Jambos Going.....going.....gone ?

[scotty]

I said this during the Rangers saga and I'll say it again, individual clubs will struggle, head for the wall and some of them will go into liquidation until Scottish football gets itself sorted out long term.

During the many months that Rangers were teetering, the cry resounding from fans, media and (a few) club boards and chairmen was restructuring. Not just the league set ups but the whole way that football is organised here.

How long did that last?

We're now back into the short term way of surviving. Hearts fans are being asked to put their hands into their pockets to bail their club out. Why? To keep them afloat until the end of the season when they can sell a few players and then it's back to business as usual. SPL clubs are just waiting for Rangers to return to the SPL and are probably tailoring their finances slightly to hold out for the three years to pass and they can get their hands on the share of the TV money they all think is their salvation. Just as long as they don't have to share it with too many other clubs!

Even on here we've got Jags fans getting excited about getting back into the self preservation league. Will we be calling for huge debts to stay there once we have reached those dizzy heights?

Hopefully this latest difficulty for a club "too big to fail" will once and for all shake up the football authorities in this country and at last, something will get done.

But I doubt it!

[general george]

Any club who has a long history of financial mismanagement and attaining success off the back of it is fair game for going out of business, IMO.

 

And **** the fans, you never hear a peep when money that clubs don't have is being thrown at players to achieve success. Don't think I'll suddenly start feeling sorry for them tbh now they're skint.

 

We've grubbed it in the lower leagues for years watching endless amounts of shite because we never went down the road of clubs like Dunfermline and its been pretty shite. High time these clubs suffer.

It could quite easily have been us if Forffar Athletic had demanded payment for Alan Morgan when it was due! We bought him when we couldn't afford it if my memory serves me correctly! I for one don't want to see the demise of Hearts or any football club for that matter!

[scottymagoo]

To be fair Hearts have been in the financial and administrative do-do for as long as I can remember. In addition Romanov is a prima facia nut and if the SFA actually did their job how in God's name could he ever be a fit and proper person? bit of a shame and all, but I,ve never liked the Yams too much of the Currant Buns about them for my liking.. And as I never tire of telling I got hit with a pie at Tynecastle and on my first visit there I got called a "Glasgae ****** b*stard"- quite how how the respectable looking guy discerned that from my Thistle scarf I don't really know, but hey it takes all kinds. I for one will not revel in Hearts' misfortunes, but I sure as hell won't be shedding any crocodile tears.

 

It's not the SFA's job to rule a potential owner a fit and proper person. From a legal standpoint the SFA can't really get in the way of one person selling a business they own to another person who wants to legally buy it and for this reason SFA rules puts the onus onto the selling party to ensure they are selling to a fit and proper person. The whole "what were the SFA doing" was total nonsense used by the ill-informed to try and pass the blame of Craig Whytes ownership over to the SFA rather than squarely with Sir David Murray where it belongs.

[Airdrie Jag]

The Herald this morning reports that the Scottish government says it will bail out Hearts (nice phrase for a sinking ship) rather than let them go bust. Bet that's going down well Govan way.

 

 

Flats, flats, glorious flats.....

 

Sam the Scottish Government have said no such thing. The Herald story does not match the headline. The relevant quote in the story is:

 

"A Government spokesman said: "The Scottish Government stands ready to assist in any way it can, including making contact with HMRC if necessary.

"It is in everyone's interests to find a solution which ensures Hearts can continue in business while also meeting their obligations to the tax authorities."

 

That is precisely the help they have given to other clubs, including Rangers.

[MerryHell]

If I understand the situation ...

 

If the fans manage to stump up the £400k or so needed to cover this bill, there is the very real possiblity that the club will turn to them again if the HMRC court case doesn't go in their favour. That's another £1.5m. Then they are expected to also 'invest' in the share issue. That's nearly £4m the club are expecting the fans to cough up, just to cover expenses to see them to the end of the season.

 

Difficult to see how this can end without at least administration.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

If Hearts were to get liquidated then the precedent was set last year, they can be a new club in the same colours with the same badge and play at the same ground using the same name and play in the Third Division.

That may be correct but use of the word "precedent" is dodgy in Scottish football parlance. That kinda implies that there's hard and fast rules in place to deal with each club on an equal footing. We all know that buck passing between the various authorities (if you can call them that) more or less ensures a make it up as we go along policy.

As I see it the only new rule in place is a scaled point reduction (17pts I believe in this instance) for entering administration. That could relegate a downscaled Hearts but even that's by no means certain. The cynic in me edges towards Hearts somehow going down the administration road as opposed to immediate liquidation and it wouldn't surprise me if the Motherwell Rule was reintroduced at the end of the season.

But aside from all that, how much revenue would Hearts anticipate from a cup game against Hibs? I can only imagine they would've been expecting a run of the mill tie with a nominal return but now they've got a match that will generate considerable income. Would this unexpected extra income not go a long way to covering the £450K? My cynics bunnet is back on.

[Vladimir Putin]

The only teams in Scotland I ever wanted to see go bust were Rangers, who thankfully did, and Celtic, who hopefully will.

I think some of the stuff on this thread is really uncalled for. I know a lot of Hearts fans, none of whom ever supported Rangers, and all of whom were genuine Scottish football fans. And the same goes for Killie, incidentally. Did Hearts or Killie ever groundshare with Rangers, or host Orange marches at their stadium? Someone could look at us and brand us ‘h*ns in disguise’. This label is too offensive to throw around, yes, they have a few headcases in their support, but who doesn't? We certainly do, but I wouldn't want other people to judge us based on them.

I feel confident when I say that the vast majority of Hearts fans support Hearts, and no-one else. Do I want them to lose their team and spend Saturdays watching the EPL and looking at old programmes? Of course not.

Yes, the second vote was a low point, but it wasn't Hearts fans who voted that way. I personally think it would be a tragedy if Hearts and Tynecastle disappear, they are a big part of Scottish football as I know it, and any comparison with Rangers is a joke, to be honest.

[KAWB]

3rd Division might soon resemble the SPL from a year ago if a few more teams go bust. Wouldn't be suprised to see another few follow.

[Norgethistle]

If Hearts were to get liquidated then the precedent was set last year, they can be a new club in the same colours with the same badge and play at the same ground using the same name and play in the Third Division.

 

Lets just wait to see what happens on that one the oldco isn't formally liquidated yet so no action on that matter can be taken, but once BDO finally shut it down Hector looks like he will come hunting them again*

 

*(Aparently to keep myself, or my friend at portculless house right )

[MerryHell]

3rd Division might soon resemble the SPL from a year ago if a few more teams go bust. Wouldn't be suprised to see another few follow.

 

Is this what was meant as SPL2?

[GrantB]

Where Hearts and R*ngers differ is the land value of the stadium. Ibrox is in a third world hellhole where the land is worth next to nothing. Tynecastle is a potential gold mine for property developers hence if Hearts did end up being liquidated, it is highly unlikely any newco would play there.

 

I dont want to see Hearts out of business, I would like to see them and all the other overspenders have to cut their financial cloth accordingly and learn a bit of humility. We've already had a few seasons in Div 2, lets see Hearts, Dunfermline et-al have their turn.

[Vladimir Putin]

There is a beautiful irony about all these clubs with h un tendencies going out of buisness. First we had Airdrie, then R*ngers and now the Jambos. K*llie next???

 

 

 

I dont want to see Hearts out of business,

 

Make up your mind.

 

I can understand Thistle fans wanting Rangers and Celtic to go bust, I celebrated as much as anyone over the summer when the Rangers saga unfolded. But Hearts? Are we really so bitter that we want them to go bust because of how their Board voted 10 years ago, or because they have a few mental supporters?

[GrantB]

Make up your mind.

 

I can understand Thistle fans wanting Rangers and Celtic to go bust, I celebrated as much as anyone over the summer when the Rangers saga unfolded. But Hearts? Are we really so bitter that we want them to go bust because of how their Board voted 10 years ago, or because they have a few mental supporters?

 

I said it was a beautiful irony, not that I wanted them to go bust. I did want R*ngers to go bust and I'm still seething that they are allowed to exist in any shape or form at all. For the record, I dont want K*llie to go bust either, just relocated to Div 3 for a good few years.

[Jaggernaut]

Make up your mind.

 

I can understand Thistle fans wanting Rangers and Celtic to go bust, I celebrated as much as anyone over the summer when the Rangers saga unfolded. But Hearts? Are we really so bitter that we want them to go bust because of how their Board voted 10 years ago, or because they have a few mental supporters?

 

Yes. Thank you for making it so clear.

[gianlucatoni]

is it not a bit ironic that the jam tarts are being threatened with being wound up over a tax bill - for about the same amount Levein will pocket for the remainder of his (sacked) contract ... i'm sure the former jambo will bail them out (don't hold your breath)

[Guy Incognito]

Compared to Rangers, Hearts' tax bill is pocket change. £400k - that's a few top level bankers' annual bonuses. There must surely be enough wealthy people in and around Edinburgh prepared to club together and settle that relatively small debt.

[MWM]

It could quite easily have been us if Forffar Athletic had demanded payment for Alan Morgan when it was due! We bought him when we couldn't afford it if my memory serves me correctly! I for one don't want to see the demise of Hearts or any football club for that matter!

Oh of course, the 40k which we owed Forfar (and eventually paid back) is comparable to the seven figure sums of money these clubs were spunking on players and had/have no intentions of ever paying back the mountains of debt run up as a result!

Edited November 9, 2012 by MWM

[peagreenboy]

Reported on 5Live tonight that five other clubs in Scotland are heading into financial difficulty, although precisely who they don't clarify.

[G SUS]

Reported on 5Live tonight that five other clubs in Scotland are heading into financial difficulty, although precisely who they don't clarify.

 

Dunfermline need to pay £81K to HMRC by the 21st of November or they are in deep deep doo-doo. Administration at the least.

[Trotter]

 

 

Dunfermline need to pay £81K to HMRC by the 21st of November or they are in deep deep doo-doo. Administration at the least.

 

That was from a 'The Rangers' follower on Twitter from a 'reliable' poster.

 

Something about there being a meeting held last night, £81k owed to HMRC & no money for wages this month & needing to cut costs by £300k-£400k a year.

 

They're apparently asking for volunteers, stewarding, IT support, tradesmen, etc

 

Doesn't doing good for them!

 

For us....

Edited November 9, 2012 by Trotter

[Dick Dastardly]

Compared to Rangers, Hearts' tax bill is pocket change. £400k - that's a few top level bankers' annual bonuses. There must surely be enough wealthy people in and around Edinburgh prepared to club together and settle that relatively small debt.

The £400k is probably not the problem, certainly if that was the only debt, the money could be found. However that is just the start, there is over £20 million owed to Mad Vlad and maybe another £1.7 million to HMRC if they decide that the players loaned from Kaunas should pay tax in the UK. There are probably other debts too, so any benefactor would really need to stump up £25 million just to cover the debts. The £400k would, I suspect, only buy them a few weeks.

 

If the £81 million at Dunfermline is true, that is totally shocking.

[Jaggernaut]

 

 

If the £81 million at Dunfermline is true, that is totally shocking.

 

I think it's £81K, not £81M.

[Vladimir Putin]

Yes. Thank you for making it so clear.

 

Well I think that's quite sad.

 

What would the reaction have been on here if we had got Hearts away in the Cup? Everyone would have been right up for a day at Tynecastle, the fans would have been in full voice, and it's a great stadium. And you want to see them replaced with Cove Rangers or Gala Fairydean (no disrespect intended to those two clubs)?

 

I thought Scottish football had, to a certain extent, united over the summer in order to take a stand against Rangers, and Hearts fans were no different. I find it a bit sad that some of us seem to want to dance on their grave because of a ten year-old decision taken by their BoD. Don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to them spending a few years, or more, in the lower leagues, and perhaps that is what they deserve. But I don't want to see them disappear.

[Jaggernaut]

Well I think that's quite sad.

 

What would the reaction have been on here if we had got Hearts away in the Cup? Everyone would have been right up for a day at Tynecastle, the fans would have been in full voice, and it's a great stadium. And you want to see them replaced with Cove Rangers or Gala Fairydean (no disrespect intended to those two clubs)?

 

I thought Scottish football had, to a certain extent, united over the summer in order to take a stand against Rangers, and Hearts fans were no different. I find it a bit sad that some of us seem to want to dance on their grave because of a ten year-old decision taken by their BoD. Don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to them spending a few years, or more, in the lower leagues, and perhaps that is what they deserve. But I don't want to see them disappear.

 

As I said previously, I'm indifferent, rather than actually wanting their demise.

 

About Gala Fairydean: back in the dark old days around the time of Save The Jags, we were due to play GF in a pre-season friendly. I remember on the way out of another match two guys were talking about some big foreign clubs that were coming to play at either Parkhead or Ibrox. One of them then mentioned that our next match was against Gala Fairydean, and his 7-8-year-old son asked him "What country are they from"?

Edited November 9, 2012 by Jaggernaut

[general george]

Oh of course, the 40k which we owed Forfar (and eventually paid back) is comparable to the seven figure sums of money these clubs were spunking on players and had/have no intentions of ever paying back the mountains of debt run up as a result!

The amount is irrelevant, of course we eventually paid it back, however we still spent money we did not have and it could have sent us under but for Forfar's generosity.