Where Do We Go From Here?

[uberteeb]

People were bleating on about finishing top 4 and how that would be a good season. Even if we do it is a false position, we are 30 points from the top and only 10 from the bottom.

 

We will lose Paul Cairnery in the summer.

 

We have, in my opinion, some of the best players in the division in Doolan, Erskine and Sinclair, unfortunately the other is for the off. I think with a more experienced manager we have a chance at winning the league next season. A manager who knows how to change things, a manager who can organise them properly and a manager who can instil the confidence to win the games we should be winning (like yesterday and countless others).

 

I think this Welsh character is not bad. We need someone who can play on the right, a proper pacey winger, can O'Donnell or Elliot do this or do we need someone else? With Doolan and McGuigan up front in a traditional big man wee man combo (despite Doolan not being that wee and very strong on the ball) and Sinclair/Erskine on the left and O'Donnell (or Paton)/Right Winger (or O'Donnell) on the right we can really hurt teams.

 

With those 6 players attacking we will be okay with Rowson and Welsh in the middle. Bannigan has blossomed since he has had a wee run in the team and he would offer us something in there as well. But if we had Rowson (or Bannigan) and Cairney in there we would be brilliant. PC demands the attention of the opposition meaning there will be space out wide which is where we should be dangerous. Without committing financial suicide we need to keep PC, the board need to find the money for this somehow, treble his wages, make him the focus of our team, sign him up for 2 years with a buy out clause in the event we don't go up next season and he really wants to go.

 

At the back, I know it's controversial but Archie out. Legend, etc. but his legs are gone. We need a new CB to partner Kinningburger. Give Big Willie the armband, make him the leader of that back line, I think he is good enough to do this.

 

For me the weak link in all of this is McNamara. So we need a new manager, a new CB and someone to play on the right wing. A new striker would be good but they are rare and its a bit of a lottery finding one with no money. We have most of the weapons, we just need a better commander.

 

Thoughts?

[Jaggernaut]

Archie is OK for another season, though another, commanding centre-half wouldn't go amiss. I see Scott Boyd is out of contract at Ross County, but the chances are he'll be kept on there for continuity (and the fact that they're damned hard to beat with him there). I thought O'Donnell was really pretty good in the first half yesterday, marauding down the right wing. He, unlike Paton, has the pace to get past defenders either inside or outside. Although we may well have Bannigan in midfield alongside Rowson, I'm not sure he'll be strong enough to do precisely what Cairney is doing for us right now. That's why I wrote earlier that he's like the Cairney of 3 seasons ago, looking like he has lots of potential and hunger. Welsh can hit a good pass, but since his brilliant game at Dumfries a few weeks ago he's gone a bit flat.

[MWM]

Goalkeeper, defence are largely fine IMO. O'Donnell is never a right back, but could be a good winger as he showed in his first couple of games. Need minimum another player to replace Cairney and at least two attacking players. All we have is Doolan. Would try and ship out Fraser, he doesn't cut it at all. Have a feeling we might have to replace Doolan and Erskine as well sadly. The true test of McNamara will be replacing our best players who were mostly signed by McCall and not him.

[uberteeb]

O'Donnell works as right back I think, attack is the best form of defense, with an Erskine-esque right wing in front of him it would be a lethal combination, English commentators are forever telling us that Brazillian full backs can't defend...if it's good enough for them and all that.

[Fearchar]

The biggest need isn't for a particular player or position to be filled - it's for someone on the park that won't accept defeat and will keep the others trying. That could be a new team captain (although, in the past, Boab, who wasn't the captain, fulfilled that role), and Archie is the obvious one to be dropped from playing because he's too slow now. Even if he doesn't hang up his boots, next season will see him spending more time off the park due to injuries and bookings. It may be that Robertson takes his place as leader of the defence (neither Fox nor Scully does this), and even of the whole team.

 

It would be unwise to rely too much on Rowson either, for the same reason: age will tell in the end. Yesterday's game showed just how soft-centred our midfield can be.

 

It's extremely unlikely that MacNamara will leave, and although he has some learning to do the alternatives in Scotland look dire. He and Donnelly deserve credit for raising the standard of football, but as long as the bench is occupied by quiet men, then someone more abrasive and dominant is needed on the park.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Fearchar

[Fawlty Towers]

People were bleating on about finishing top 4 and how that would be a good season. Even if we do it is a false position, we are 30 points from the top and only 10 from the bottom.

 

We will lose Paul Cairnery in the summer.

 

We have, in my opinion, some of the best players in the division in Doolan, Erskine and Sinclair, unfortunately the other is for the off. I think with a more experienced manager we have a chance at winning the league next season. A manager who knows how to change things, a manager who can organise them properly and a manager who can instil the confidence to win the games we should be winning (like yesterday and countless others).

 

I think this Welsh character is not bad. We need someone who can play on the right, a proper pacey winger, can O'Donnell or Elliot do this or do we need someone else? With Doolan and McGuigan up front in a traditional big man wee man combo (despite Doolan not being that wee and very strong on the ball) and Sinclair/Erskine on the left and O'Donnell (or Paton)/Right Winger (or O'Donnell) on the right we can really hurt teams.

 

With those 6 players attacking we will be okay with Rowson and Welsh in the middle. Bannigan has blossomed since he has had a wee run in the team and he would offer us something in there as well. But if we had Rowson (or Bannigan) and Cairney in there we would be brilliant. PC demands the attention of the opposition meaning there will be space out wide which is where we should be dangerous. Without committing financial suicide we need to keep PC, the board need to find the money for this somehow, treble his wages, make him the focus of our team, sign him up for 2 years with a buy out clause in the event we don't go up next season and he really wants to go.

 

At the back, I know it's controversial but Archie out. Legend, etc. but his legs are gone. We need a new CB to partner Kinningburger. Give Big Willie the armband, make him the leader of that back line, I think he is good enough to do this.

 

For me the weak link in all of this is McNamara. So we need a new manager, a new CB and someone to play on the right wing. A new striker would be good but they are rare and its a bit of a lottery finding one with no money. We have most of the weapons, we just need a better commander.

 

Thoughts?

 

I agree that we have some excellent players but I disagree about needing a new manager (you won't be shocked at that).

 

A lot depends on what players we can keep and if Jackie can get the targets he wants if some of the current squad do leave.

 

If we can get a good take up on the season tickets initiatives that could help the situation.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Fawlty Towers

[Woodstock Jag]

I think we're fine with Jackie but people need a slight reality check. He's probably going to get his budget cut *again* next season with the Warriors off. That'll probably leave us to plug a £150-200k gap in terms of the lump payment and pitch maintenance to take over again.

[The Legend Blows]

We'll release a few players in the summer. Cairney will go, Paton will stay, McNamara will stay. Archibald will continue to get a game. We'll sign a few mediocre lower league/junior players. We'll have a poor pre season, an average start to the campaign, pick up a bit mid season then it'll all fizzle out due to to many draws. Thread over, see you all this time next season for 2013/2014 predictions.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

Martin/Woodstock, really interested as to why you guys are so firmly in camp McNamara? Results this season (with a few exceptions) have been average at best, with the SAME old stories trotted out after each disappointing draw/defeat. Further, the cup competitions have been an adject failure. Losing to Berwick Rangers and QOTS at home is simply unacceptable. The QOTS game was sickening.

 

I can't get excited by McNamara, although I can't really see who would replace him. Also, can't be dealing with all this "boohoo budget cut" rubbish. McNamara has got the players he has wanted/needed at different times of the season. While guys like Sean Welsh/Conrad Balatoni/Mark McGuigan won't be on much they are signings. Instead of bleating we should look at some of the complete wasters that McNamara has employed - Thomas Stewart/Christie Elliot and the decision to pay Ryan MacBeth for not doing ANYTHING. There are others.

 

Next season is massive for the club and McNamara. We need to do something, mid table nonsense will continue to see crowds dwindle.

[Trotter]

Martin/Woodstock, really interested as to why you guys are so firmly in camp McNamara? Results this season (with a few exceptions) have been average at best, with the SAME old stories trotted out after each disappointing draw/defeat. Further, the cup competitions have been an adject failure. Losing to Berwick Rangers and QOTS at home is simply unacceptable. The QOTS game was sickening.

 

I can't get excited by McNamara, although I can't really see who would replace him. Also, can't be dealing with all this "boohoo budget cut" rubbish. McNamara has got the players he has wanted/needed at different times of the season. While guys like Sean Welsh/Conrad Balatoni/Mark McGuigan won't be on much they are signings. Instead of bleating we should look at some of the complete wasters that McNamara has employed - Thomas Stewart/Christie Elliot and the decision to pay Ryan MacBeth for not doing ANYTHING. There are others.

 

Next season is massive for the club and McNamara. We need to do something, mid table nonsense will continue to see crowds dwindle.

 

I think the start is crucial. I'm with yourself & Uberteeb in thinking McNamara not the man for the job and if you include myself in a group of 8 season ticket holders that sit almost together, 4 others are of similar thinking to myself. Two are of the 'unsure, depends who else is lined up to take over' opinion -which, imo, is code for dissatisfied with present incumbant - and only one definitely is for giving him next season.

 

I would like someone to honestly come on here and tell me what progress we have made in the year since McNamara took over, initially as caretaker. He still is tinkering with formations and where best to play players & signings like Scott Robertson & Christie Elliot have been less than successful imo. Tommy Stewart & Kal Naismith could be added to that list also.

 

I don't buy the 'we're playing good football' nonsense. Pretty patterns across the pitch are no good if you're not creating chances. The Hamilton away game and QOTS home game at the turn of the year were as bad as anything i've witnessed in a long time following Thistle. I think we had about 1 shot on target in both games. I can only imagine what would have been said if it was Dick Campbell or a Tommy Bryce to name but 2.

 

We're not progressing and if anything we're going back the way. As the man says:

 

We'll release a few players in the summer. Cairney will go, Paton will stay, McNamara will stay. Archibald will continue to get a game. We'll sign a few mediocre lower league/junior players. We'll have a poor pre season, an average start to the campaign, pick up a bit mid season then it'll all fizzle out due to to many draws. Thread over, see you all this time next season for 2013/2014 predictions.

 

Except this time next year might be too late for some.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Trotter

[twinny]

Martin/Woodstock, really interested as to why you guys are so firmly in camp McNamara? Results this season (with a few exceptions) have been average at best, with the SAME old stories trotted out after each disappointing draw/defeat. Further, the cup competitions have been an adject failure. Losing to Berwick Rangers and QOTS at home is simply unacceptable. The QOTS game was sickening.

 

I can't get excited by McNamara, although I can't really see who would replace him. Also, can't be dealing with all this "boohoo budget cut" rubbish. McNamara has got the players he has wanted/needed at different times of the season. While guys like Sean Welsh/Conrad Balatoni/Mark McGuigan won't be on much they are signings. Instead of bleating we should look at some of the complete wasters that McNamara has employed - Thomas Stewart/Christie Elliot and the decision to pay Ryan MacBeth for not doing ANYTHING. There are others.

 

Next season is massive for the club and McNamara. We need to do something, mid table nonsense will continue to see crowds dwindle.

 

I'm in the same camp as the two you're asking. Not for any reason other than I believe consistency/continuity in the clubs hierarchy is important for any club to achieve anything.

 

No fan could see why Falkirk should have kept Pressley on after last season, they were playing ineffective passing football that couldn't generate many chances, he's turned that round. This season we've mainly been doing what they did last season, passing the ball well with little end product. While there is no guarantee we can turn this around, I'd prefer to give Jackie the chance as if we were to bring in another new manager, that's another couple of years before we challenge while they get their own team in, which so many managers needlessly do.

[Third Lanark]

I'm in the same camp as the two you're asking. Not for any reason other than I believe consistency/continuity in the clubs hierarchy is important for any club to achieve anything.

 

No fan could see why Falkirk should have kept Pressley on after last season, they were playing ineffective passing football that couldn't generate many chances, he's turned that round. This season we've mainly been doing what they did last season, passing the ball well with little end product. While there is no guarantee we can turn this around, I'd prefer to give Jackie the chance as if we were to bring in another new manager, that's another couple of years before we challenge while they get their own team in, which so many managers needlessly do.

In our first season down from the SPL we ended up relegated to the Second divison, Falkirk finished third, hardly a sackable offence. Additionally did Falkirk not get to the semi final of the League cup or something? Im not in the sack McNamara camp, im just saying not exactly sure what else Falkirk fans were expecting on their first season down, as aside from Inverness there are not many teams bounce back up to the SPL straight away Edited April 17, 2012 by Third Lanark

[Lambies Lost Doo]

It may be a hit on our finances but I think no rugby on the pitch will lead to better football and improved results. McNamara has the team playing football which I enjoy but the bobbles and ruts slow down movement and passing on the pitch.

[uberteeb]

It may be a hit on our finances but I think no rugby on the pitch will lead to better football and improved results. McNamara has the team playing football which I enjoy but the bobbles and ruts slow down movement and passing on the pitch.

 

The pitch really hasn't been that bad at all this season, whilst the pitch will be a bit better next season with no egg chasing that by no means leads to us being a better football team. The pitch has nothing to do with our constant passing backwards, our players controlling the ball facing our own goal and taking it 3 or 4 yards back the way before turning and looking for a sideways pass, it has nothing to do with our inability to defend corners or attack corners, it has nothing to do with our reluctance to shoot from the edge of the box and so on and so forth.

[Jaggernaut]

We'll release a few players in the summer. Cairney will go, Paton will stay, McNamara will stay. Archibald will continue to get a game. We'll sign a few mediocre lower league/junior players. We'll have a poor pre season, an average start to the campaign, pick up a bit mid season then it'll all fizzle out due to to many draws. Thread over, see you all this time next season for 2013/2014 predictions.

 

Will your underpants still be hanging out to dry?

[Woodstock Jag]

Martin/Woodstock, really interested as to why you guys are so firmly in camp McNamara? Results this season (with a few exceptions) have been average at best, with the SAME old stories trotted out after each disappointing draw/defeat. Further, the cup competitions have been an adject failure. Losing to Berwick Rangers and QOTS at home is simply unacceptable. The QOTS game was sickening.

 

Because we're financially screwed, there's nothing to be gained from disrupting things and for his first full season in management he's not done *that* badly. The Cups have been a disappointment, but not a sackable offence.

[Steven H]

I think it's fair to say we have had a typical Thistle season...great in places, horrible in others. I can see potential (and pretty sure the 'doubters' do to) and think McNamara should be given at least next season to see if he is the one to fulfill it. Regardless, he aint goin anywhere...did no-one see the Daily Record last week where he was described as 'working wonders with a shoestring budget and in the face of numerous setbacks'? That's spinning things a bit eh? How about 'done ok with a reduced budget than last season. disappointing in cups, inconsistent throughout, but with a much younger team than in years gone by it hasn't been a bad season...hasn't been a great one either'? I'd say the latter is accurate and not even close to being worthy of the sack.

[Fearchar]

Here's some more food for thought: does the manager really matter?

 

It may be that the throughput from scouts and/or youth teams means more to eventual success than whoever happens to be taking the training and sitting in the dugout.

[Duck snort]

Given that we have an inexperienced manager and a lot of inexperienced players it's hardly a surprise we've been so inconsistent this season. I'm in the camp that thinks McNamara should definitely get the chance to build on his 1st season and continue the development of the likes of Sinclair, O'Donnell, Bannigan, Elliott etc.

 

I just don't see the point in giving up on a manager so quickly.

[Fawlty Towers]

Martin/Woodstock, really interested as to why you guys are so firmly in camp McNamara? Results this season (with a few exceptions) have been average at best, with the SAME old stories trotted out after each disappointing draw/defeat. Further, the cup competitions have been an adject failure. Losing to Berwick Rangers and QOTS at home is simply unacceptable. The QOTS game was sickening.

 

I can't get excited by McNamara, although I can't really see who would replace him. Also, can't be dealing with all this "boohoo budget cut" rubbish. McNamara has got the players he has wanted/needed at different times of the season. While guys like Sean Welsh/Conrad Balatoni/Mark McGuigan won't be on much they are signings. Instead of bleating we should look at some of the complete wasters that McNamara has employed - Thomas Stewart/Christie Elliot and the decision to pay Ryan MacBeth for not doing ANYTHING. There are others.

 

Next season is massive for the club and McNamara. We need to do something, mid table nonsense will continue to see crowds dwindle.

 

I think that his signings have been, for the most part, decent and he wants to play entertaining football. He has come through his first full season and will now have to put what he has learnt in to practice over the summer so that we can kick on next season. There are, of course, things that need to be improved upon and Jackie (like any manager) will have to deal with those to avoid bringing pressure on himself.

 

Possibly not the most satisfactory answer but I just have a feeling that he will prove to be a good manager for us if we give him the time.

[Dark Passenger]

I think that his signings have been, for the most part, decent

 

Can someone list Jackie's signings, please?

[Fawlty Towers]

Can someone list Jackie's signings, please?

 

I will give it a go:

 

Conrad Balatoni

Darren Cole

Craig Dargo

Christie Elliott

Iain Flannigan

Kyle Hutton

Johnny Lindsay

Mark McGuigan

Kal Naismith

Stephen O'Donnell

Scott Robertson

Aaron Sinclair

Tommy Stewart

Sean Welsh

 

Flannigan and Stewart were already here and Jackie offered them new deals, I think that is it.

[Third Lanark]

I will give it a go:

 

Conrad Balatoni

Darren Cole

Craig Dargo

Christie Elliott

Iain Flannigan

Kyle Hutton

Johnny Lindsay

Mark McGuigan

Kal Naismith

Stephen O'Donnell

Scott Robertson

Aaron Sinclair

Tommy Stewart

Sean Welsh

 

Flannigan and Stewart were already here and Jackie offered them new deals, I think that is it.

I think McCall originally took Stewart on a short term deal by Jackies recommendation as Jackie knew him from his time at Wolves

[GrantB]

I will give it a go:

 

Conrad Balatoni

Darren Cole

Craig Dargo

Christie Elliott

Iain Flannigan

Kyle Hutton

Johnny Lindsay

Mark McGuigan

Kal Naismith

Stephen O'Donnell

Scott Robertson

Aaron Sinclair

Tommy Stewart

Sean Welsh

 

Flannigan and Stewart were already here and Jackie offered them new deals, I think that is it.

 

Flannigan was signed by McCall as was Balatoni (although that was apparently on McNamara's recommendation)

[Fawlty Towers]

Included guys who were signed originally by McCall but brought back or were given new deals by Jackie as those were decisions he made so help form a judgement on his transfer dealings.