Hugh Murray

[jagfox]

What is it with ex-St Midden captains winding down their careers at Firhill? Curse of Aber?

[Chicofan]

so one of the better players yesterday doing what most of the other players have done (but maybe not caught) ahh scapegoat jumps to mind

 

Getting sent off 3 times in half a season is unacceptable no matter if he's a thug or not..he was brought in to do a job and lead by example he's failed miserably..and I must add the 3 times I have seen him in the flesh this season he has been pish..too slow for our team..i would rather have rowser in there.

[1876Jag]

Murray squares up to someone and doesn't make contact. 2nd yellow. Crucify him screams the forum.

 

Archie breaks Dougie Imrie's nose with a headbutt. Straight red. A year later we make him manager with all the fans behind him.

 

Seems that we endorse thuggish behaviour at our club......double standards anyone?

[1876Jag]

 

 

Getting sent off 3 times in half a season is unacceptable no matter if he's a thug or not..he was brought in to do a job and lead by example he's failed miserably..and I must add the 3 times I have seen him in the flesh this season he has been pish..too slow for our team..i would rather have rowser in there.

 

Rowser who barely played all season and left?

 

Murray played fine the first 10 or so games.

[Lenziejag]

I don't understand, 1876. It's ok for him to take the chance of getting sent off in such an important game.He was in there for his experience( see Archie's comments ). Some supporters are angry because of the particular circumstances of yesterday's game. His actions could potentially have finished our league challenge if we had lost.

[Meister Jag]

In the first half I thought Murray played as well as he has at any point this season, and I thought starting him was a mini-masterstroke from Archie. Murray is a limited player but he did what is expected of him: he broke up play, won the ball and moved it on. In the second half, however, the game largely passed him by, and the reaction which led to him being sent off was just the height of stupidity. He had won the free-kick, there was absolutely no need for him to react the way he did.

 

Agree that he played well in the first and credit to Morton for bringing on Hardie when they did (good tactical move on their part; although maybe I shouldn't say that!). I watched the incident and wondered if the Morton player would have even been booked if murray hadn't reacted. Short of going into his face, did he actually nut him? I mean, okay, it looked threatening but he'd just been dumped on his **** big time.

 

In truth, had we got a third it would have been game over even with Murray taking an early bath. Morton only seemed to threaten with long range efforts and our defending for their first was suspect. But bearing in mind that this was our first competetive game in yonks, we were still the only football team on the pitch. (have to also confess that the Morton fans raised a smile with their 2-0 chant... you dish it out, you've got to take it back!)

[1876Jag]

I don't understand, 1876. It's ok for him to take the chance of getting sent off in such an important game.He was in there for his experience( see Archie's comments ). Some supporters are angry because of the particular circumstances of yesterday's game. His actions could potentially have finished our league challenge if we had lost.

 

1. His action luckily did not cost us the game or the league, fortunately. I think he was stupid beyond belief to show any reaction and I gave him dogs abuse as he went off but Welsh, Forbes and Paton have actually cost us points by their indiscipline this season but don't receive anywhere near the criticism. To have a go about the card at Forfar is also a joke; it was a dubious last man challenge, we still won and Muirhead did the same after 20 minutes against Dunfermline.

 

2. People are labelling Murray a thug - my point is our interim manager has done a lot worse and caused damage to an opponent but that is conveniently forgotten. Murray's first red card at Cappielow was a mistimed challenge that caused an unfortunate leg break. But it was a 2nd yellow, not straight red and he also apologised to the player the following day. Hardly the behaviour of a dangerous thug.

[The Earl of Hathaway]

Actually, looking at it now from the You Tube clip, I'm more f*cking hacked off with Murray for the penalty than I am for the subsequent second yellow. I thought he was an experienced footballer, not a member of the Harlem Globetrotters judging by how much palm he got on that one.

As for the Archie argument, I'm not buying into that one. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but he's been sent off 3 times playing for Thistle:

 

vs Stirling Albion (the Zahani_Oni 'racist' game)

vs Ross Coonty (dubious at best)

vs Hamilton (stuck the heid on Imrie or just movement towards?)

 

Murray has been sent off twice this season against Morton, in front of a fanbase who are well aware of his history and judging by the 100 metre sprint from back to front of Cowshed on his sending-off yesterday, can't wait to remind him of it. If he can't stop himself getting wound up by it, or can't use it to fuel a better footballing engine, then he has to admit he's a weaker footballer than an 18 year career would suggest. Alternatively, if his career aspires to getting bought drinks forever in The Wee Barrel in Paisley on the basis of 'I showed those Morton c*nts a thing or two' he's probably doing just OK.

[Ancipital]

Actually, looking at it now from the You Tube clip, I'm more f*cking hacked off with Murray for the penalty than I am for the subsequent second yellow. I thought he was an experienced footballer, not a member of the Harlem Globetrotters judging by how much palm he got on that one.

As for the Archie argument, I'm not buying into that one. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but he's been sent off 3 times playing for Thistle:

 

vs Stirling Albion (the Zahani_Oni 'racist' game)

vs Ross Coonty (dubious at best)

vs Hamilton (stuck the heid on Imrie or just movement towards?)

 

Murray has been sent off twice this season against Morton, in front of a fanbase who are well aware of his history and judging by the 100 metre sprint from back to front of Cowshed on his sending-off yesterday, can't wait to remind him of it. If he can't stop himself getting wound up by it, or can't use it to fuel a better footballing engine, then he has to admit he's a weaker footballer than an 18 year career would suggest. Alternatively, if his career aspires to getting bought drinks forever in The Wee Barrel in Paisley on the basis of 'I showed those Morton c*nts a thing or two' he's probably doing just OK.

 

Archie's definitely been off more than that- once away to Stenny and once away to Dundee and that's only off the top of my head (I'd forgotten about the County one as I wasn't at that game).

 

I think the handball was more stupid having watched the youtube clip, I'd need to see the sending off again, I didn't think there was much in it but I was quite far away from it on the other side of the WDE. Not sure if McDonald got booked for the foul or for him squaring up as well- you could argue there was two bookable offences from him in there as well.

 

Do we know how many games he's going to be out for- must be 3 or 4 if that's his 3rd red of the season?

[Norgethistle]

 

 

2. People are labelling Murray a thug - my point is our interim manager has done a lot worse and caused damage to an opponent but that is conveniently forgotten. Murray's first red card at Cappielow was a mistimed challenge that caused an unfortunate leg break. But it was a 2nd yellow, not straight red and he also apologised to the player the following day. Hardly the behaviour of a dangerous thug.

 

I think Murrays and Archies stats speak for themselves in that

 

Archie - 555 Games 67 Bookings 6 Reds (1 card every 7.5 games)

Murray - 442 Games 110 Bookings 7 Reds (1 card every 3.5 games)

[The Earl of Hathaway]

I think Murrays and Archies stats speak for themselves in that

 

Archie - 555 Games 67 Bookings 6 Reds (1 card every 7.5 games)

Murray - 442 Games 110 Bookings 7 Reds (1 card every 3.5 games)

 

As noted above, I stand corrected on this one - he's actually been sent off six times: the three I mentioned, plus the two Ancipital spotted and one against Airdrie back in 2007 (this is all from Soccerbase - any one remember that one?) Overall, though, his disciplinary record as a defender is pretty exceptional...he ain't an angel but for a defender he's as solid as you'd get, but by the same token I'm not convinced that Murray's a thug. Just a bit of an ars*hole to allow it to happen twice in a season.

[Elginjag]

1. His action luckily did not cost us the game or the league, fortunately. I think he was stupid beyond belief to show any reaction and I gave him dogs abuse as he went off but Welsh, Forbes and Paton have actually cost us points by their indiscipline this season but don't receive anywhere near the criticism. To have a go about the card at Forfar is also a joke; it was a dubious last man challenge, we still won and Muirhead did the same after 20 minutes against Dunfermline.

 

2. People are labelling Murray a thug - my point is our interim manager has done a lot worse and caused damage to an opponent but that is conveniently forgotten. Murray's first red card at Cappielow was a mistimed challenge that caused an unfortunate leg break. But it was a 2nd yellow, not straight red and he also apologised to the player the following day. Hardly the behaviour of a dangerous thug.

 

Point 1. This is his third sending off in just over half a season. To be booked already and do what he did was blatant stupidity, no other way to look at it. Al the others may have cost points but that's a circumstance that cannot be used in comparison you can't predict what the outcome is going to be however the odds are swayed, but the other lads have gone ONCE.

I'm sure Murray is dissapointed with himself today looking back, damage done and it coulda been worse.

There's no comparing his and the other guys actions.

[Chicofan]

Rowser who barely played all season and left?

 

Murray played fine the first 10 or so games.

Sorry smart @rse..i should have said a fit David Rowson...he left because he wasn't getting a game...Murray couldnt lace Rowsons boots

[Jaggernaut]

Archie's definitely been off more than that- once away to Stenny and once away to Dundee and that's only off the top of my head (I'd forgotten about the County one as I wasn't at that game).

 

I think the handball was more stupid having watched the youtube clip, I'd need to see the sending off again, I didn't think there was much in it but I was quite far away from it on the other side of the WDE. Not sure if McDonald got booked for the foul or for him squaring up as well- you could argue there was two bookable offences from him in there as well.

 

Do we know how many games he's going to be out for- must be 3 or 4 if that's his 3rd red of the season?

 

Hope so, as the minimum.

[iain]

Some of this abuse of one of our players is ridiculous. Hugh Murray is not a thug nor is he stupid. He may have made some poor judgements at times and he has been unlucky at other times. In my opinion he always gives his best when playing and never hides on the park.

He is older but that doesn't make you immune to mistakes or getting upset. After the penalty incident he would have been hurting, then being bundled off the park would have hurt physically and McDonald should have been booked for what was a bad tackle. So he shouted a bit, not a booking to most refs. However if you book both for shouting McDonald should have been off too for the tackle and aggressive behaviour. Its easy to look hard done to when you've got your 'hit' in first.

Anyway enough is enough Murray will know he made a mistake and when he plays again, and we will need him, I hope he gets all our support.

[Chicofan]

Some of this abuse of one of our players is ridiculous. Hugh Murray is not a thug nor is he stupid. He may have made some poor judgements at times and he has been unlucky at other times. In my opinion he always gives his best when playing and never hides on the park.

He is older but that doesn't make you immune to mistakes or getting upset. After the penalty incident he would have been hurting, then being bundled off the park would have hurt physically and McDonald should have been booked for what was a bad tackle. So he shouted a bit, not a booking to most refs. However if you book both for shouting McDonald should have been off too for the tackle and aggressive behaviour. Its easy to look hard done to when you've got your 'hit' in first.

Anyway enough is enough Murray will know he made a mistake and when he plays again, and we will need him, I hope he gets all our support.

 

Well he certainly aint the brightest!

[John Blutarsky]

He is older but that doesn't make you immune to mistakes or getting upset. After the penalty incident he would have been hurting, then being bundled off the park would have hurt physically and McDonald should have been booked for what was a bad tackle. So he shouted a bit, not a booking to most refs. However if you book both for shouting McDonald should have been off too for the tackle and aggressive behaviour. Its easy to look hard done to when you've got your 'hit' in first.

Since play was restarted with a free kick to Morton, I don't think the ref considered it a bad tackle. He let a few industrial tackles go unpunished for both sides so at least he was consistent.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I think Murrays and Archies stats speak for themselves in that

 

Archie - 555 Games 67 Bookings 6 Reds (1 card every 7.5 games)

Murray - 442 Games 110 Bookings 7 Reds (1 card every 3.5 games)

Murray's stats aren't that bad for a defensive midfielder. Certainly not if you rewind to the very start of this season. One red every 100 plus games in fact was quite remarkable for his type of player. Another thing I find mildly interesting is that he's been booked around a 100 times without picking up a 2nd yellow.

 

Unfortunately that was then and all I'm concerned with is his last two ordering offs and specifically the cheap way he picked up the second yellow on both occasions. The red card up at Forfar was entirely excusable and I think he's only been booked once away from Cappielow.

 

I think it's fair to assume that Murray prior to joining us could never be called a liability and if he was a thug then he must have been a very lucky one. The big question is whether he's now a liability or not.

Edited February 18, 2013 by lady-isobel-barnett

[jagfox]

Burn the witch, burn the witch! Heretic Thistle?

[1876Jag]

 

Sorry smart @rse..i should have said a fit David Rowson...he left because he wasn't getting a game...Murray couldnt lace Rowsons boots

 

So based on all of your 3 games and only on Rowson's previous appearances and not this season's performances? What wonderful analysis.

 

The fact Rowson couldn't get into the team shows he wasn't good enough for this level anymore fit or not. And respect to him for acknowledging it.

[1876Jag]

 

 

Hope so, as the minimum.

 

Why don't we hope for a leg break as well to keep him out the side longer?

[1876Jag]

 

 

Point 1. This is his third sending off in just over half a season. To be booked already and do what he did was blatant stupidity, no other way to look at it. Al the others may have cost points but that's a circumstance that cannot be used in comparison you can't predict what the outcome is going to be however the odds are swayed, but the other lads have gone ONCE.

I'm sure Murray is dissapointed with himself today looking back, damage done and it coulda been worse.

There's no comparing his and the other guys actions.

 

Yes there is - it was poor discipline on 2 occasions (unlucky the first time) by Murray and poor discipline by the other players - Welsh for dissent and a lunge, Paton (straight red!) and Forbes for persistent fouling and a silly challenge.

 

So they are comparable and all avoidable.

[simoncordiner]

Comparing Murray with Archie inappropriate because the circumstances are different.

 

The nub of the issue for me is that Murray was in the team to be an example to the younger players. Before the game Archie said the key to the game was to keep 11 men on the park. Murray, as a senior player, was entrusted to uphold that, and he let himself, the team, and the fans down. Murray's sending off yesterday typified everything that is wrong with Thistle this year; our indiscipline is the largest threat to us winning the league.

[Meister Jag]

I think Murrays and Archies stats speak for themselves in that

 

Archie - 555 Games 67 Bookings 6 Reds (1 card every 7.5 games)

Murray - 442 Games 110 Bookings 7 Reds (1 card every 3.5 games)

 

I'm always wary of statistics as they often don't paint a true picture. Based on what you've presented an obvious explanation is that one player is simply better at getting away with stuff than another.

 

I know, I'm being a twisted **** but I think the guy is being singled out for some unfair and harsh criticism. To my mind until the red card (booking) incident he'd put in a great shift and had given his all for the Thistle jersey. For that, I can't fault him.

[redandyellowallover]

Not sure if McDonald got booked for the foul or for him squaring up as well- you could argue there was two bookable offences from him in there as well.

 

 

Spoke to a mate who's a ref and he said it's likely MacDonald would have been booked for the tackle and Murray for the aggressive behaviour.

 

I said the same to him about the two bookable offences and he said that as it was all part of the one incident that he would only be punished once.

 

He did say that if MacDonald had actually stuck the nut in Murray then he would have went also, but because it was just essentially squaring up then it wasn't going to supercede the tackle as both the tackle and the reaction were essentially bookings and not straight reds.

 

That's just his opinion on the events as I described them to him though.