Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 It is always going to be 10 months between tasks when dealing with STs, irrespective of whether the staff are there all the time or not. 1LJ also said that part of the problem was late information regarding the need to allocate seat numbers for every ST. TAG. How do you know how many ? Where is the history of this kind of thing in terms of ratio of uptake to support. If it launches in September, will you pay the 55 ? or just not bother LJ we have always allocated seats for a season ticket, ever since the JHS opened and i bought my 2 year ST to start there has been an allocated seat number, this season has been no different, when I mean 10 months between I mean actually working with Thistles systems etc, not just the ST element, how we store info, send info etc etc, all companies do it different and its the biggest challenge I have when I employ new people or ones that return from maternity leave etc, its not the competance its the systems and familiarizng themselves with it, which is where standard work and mistake proofing etc come into play (But thats a different story) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Norge. if you hadn't already guessed, there was a tad of alcohol involved in that post and I was out of order with the personal stuff. Sorry mate. While I may not agree with the constant moaning and attacks on volunteers and staff who don't wake up every morning wondering how best to bugger things up in the club, you obviously care about the club every bit as much as me and everyone else. Again, apologies for the personal bit. Apology accepted, its constructive critisism, i dont blame the office staff...... its not (and rarely is) the operators fault, its the SPAC, Procedures or work direction (For anyone that investigates quality breaks or incidents), it frustrates the hell out me as this is effectively a big part of my day to day job, identifying breaks and opertunities for improvement within systems and procedures, and the ones we have can be sorted easily (Small outlay for large impact) and they are glaringly obvious at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yes. It isn't, as I've outlined in my previous post. Best thing for you to do is get back on the swally mate - ignorance is bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Centenary Fund and Catering are long term issues, and they are needing urgent attention - that's a given. On some of the other things, I do wonder how much of the issues are supplier issues. When we didn't have a home strip for about 3 months at the beginning of last season (remember that?), it wasn't really the clubs fault and realistically we couldn't really do anything to hurry the supplier along - is it impossible that this was the case with the season tickets/machinery this year? Also the DVD - somebody asked days ago, but do we own copyright to the material or would it have been the SFL? Is it possible that the disbanding of the SFL made this easier/cheaper to produce and be more viable? TAG is delayed, but i'd rather they sorted the season ticket situation first before moving onto that. As far as I know, the only date with regard to the prize draw that was given was that you had to join up by a certain date to be included. People claiming that they have missed the deadline or failed to deliver on this and questioning the legality are jumping the gun a bit I think. Also the new directors being criticized for not putting any cash in - are there actually any shares for them to buy? I don't see too many people going into Dragons Den and saying 'we'll give you 0% of the company for £XXXXXX'. Or do we want 'soft loans' etc. from them, because we've seen how successful that is at other clubs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Centenary Fund and Catering are long term issues, and they are needing urgent attention - that's a given. Totally agree, we are now missing 2 draws On some of the other things, I do wonder how much of the issues are supplier issues. When we didn't have a home strip for about 3 months at the beginning of last season (remember that?), it wasn't really the clubs fault and realistically we couldn't really do anything to hurry the supplier along - is it impossible that this was the case with the season tickets/machinery this year? Communication helps and lessons complaints, but did we order the season ticket/ machinery in time?? But when delivering a product to a customer they don't care about your supplier, they deal with you not the supplier Also the DVD - somebody asked days ago, but do we own copyright to the material or would it have been the SFL? Is it possible that the disbanding of the SFL made this easier/cheaper to produce and be more viable? Allegedly we only looked into this 3 or 4 weeks a go, now we are rushing (I hope) to deliver whilst the momentum and feel good factor is still there TAG is delayed, but i'd rather they sorted the season ticket situation first before moving onto that. As far as I know, the only date with regard to the prize draw that was given was that you had to join up by a certain date to be included. People claiming that they have missed the deadline or failed to deliver on this and questioning the legality are jumping the gun a bit I think. Offering a prize in exchange for your details and failing to carry that out in the time scale promised is illegal, (we got people to give union there details at a non union shop in prestwick mid 90's in exchange for a jumbo TV raffle, we were late and in retribution to the union the company in question sued the union and won) Also the new directors being criticized for not putting any cash in - are there actually any shares for them to buy? I don't see too many people going into Dragons Den and saying 'we'll give you 0% of the company for £XXXXXX'. Or do we want 'soft loans' etc. from them, because we've seen how successful that is at other clubs? Ok well why are these guys on the board unless they are contributing to the club?? Can I or you or both of us get a seat on the board for free, think of the saving for us, free entry home and away, free travel away, free lunch and drinks home and away, wee blazer, tie maybe a full suit. Admission alone that £600 now with lunch and drinks your looking at a hospitality cost weekly so about £4000 (36 games at £100+ a game) plus your suit etc must be close to £5k a year, not to mention possible business contacts ....... I want a slice of that, don't you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Can I or you or both of us get a seat on the board for free, think of the saving for us, free entry home and away, free travel away, free lunch and drinks home and away, wee blazer, tie maybe a full suit. Admission alone that £600 now with lunch and drinks your looking at a hospitality cost weekly so about £4000 (36 games at £100+ a game) plus your suit etc must be close to £5k a year, not to mention possible business contacts ....... I want a slice of that, don't you?? That's exactly it. It looks to me like these guys were brought on to the board for their own benefit, not the club's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 That's exactly it. It looks to me like these guys were brought on to the board for their own benefit, not the club's. Ok well why are these guys on the board unless they are contributing to the club?? Can I or you or both of us get a seat on the board for free, think of the saving for us, free entry home and away, free travel away, free lunch and drinks home and away, wee blazer, tie maybe a full suit. Admission alone that £600 now with lunch and drinks your looking at a hospitality cost weekly so about £4000 (36 games at £100+ a game) plus your suit etc must be close to £5k a year, not to mention possible business contacts ....... I want a slice of that, don't you?? Okay - so is the only possible acceptable contribution that they can make as a board member a financial one? It's this kind of thing i'm not liking about this and a couple of other threads. We all admit there are issues at the club, but it does nobody any favours to sling mud and invent figures suggesting that board members are costing us 5k a year without showing any benefit to the club. Because we don't know about the inner workings of the club and who does what, doesn't give us carte blanche to invent a narrative that suits our own agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Okay - so is the only possible acceptable contribution that they can make as a board member a financial one? It's this kind of thing i'm not liking about this and a couple of other threads. We all admit there are issues at the club, but it does nobody any favours to sling mud and invent figures suggesting that board members are costing us 5k a year without showing any benefit to the club. Because we don't know about the inner workings of the club and who does what, doesn't give us carte blanche to invent a narrative that suits our own agenda. I'm not stating it costs us £5K but for you or me to have the games with hospitality and travel it would cost us that. The first statement i ask is what are they contributing to the club if its not cash?? Knowledge and experience of handling a lottery or prize fund Catering experience for public events Running a communications company Operating a pay per view internet service Please someone justify or explain what value they are bringing to outweigh the 36 match day tickets with lunches and drinks, we'll assume they brought their own suits Edited August 16, 2013 by Norgethistle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Communication helps and lessons complaints, but did we order the season ticket/ machinery in time?? But when delivering a product to a customer they don't care about your supplier, they deal with you not the supplier I agree with this - but it is being suggested it is the clubs fault. I am just providing a balance. You sound from previous posts as if you've got experience in dealing with advising companies on fixing issues, so can I genuinely ask this - is too much communication sometimes bad? I'm thinking that if the club did give us updates every time something changed is that necessarily a good thing? 'Through one of our directors, we've managed to source a new electronic entry system at cut price. this will benefit the club. we've ordered the machines and tickets. They'll be in place for the new season' 'Tickets are delayed, but we are told by our supplier they will be with us next week' 'Tickets are further delayed, but we are told by our supplier they will by x date' 'Tickets have been delayed again. The company installing the machinery at cut price tell us that it'll take 2-3 days to install. As we've no tickets, we've told them to just come when we've a definite deadline.' 'Tickets are here.' Do we need to know everything? The above is all made-up of course (which you will all jump on), but it shows a possible situation that I don't know how the club could have managed differently. Say the company printing the tickets are the same company that print the programmes etc. - is it beneficial to have all this out in the open and ruin a good working relationship? What if they covered the cost of printing and distributing the tickets for Limassol/Dundee Utd and this has cost the club nothing (financially)? Allegedly we only looked into this 3 or 4 weeks a go, now we are rushing (I hope) to deliver whilst the momentum and feel good factor is still there Allegedly? Anyway, could it have been the removal/loss(?) of copyright that made this viable? I'm not asking these things to say you are wrong, i'm just suggesting that none of us know much about the situation and so we are all left to invent one for ourselves. Some of the scenarios are less negative than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 I'm not stating it costs us £5K but for you or me to have the games with hospitality and travel it would cost us that. The first statement i ask is what are they contributing to the club if its not cash?? Knowledge and experience of handling a lottery or prize fund Catering experience for public events Running a communications company Operating a pay per view internet service Please someone justify or explain what value they are bringing to outweigh the 36 match day tickets with lunches and drinks, we'll assume they brought their own suits David Beattie: ? Brian Donald: TAG Ian Dodd: Centenary Fund Ajay Chopra: ? Greig Brown: ? Billy Allan: ? That leaves Catering, Admin(office), Stadium. Finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnyjag Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 C'mon guys what is the problem a minor hiccup occurs re season tickets and the implementation of a new turnstile system and all of a sudden the club is a shambles and people are talking about not renewing season tickets next season. The positivity of what's happening at the club far outweighs any admin issues, which I agree are frustrating, but if things like this make you contemplate whether or not you will renew a season ticket next year, you clearly are not as committed to the club as most of us are. Get a life and support the team 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 C'mon guys what is the problem a minor hiccup occurs re season tickets and the implementation of a new turnstile system and all of a sudden the club is a shambles and people are talking about not renewing season tickets next season. The positivity of what's happening at the club far outweighs any admin issues, which I agree are frustrating, but if things like this make you contemplate whether or not you will renew a season ticket next year, you clearly are not as committed to the club as most of us are. Get a life and support the team i would debate that the positivity outweighs the negatives. who said they're not renewing their season ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 I'm not stating it costs us £5K but for you or me to have the games with hospitality and travel it would cost us that. The first statement i ask is what are they contributing to the club if its not cash?? Knowledge and experience of handling a lottery or prize fund Catering experience for public events Running a communications company Operating a pay per view internet service Please someone justify or explain what value they are bringing to outweigh the 36 match day tickets with lunches and drinks, we'll assume they brought their own suits Okay so you didn't state they were costing us 5k, you said close to 5k. I dont know if they have contributed cash or not - it was just suggested by another poster that they hadn't. Do you know? If not, as I said before, why would we expect them to without shares etc? If they did contribute cash without shares but as some kind of loan, i'd be more worried about that. On what they bring - I don't know and neither do you. The only difference seems to be that I can accept that they must be bringing something, whereas you want to sit and work out how much they are costing the club, with the begrudging acceptance that they might bring their own suit. Listing issues with the club, doesn't mean they don't contribute anything. We don't know who is ultimately responsible for any of the good things that have happened at the club - some of it may well be of their doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Okay so you didn't state they were costing us 5k, you said close to 5k. I dont know if they have contributed cash or not - it was just suggested by another poster that they hadn't. Do you know? If not, as I said before, why would we expect them to without shares etc? If they did contribute cash without shares but as some kind of loan, i'd be more worried about that. On what they bring - I don't know and neither do you. The only difference seems to be that I can accept that they must be bringing something, whereas you want to sit and work out how much they are costing the club, with the begrudging acceptance that they might bring their own suit. Listing issues with the club, doesn't mean they don't contribute anything. We don't know who is ultimately responsible for any of the good things that have happened at the club - some of it may well be of their doing. Nowhere do I state they are costing us £5K or near to £5K i said it would cost you or me close on that figure to attend every home and away game with the hospitality package, effectively what the directors have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why is it relevant what it would cost us for hospitality, travel etc. (I would provide my own suit as well)? I don't know what your point was in working this figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why is it relevant what it would cost us for hospitality, travel etc. (I would provide my own suit as well)? I don't know what your point was in working this figure out. That's the minimum a member of the board gets out of it.......... so what does he put into it to justify that take out?? Following me?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 That's the minimum a member of the board gets out of it.......... so what does he put into it to justify that take out?? Following me?? No. Not following you at all. If that's what you really believe, what are you going to do about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) No. Not following you at all. If that's what you really believe, what are you going to do about it? Almost a threat Milo, bit close to home?? anyway let me explain inputs and output 101 style Fan -input £20 output a seat in the stand to watch the jags Sponsor - Input Sponsor money Output Companys name in programme / trackside Beattie - Input Shares (5% of the club) Output Member of the board, accompanies Thistle to all games, seat in directors box, hospitality etc Other Board member - Input ???? Output Member of the board, accompanies Thistle to all games, seat in directors box, hospitality etc Following yet Anyway as to what I'm going to do about it ...... nothing thats the point, instead of forking out for a ST i never use or a CF that never gets drawn or putting money aside for a TAG PLUS that's never started, I'm going to do nothing, watch the game on the telly for free Edited August 16, 2013 by Norgethistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 That's the minimum a member of the board gets out of it.......... so what does he put into it to justify that take out?? Following me?? Yeah, I think I understand. Just making sure because you've said it doesn't cost the club anything, but now its described as them 'taking out'. So to be a board member, the club should see at least a 5k return from your appointment. Or you can put in 5k. Either of these is acceptable to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Do all Directors not pay a yearly fee to be a director? Sure I read they paid £10k per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Almost a threat Milo, bit close to home?? anyway let me explain inputs and output 101 style Fan -input £20 output a seat in the stand to watch the jags Sponsor - Input Sponsor money Output Companys name in programme / trackside Beattie - Input Shares (5% of the club) Output Member of the board, accompanies Thistle to all games, seat in directors box, hospitality etc Other Board member - Input ???? Output Member of the board, accompanies Thistle to all games, seat in directors box, hospitality etc Following yet Anyway as to what I'm going to do about it ...... nothing thats the point, instead of forking out for a ST i never use or a CF that never gets drawn or putting money aside for a TAG PLUS that's never started, I'm going to do nothing, watch the game on the telly for free I am glad you are coming round to my way of thinking, Norge. There is nothing you can do about it - so what is the point in complaining. It's not going to change anything - unless of course you want us to stop going to the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Do all Directors not pay a yearly fee to be a director? Sure I read they paid £10k per year. I think that's stopped a few years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 I am glad you are coming round to my way of thinking, Norge. There is nothing you can do about it - so what is the point in complaining. It's not going to change anything - unless of course you want us to stop going to the games. The best thing for a Nomad to do is "Nothing" not renew, not sign up, end a subscription. A centenary fund that doesn't get drawn - £240 A season ticket I use once or twice a season - £280 A tag system that never got started - £60 (For TAG plus) As you said there is Nothing I can do so I will do "Nothing" with these items, but by saying nothing and accepting issues we are part of the problem, we want the rest of Scotland to take us serious as a club, as a team, then get rid of the cuddly toy mentality and operate professionally on and off the park 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Do all Directors not pay a yearly fee to be a director? Sure I read they paid £10k per year. It is my understanding that Brian Donald and Ajay Chopra haven't put a penny in to the club. I've stated this many times, they all read the forum so I'm sure that if my information was wrong, I would have been corrected before now. They haven't made any financial contribution whatsoever and from where I'm standing they haven't offered anything instead of that either. I'm talking about skills, industry knowledge etc. These guys haven't been around the club long, they probably don't realise that at Partick Thistle, the good times tend not to last forever. If you neglect your customers during the good times, then they are less likely to stick with you in the bad times. To an extent they are getting away with it just now. The average fan won't care what's going on at boardroom level as long the team are winning. So to everyone that is calling for myself, potty trained and Norgethistle to pipe down and stop moaning, let's see how long your memories are when the good times come to an end. Just because I'm not happy with the way the club is being run as a business doesn't mean I can't appreciate the football on the park. I've stated countless times that this is probably the best jags team I've ever seen. Some of the stuff we played last night was a joy to watch. What I want, is a club off the park that does this team justice. A board and back office team that is capable of helping this team progress EVEN MORE. St. Johnstone had a smaller average gate than us last season and we were a league below them. They were in Europe this year. St. Mirren won a major trophy last season. We are capable of matching the achievements of these teams, if not bettering them. But to do that, we need to have a board of directors that understand the importance of customer service in relation to revenue generation. Treat the customer well and they will spend more money. Give them more opportunities to spend their money on the club (TAG, DVDs) and get the annual revenue streams right (season tickets). My worry is that we get to January, team doing well in mid-table. Archie says to Beattie that we are one good player away from a European spot. There is more chance of that money being available if we have continuous revenue streams such as TAG, hospitality and a DVD selling well. Hypothetical of course, but surely we should not be neglecting potential revenue streams like this no matter where we are in the league or how well the team is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) I am glad you are coming round to my way of thinking, Norge. There is nothing you can do about it - so what is the point in complaining. It's not going to change anything - unless of course you want us to stop going to the games. Thank god everyone didn't take that same opinion during save the jags eh? There is nothing YOU can do about it lenziejag, that's for sure. But those of us who actually want there to be a club for our grand kids to support in 50 years time, we feel we can do something about it. And at the end, if nothing changes, at least we can say we tried and didn't just accept the mediocrity of what we were given. We haven't just simply complained about what's going on. We have offered solutions and alternatives to these problems currently being faced by the club. Edited August 17, 2013 by ian_mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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