fan ownership" such a certain improvement on the status quo? The consistant bickering and reported inability to unite, grow and empower supporters in an agreed cause evident within the Jags Trust might suggest otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 First and foremost, it's a source of revenue, which I thought we have been crying out for. They'd rather search the far corners of the Earth for some land speculators than take money from people who love the club right here. Bickering among the fans is our Achilles heel. I'd argue that it exactly mirrors what goes on in the boardroom. It's a control issue in the end and retaining control seems to be more important than raising cash. Fair enough. It's their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 How many of the previous, or current directors, or shareholders claim to be non-jags fans? Is so called "Fan ownership" such a certain improvement on the status quo? The consistant bickering and reported inability to unite, grow and empower supporters in an agreed cause evident within the Jags Trust might suggest otherwise. There's a huge difference between fan ownership and fans owning shares in the club. We are just talking about the latter point in this particular instance. Indeed, I don't think it's particularly changing the status quo at all. Why have the club always been so reticent to allow this setting the bar beyond achievable levels for most fans? We keep getting told that it's too difficult - but I've been told by someone who deals with such things on a regular basis that this is nonsense. And other clubs have schemes that allow fans to buy shares in a reasonable manner. All the club are doing is denying themselves revenue in exchange for something that might be construed as being of more value to them than the latest away top. Woulnd't it be good to feel that you owned a part of the club and were able to attend the AGM and ask the present custodians challenging questions about how they are exercising their responsibilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 The Jags Trust have 1,000,000 shares. Membership of the trust is £10. Why are fans' challenging questions not being raised at the AGM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) To be honest, the challenges facing the club are no different. The approach by the board is different - we don't have a board budgetting for a loss as has happened before which is a small step in the right direction. But that shouldn't be mistaken for them being anywhere near making progress in resolving the financial dilemma. On a slight tangent presumably to avoid over spending, next season's player budget isn't going to be higher than this season's. Indeed if attendances remain low and there's no increase in season ticket sales then I'd imagine our player budget will be considerably lower. Where there might be a light at the end of the tunnel is in comparable budgets. Other clubs are feeling the pinch just as much if not more than us. It is more than just remotely possible that next season we'll be relatively better of budget-wise than this season, within our division at least. The downside for breaking even does not necessarily mean that the best we can hope for is a relegation struggle. Edited February 18, 2011 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 On a slight tangent presumably to avoid over spending, next season's player budget isn't going to be higher than this season's. Indeed if attendances remain low and there's no increase in season ticket sales then I'd imagine our player budget will be considerably lower. Where there might be a light at the end of the tunnel is in comparable budgets. Other clubs are feeling the pinch just as much if not more than us. It is more than just remotely possible that next season we'll be relatively better of budget-wise than this season, within our division at least. The downside for breaking even does not necessarily mean that the best we can hope for is a relegation struggle. A good point, well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 The Jags Trust have 1,000,000 shares. Membership of the trust is £10. Why are fans' challenging questions not being raised at the AGM? Because the Trust is a deid duck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Sadly, walking away is what a lot of people have been doing while the club's present captains have been on watch, pretty merchandise or not. Can't disagree with that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted February 18, 2011 Members Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Surely the Trust owns more than 1,000,00 shares now with all the shares they've made off the back of the Centenary Fund? Unless.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Surely the Trust owns more than 1,000,00 shares now with all the shares they've made off the back of the Centenary Fund? Unless.......... David Beattie gave a personal assurance it would be resolved around the time of the face to face meeting between Boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) All this talk of the Trust. In fact any talk of the Trust, it's merely wasted keystrokes. We all know the Jags Trust isn't worth a fck.. it's had it's chance it's failed miserably on many occasions Let's not waste keystrokes even mentioning it anymore. It is a dead body that holds 1,000,000 shares, a bit like those custodians who have the club at heart and will protect us from evil. Let's concentrate on what we, individually, can do as fans of the club. How can we do our bit without involving some glorified coffee morning? That's the only thing that is going to help get us out of the mire. If you don't buy 50-50 tickets... start. If you've never taken hospitality, why not save up and give it a go. If you don't bother with new merchandise then treat yourself to a new scarf. To waste one iota of thought thinking that the Jags Trust can do ANYTHING to benefit the club is just a nonsense. It holds 1,000,000 shares in the same way that our so-called finacial whizz does... I say no more. Edited February 19, 2011 by Vom Itorium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 To waste one iota of thought thinking that the Jags Trust can do ANYTHING to benefit the club is just a nonsense. It holds 1,000,000 shares in the same way that our so-called finacial whizz does... I say no more. I would like to believe that the JT could still do the Club & fans justice, but that is going to need a cull of the MacBeth 3 and a return to the JTB for some of the talented ex-JTB folk who have tried before to reform it and left frustrated. There are good people out there who could do the Trust justice again and restore it's ability to work positively with the Club while also asking assertive questions about financial management issues. Double Ugly, RDR, Honved, Stolenscone, Red Monkey...even myself (if I could face it again!). There are others like jaf, Yoda Jag and even yourself Vom Itorium who could probably add real value. But removal of the TH-aligned cabal would be a pre-requisite. Elections this summer I believe; the Treasurer has to stand on a new ticket. Perhaps it's time we dealt with our very own Sarah Palin (all bluster, wreaks havoc, has ignorance of wider affairs and has skewed political allegiances) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 There's always the annoying, nagging feeling that someone might be able to kick the Trust into shape, even now (and good luck to anyone who tries), but you can absolutely count me out, Sandy. But as a Trust member, it would be nice to have some decent candidates to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honved Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 There's always the annoying, nagging feeling that someone might be able to kick the Trust into shape, even now (and good luck to anyone who tries), but you can absolutely count me out, Sandy. But as a Trust member, it would be nice to have some decent candidates to vote for. Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't know if the "From the Boardroom" will be posted on the official website as normally happens after the game but as someone who did get a programme there was, in my opinion, some interesting points and if it does not get put on the website I will post it here on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 All this talk of the Trust. In fact any talk of the Trust, it's merely wasted keystrokes. We all know the Jags Trust isn't worth a fck.. it's had it's chance it's failed miserably on many occasions Let's not waste keystrokes even mentioning it anymore. It is a dead body that holds 1,000,000 shares, a bit like those custodians who have the club at heart and will protect us from evil. Let's concentrate on what we, individually, can do as fans of the club. How can we do our bit without involving some glorified coffee morning? That's the only thing that is going to help get us out of the mire. If you don't buy 50-50 tickets... start. If you've never taken hospitality, why not save up and give it a go. If you don't bother with new merchandise then treat yourself to a new scarf. To waste one iota of thought thinking that the Jags Trust can do ANYTHING to benefit the club is just a nonsense. It holds 1,000,000 shares in the same way that our so-called finacial whizz does... I say no more. I don't know about many of the ins and outs of what's happened to the Trust, so will say this from a neutral point of view, though I am a member. It's clear to me that even if there was a "cull" or whatever then it would be very difficult or even impossible for it to regain any credibility in many people's eyes. It's all so divisive and I can't be ersed with that sort of thing, so I'm not interested in getting into any "they did this" or "didn't do that" or whatever. If we started again would all this sort of thing not just happend all over again? I suspect so. For that reason I can't see that we we're going to have a credible fans organisation. It's crap, but the unavoidable truth. Maybe they will plough on regardless and the many dissenting voices here will continue to be just that, and maybe one day the dissent will hopefully disappear as the JT becomes credible, but that seems a damn long way off just now. How many members do we have here? How representative are we of the wider Jags support? Is it easy to do a poll on these things? If so I'd ask a simple question? Does the Jags Trust have a future? yes or no. Simples. Hmm. Yes/no/maybe? Could be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I don't know if the "From the Boardroom" will be posted on the official website as normally happens after the game but as someone who did get a programme there was, in my opinion, some interesting points and if it does not get put on the website I will post it here on Sunday. Please do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Here is the link to the article on the website: http://ptfc.co.uk/news/2010-2011/february_2011/message_from_the_boardroom_19_02_11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Statement is on the official site now. In his outgoing report last summer as he left the boardroom, Kieron Dempsey told the Jags Trust AGM under the heading "Trust Achievements": 1876 Merger securing the right to a place on the Club Board in perpetuity without payment of a Directorship fee Now David Beattie says fans will need to raise money for the playing budget and: We are also aligning the extra money raised to supporters Board representation’s within the club. Whatever you think of the Trust, a deal is supposedly a deal. So was Kieron, who I think we all regard as a smart guy, totally misunderstanding the whole situation when he said that? That seems very hard to believe. Or did someone lie to him when they shook hands on the merger and said there was "a right" to a place on the Club board in perpetuity, not linked to raising additional funds (after all the funds the fans raised to get into the boardroom in the first place)? It's either one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Statement is on the official site now. In his outgoing report last summer as he left the boardroom, Kieron Dempsey told the Jags Trust AGM under the heading "Trust Achievements": 1876 Merger securing the right to a place on the Club Board in perpetuity without payment of a Directorship fee Now David Beattie says fans will need to raise money for the playing budget and: We are also aligning the extra money raised to supporters Board representation’s within the club. Whatever you think of the Trust, a deal is supposedly a deal. So was Kieron, who I think we all regard as a smart guy, totally misunderstanding the whole situation when he said that? That seems very hard to believe. Or did someone lie to him when they shook hands on the merger and said there was "a right" to a place on the Club board in perpetuity, not linked to raising additional funds (after all the funds the fans raised to get into the boardroom in the first place)? It's either one or the other. I have no knowledge of how this is going to work but who says that the representation David speaks about is going to be from the Trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'd also point out Kieron's conclusions at the end of that report: The Club Board have made a number of agreements with the Trust and indeed have given their word to keep to them – the Trust made a "leap of faith‟ the Club Board only have to keep their word and both can work together for the future benefit of Partick Thistle Football Club. Keeping your word. What a concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I have no knowledge of how this is going to work but who says that the representation David speaks about is going to be from the Trust? I'm sure it won't be. And I'd be interested in your view on that, Martin - was Kieron mistaken or did the board break their word? Edited February 20, 2011 by Double Ugly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm sure it won't be. And I'd be interested in your view on that, Martin - was Kieron mistaken or did the board break their word? In my period on the Trust Board I never saw a signed document which outlined such an agreement. I was not at the meeting which saw the Trust decide to merge the 1876 scheme with the CF so can't speak to what was said (in public or behind the scenes) there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'd also point out Kieron's conclusions at the end of that report: The Club Board have made a number of agreements with the Trust and indeed have given their word to keep to them – the Trust made a "leap of faith‟ the Club Board only have to keep their word and both can work together for the future benefit of Partick Thistle Football Club. Keeping your word. What a concept. Have they broken their word though ? The JT rep put to them was in their mind (and in the mind of many/most of us) not what was needed to work with the club and represent the shareholding and the fans. What if someone else was put up for the board ? Until the JT test that scenario we wont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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