Firhillista Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 "At the risk of repeating myself and apologising for interupting the happy mood of optimism but we DO NOT HAVE A STRIKER on the team sheet. We have a couple of young boys who might prove to be anything, an inside man in Doolan, Erskine (???) and possibly Stewart who is possibly a wide man. We have a midfield who contribute few goals and not much else in the team to worry opposition goalkeepers. I don`t care how bad the league will be but that lot will not win us a league. Sorry, but I can't agree. Doolan IS a striker - and one who leads the line increasingly well with each passing game. Top scorer in the division - hard to argue with that. And as far as I can see, Stewart IS an out-and-out striker. Yes, he can play in the midfield, but he looks to me like one of those guys we're going to complain that he does nothing but score goals! Grehan has yet to find any goal threat, but his contribution to the attack is significant. And if Erskine keeps improving, maybe he will end up playing for Scotland. And Fraser shows real promise. No' bad to be getting on with. Be happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 At the risk of repeating myself and apologising for interupting the happy mood of optimism but we DO NOT HAVE A STRIKER on the team sheet. Doolan is the league's top scorer. Is that striker enough for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 If we don't have an out and out striker then what must the rest of the league be thinking about their strikers when we have the top scorer in the division? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Sorry, but I can't agree. Doolan IS a striker - and one who leads the line increasingly well with each passing game. Top scorer in the division - hard to argue with that. And as far as I can see, Stewart IS an out-and-out striker. Yes, he can play in the midfield, but he looks to me like one of those guys we're going to complain that he does nothing but score goals! Grehan has yet to find any goal threat, but his contribution to the attack is significant. And if Erskine keeps improving, maybe he will end up playing for Scotland. And Fraser shows real promise. No' bad to be getting on with. Be happy! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Have never denied Doolan did well and far better than anyone expected but even the most optimistic supporter should recognise that he is far more comfortable in a support role than as recognised striker. With the lack of contribution in terms of goals from our midfield and to a lesser extent defence, then 14 goals from our recognised centre forward will not nearly be enough to sustain a promotion challenge Oookay, so we'd like two fourteen goal strikers plus a midfielder who chips in with a dozen, a season without Billy Bombscare sent off and Rowser quadrupling his tally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Seems reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Okay, I *think* I'm the only Jags fan who read about Paul Hartley 'quitting' fitba, got the Celtic connection with our new managers and had a small frisson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebridean jag Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 so the general consensus is that the current forward line with it`s 14 goal centre forward is good enough to challenge for the title. This is the smae centre forward who led the line in all those 0-0 home games but it will all be different next season. Again, apologising for interupting the happy mood of general optimism but the current squad cannot and will not score enough goals to challenge for an exceptionally poor league title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 so the general consensus is that the current forward line with it`s 14 goal centre forward is good enough to challenge for the title. This is the smae centre forward who led the line in all those 0-0 home games but it will all be different next season. Again, apologising for interupting the happy mood of general optimism but the current squad cannot and will not score enough goals to challenge for an exceptionally poor league title. How many of those 0-0's were with our 4-3-3 formation and Tommy Stewart playing up front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 so the general consensus is that the current forward line with it`s 14 goal centre forward is good enough to challenge for the title. This is the smae centre forward who led the line in all those 0-0 home games but it will all be different next season. Again, apologising for interupting the happy mood of general optimism but the current squad cannot and will not score enough goals to challenge for an exceptionally poor league title. By my reckoning we had 4 0-0 games at Firhill this season and of those Doolan only played in 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Don't know if this is the point HJ is making or not but to challenge for the league we need to score considerably more goals than we did this season. Dunfermline's goals for was 50% higher than ours. Whether or not Doolan was top league scorer is largely irrelevant. I do tho' think that the momentum towards the end of the season suggested we would score more freely next season and with that in mind re-signing Tommy Stewart has to be a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Don't know if this is the point HJ is making or not but to challenge for the league we need to score considerably more goals than we did this season. Dunfermline's goals for was 50% higher than ours. Whether or not Doolan was top league scorer is largely irrelevant. I do tho' think that the momentum towards the end of the season suggested we would score more freely next season and with that in mind re-signing Tommy Stewart has to be a priority. Agreed. HJ failed to get anyone to agree with him because he kept insisting Doolan wasn't a striker which is nonsense. But he's right in that we can't depend on one guy. Stewart will help but we need more goals from midfield and maybe also another back up striker if we can find/afford one. If Cairney could re-find the form of his first full season with us, that would do it (along with goals from Erskine) - but since he hasn't scored much this season I guess we should be looking to get someone in who can. However that may require money we don't have. Would one of the youngsters, like Bannigan, be able to come to the fore? Perhaps the manager can work some system of play which makes opportunities for midfield players? Edited May 16, 2011 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Agreed. HJ failed to get anyone to agree with him because he kept insisting Doolan wasn't a striker which is nonsense. But he's right in that we can't depend on one guy. Stewart will help but we need more goals from midfield and maybe also another back up striker if we can find/afford one. If Cairney could re-find the form of his first full season with us, that would do it (along with goals from Erskine) - but since he hasn't scored much this season I guess we should be looking to get someone in who can. However that may require money we don't have. Would one of the youngsters, like Bannigan, be able to come to the fore? Perhaps the manager can work some system of play which makes opportunities for midfield players? I watched a couple of Youtube clips last night, and noticed that Cairney scored a few of the goals that featured. It was good to see him start to show glimpses of his old self in the last few games of the season, especially when Rowson was absent, but that probably meant he was a bit deeper than he'd normally be. It would be great to see him fully back to normal and getting forward a bit more next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) I watched a couple of Youtube clips last night, and noticed that Cairney scored a few of the goals that featured. It was good to see him start to show glimpses of his old self in the last few games of the season, especially when Rowson was absent, but that probably meant he was a bit deeper than he'd normally be. It would be great to see him fully back to normal and getting forward a bit more next season. People in the world of football often say such and such can't play in the same midfield as so and so (Lampard and Gerrard for eg). I had similar thoughts in the season just passed in relation to Rowser and Cairney. Can't mind the game but it was at Firhill and Cairney was hooked after about an hour, Rowson then came onto a game and never really looked back since. Also, the 2 games Rowson missed due to suspension saw Cairney start to come into his own and show glimpses of the form he had last season...then against Raith Rovers I thought Cairney was a wee bit off the boil again Edited May 16, 2011 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 People in the world of football often say such and such can't play in the same midfield as so and so (Lampard and Gerrard for eg). I had similar thoughts in the season just passed in relation to Rowser and Cairney. Can't mind the game but it was at Firhill and Cairney was hooked after about an hour, Rowson then came onto a game and never really looked back since. Also, the 2 games Rowson missed due to suspension saw Cairney start to come into his own and show glimpses of the form he had last season...then against Raith Rovers I thought Cairney was a wee bit off the boil again Hmm, tres interessant. It may be that with one or two of the youngsters being able to do a good job in midfield, that we'll have enough to cover and mix and match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Don't know if this is the point HJ is making or not but to challenge for the league we need to score considerably more goals than we did this season. Dunfermline's goals for was 50% higher than ours. Whether or not Doolan was top league scorer is largely irrelevant. I do tho' think that the momentum towards the end of the season suggested we would score more freely next season and with that in mind re-signing Tommy Stewart has to be a priority. HJ's view surprises me too. Does anyone have a note of what Doolan's goal to starts ratio is? My impression of the season overall is that for long stretches Doolan was being kept on the bench by a non-scoring strike partnership of Buchanan and Donnelly. Given that he only began starting regularly (as opposed to coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes or so) this year, becoming top scorer in the division suggests very prolific scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 HJ's view surprises me too. Does anyone have a note of what Doolan's goal to starts ratio is? My impression of the season overall is that for long stretches Doolan was being kept on the bench by a non-scoring strike partnership of Buchanan and Donnelly. Given that he only began starting regularly (as opposed to coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes or so) this year, becoming top scorer in the division suggests very prolific scoring. In the 08/09 season he made 17 appearances (15 starts) scoring 5 goals. 09/10, 19 appearances (6 starts - excluding games for Clyde), 3 goals. This season: 38 games (32 starts), 18 goals. Overall he has scored 23 goals in the games he has started for us (26 in total). Which I work out to be a goal every 2.3 games, on starts alone. His overall record is 1 in 2.8 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebridean jag Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 We finished 6th highest scorers in a league of 10 and scored only 2/3rd of the goals the league winners scored. Even allowing that Doolan is a natural striker and scores as many as he did in the last season where are the other goals coming from. If you allow that Dunfermline`s stats are typical of league champions where are the additional 22 goals coming from given that we scored a grand total of 44? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 We won't concede any goals next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 We finished 6th highest scorers in a league of 10 and scored only 2/3rd of the goals the league winners scored. Even allowing that Doolan is a natural striker and scores as many as he did in the last season where are the other goals coming from. If you allow that Dunfermline`s stats are typical of league champions where are the additional 22 goals coming from given that we scored a grand total of 44? More or less what I was saying in a previous post tho' by using a bit of creative accounting I think we can expect to score more than 44 goals. Doolan scored 7 goals in the last third of the season suggesting he could manage over 20 next season. Similarly our scoring rate over that period of 17 goals backs that up. Just an opinion but if we could sign Stewart he'd chip in with a good few and certainly make more chances than we were doing. Fraser should improve and Burns is a lot stronger than he was this time last season. Bannigan has scored a few for Ayr as well. Still feel even using above optimism that we'd fall short of that extra 22 goals. Obviously we need to get the left back situation sorted and imo re-signing Stewart is almost as crucial. To repeat after that we'd need to send one or even two of the young strikers out on loan to bring in a proven Div 1 striker. Not sure the budget will even stretch that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 We finished 6th highest scorers in a league of 10 and scored only 2/3rd of the goals the league winners scored. Even allowing that Doolan is a natural striker and scores as many as he did in the last season where are the other goals coming from. If you allow that Dunfermline`s stats are typical of league champions where are the additional 22 goals coming from given that we scored a grand total of 44? I really don't get where your argument is coming from, we have the league's (admittedly low) equal top goal scorer who has scored the majority of those in the last five months since he has been our main goal threat. Your main argument until now has been that Doolan isn't good enough to rely on, and that may be true, but his form suggests otherwise. Now you're starting to point out that other players don't score enough, and that I thought was obvious. With Stewart and Erskine seeming to be favoured for more attacking roles than they were under McCall, I feel we'll have more of a threat from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Rowser - bless him - has scored 8 goals in 212 starts for the Jags, Now if only we could have a few more of THESE: Wooof! (edited to fix initial effort, which went high over the bar). Edited May 16, 2011 by Albert's Ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 16, 2011 Members Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I've always thought Cairney's form dipped when he was switched to centre mid from the right hand side of midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I've always thought Cairney's form dipped when he was switched to centre mid from the right hand side of midfield. True, and the current manager seems to favour a set up which gives Erskine the freedom to go where he likes which makes him the midfield player most likely to score goals. Hopefully he'll try to work out something which allows players like Erskine, Cairney, Bannigan, etc. take turns at getting in and around the box to have a pop at goal. The advantage of that would be the opposition can't be sure who to look out for whereas I can see next season a lot of teams just putting someone on Erskine to keep him out of the game. Edited May 17, 2011 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 The 6-1 victory over the binos at firhill more than doubled our goals scored record at home up to that point of the campaign. I am confident that with a better start and a more attacking formation under Jaggy Mac we do have goals in the squad. Also a couple of experienced additions could make all the difference ala Hardie at Pars. Play as you pay deal could be way forward. No title challenge will result in attendances staying at these dangerously low levels. If we challenge I would hope we could get 2,750 to 3,000 home fans back. Especially since ticket prices have been frozen, hope five ticket match deal makes a reappearance. If so gcould be touted(in a good way) to opposition fans for sale on their buses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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