Just In (Ptfc - Afc)

[The Cup]

I just watched the highlights there.

Gabriel was at fault for the 1st and 3rd goals and had a hand in the 2nd.

 

A woeful performance.

[Alan Murray]

Archibald has been an outstanding manager for us but he got it badly wrong yesterday. As many have commented on we were outmuscled particularly in the midfield area. The inexperience of playing at this level showed up in this game. Aberdeen tackling was super and we failed to compete. Osbourne must start if fit on this evidence. Both Welsh and Bannigan looked like they have just met, just did not work well together.

 

John Baird's inclusion was also a big mistake, he is low confidence and he is not ideally suited to playing the lone striker role. Doolan is the best option for us. Archie needs to have a word to Baird about stopping playing to moan at the ref, not acceptable.

 

Feel sorry for Gabriel, he was put in a difficult game were most of his team mates were playing poorly. Our back four have built up a good understanding between each other and his inclusion upset this. I thought Archie would bring in a centre back with some experience at the start of this season and expect him to act when the window re-opens in January. Putting Gabriel out on loan would be the best option for me – does not look ready to play at this level. Any long term injury to either Muirhead or Balatoni could be disastrous. An emergency loan for a centre back is something I think Archie may consider.

 

Archie needs to rethink how we play against teams like Motherwell, Aberdeen and the upcoming game against Inverness. Need to be more aggressive and play the game more like a cup tie.

 

O’Donnell, Bannigan, Lawless, and Craigan all had poor games. I thought Forbes again played well when he came on and is pushing hard for a place in the team.

 

I thought Higginbotham was outstanding; he worked very hard in difficult circumstances and was unlucky not to score.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Alan Murray

[Norgethistle]

I just watched the highlights there.

Gabriel was at fault for the 1st and 3rd goals and had a hand in the 2nd.

 

A woeful performance.

 

Banzo should have challenged for the 1st, but was stuck between 2 players, Welsh sold the 2nd and Gabbriel did the right thing in pulling out as he would have been sent off if he'd caught the player, 3rd was a bad pass but he did look off the pace.

 

The whole defence looked suspect with Aberdeen walking through them on the highlights

 

Before we hang Piccolo out to dry its his 1st competitive top flight game, and although he may have been able to stop the 1st or 3rd happening the rest of the team also contributed to it, alot thought Conrad was out his depth a year ago see how time in the team change a player

Edited September 15, 2013 by Norgethistle

[jaggy]

Question, Craig & Dowie have been replaced by Picolo & Baird. Bad decisions by Archie?

[ThickAsThieves]

Question, Craig & Dowie have been replaced by Picolo & Baird. Bad decisions by Archie?

Early days.

 

Don't want to write Mr. Piccolo off but he was bad yesterday. The comparisons to Balatoni aren't too valid either because I've never thought Balatoni looked as bad as Piccolo did yesterday. Baird frustrates me so much, wants to take it to the wing all the time and complains to the ref after hitting the deck time and time again. Think there's a player in there but not as a lone striker. Could maybe do an OK job on the wing, behind a front-man or as part of two up top. Doesn't work as the lone striker though.

[Alan Murray]

Highlights through a proxy.

[read'n'yell]

Question, Craig & Dowie have been replaced by Picolo & Baird. Bad decisions by Archie?

 

No.

 

Bad decision was letting Craig go without the certainty of getting a replacement.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Question, Craig & Dowie have been replaced by Picolo & Baird. Bad decisions by Archie?

 

Bit twisted that question. Craig & Dowie were released. Imo correct decision in both occasions. Gabriel & Baird signings, the jury is just going out on one and far too early to make a decision on the other (citing Balatoni up till mid Oct 12 as an example).

[read'n'yell]

Just watched the highlights and the first and third goals were down to Piccolo - although Sinclair should of cleared the corner and somebody should of closed down (Considine I think) before he knocked it back in or the first goal. Second was a combination of Welsh and Piccolo - Welsh should of cleared or knocked it out, while Piccolo had to make the challenge but backed out. I don't think the highlights really showed how much better Aberdeen were. All goals were 100% avoidable but I have a feeling if Aberdeen didn't get those two early goals then they would of thrown a lot more at us and went on to win anyway.

[jaggy]

 

 

Bit twisted that question. Craig & Dowie were released. Imo correct decision in both occasions. Gabriel & Baird signings, the jury is just going out on one and far too early to make a decision on the other (citing Balatoni up till mid Oct 12 as an example).

I dont think it's twisted. At the time i thought the decision to release them was correct, but assumed that Archie had better replacements lined up. Baird huffs & puffs, but Craig was much better for the system we play. Piccolo may be a decent signing in the long term, but Dowie's experience helped us at the end of last season. An experienced central defender would be useful just now, is Andy Webter still available?

[Norgethistle]

Just watched the highlights and the first and third goals were down to Piccolo - although Sinclair should of cleared the corner and somebody should of closed down (Considine I think) before he knocked it back in or the first goal. Second was a combination of Welsh and Piccolo - Welsh should of cleared or knocked it out, while Piccolo had to make the challenge but backed out. I don't think the highlights really showed how much better Aberdeen were. All goals were 100% avoidable but I have a feeling if Aberdeen didn't get those two early goals then they would of thrown a lot more at us and went on to win anyway.

 

If Piccolo had caught the guy, he would have been off, and we'd have lost a penalty, think thats why he pulled out he knew he wouldnt catch the guy, but Welsh shouldn't have been caught in possession there

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I dont think it's twisted. At the time i thought the decision to release them was correct, but assumed that Archie had better replacements lined up. Baird huffs & puffs, but Craig was much better for the system we play. Piccolo may be a decent signing in the long term, but Dowie's experience helped us at the end of last season. An experienced central defender would be useful just now, is Andy Webter still available?

 

Twisted was probably the wrong word. What I mean is there's two questions not one. Archie could've been right to release Dowie & Craig but also wrong to sign Baird & Gabriel (imo still too early to say). Archie didn't think Dowie at his age could come into the team and do a job without having regular games. Possibly the same with Craig who after all had been released by County. Perhaps if there was a reserve league as opposed to the under 20s Archie may have reconsidered, tho' probably not.

I never thought the signing of Baird was much more than a squad signing and I think he's looked useful enough coming off the bench as has Elliott for that matter. That's another way of saying I don't believe Craig was ever replaced,

[Winter of '63]

Question, Craig & Dowie have been replaced by Picolo & Baird. Bad decisions by Archie?

At the time, I was encouraged that Craig & Dowie were not resigned - they both played their part last season, but Craig was the laziest player I've ever seen at keeping onside and neither of them had made the grade in the top division with their previous clubs. I had assumed that we expected to sign better players - but Baird & Piccolo don't fit the bill. Baird seems to be this year's scapegoat but I think Craig would have been more effective. Having seen the highlights, Piccolo looked even worse than I thought - he reminded me of Jean-Yves Anis' debut as a player who looked hopelessly out of his depth at this level.

[MWM]

Piccolo or Gabriel or whatever was absolutely honking. Even aside from the goals he just lumped the ball away every single time, even when under no pressure at all. Welsh didn't look fit either.

 

 

[kni]

Bit twisted that question. Craig & Dowie were released. Imo correct decision in both occasions. Gabriel & Baird signings, the jury is just going out on one and far too early to make a decision on the other (citing Balatoni up till mid Oct 12 as an example).

 

But Jaggy has every right to ask that question - the same thought occurred to me last night. The comparison with Balatoni is not realistic. Conrad joined us in August 2010 and had played lots of games before October 2012. It's also much easier to blood young players in the second tier.

 

Dowie has Premier League experience and would have been useful back-up this season. There were no defenders on the bench yesterday. If Balatoni and Muirhead are both out, Archie may need to play if McMillan is not fit. Would you risk young Liam Lindsay who is obviously behind Piccolo in the pecking order?

[nas]

will need to check highlights but it was muirhead's man who was left in acres of space to lob the ball back in.

 

as many have said gabby looked out his depth but so did conrad at first and that turned out ok.

 

big concern is up front. we needed to get in a striker who could convert the balls aaron and stephen usually put in. yesterday it wouldn't have matter as stephens crossing was poor and for some reason aaron didn't seem to want to go to the by line. cowdenbeath game was the same. can't believe this is an instruction. overlap with higgy was there so many times yesterday and aaron didn't go. strange especially when the dons player was limping at the end.

 

killie is the type of game we need something from so will disappointing i think we will see more like yesterday against top 6 teams.

[Jordanhill Jag]

In the first Goal he has picked up the Aberdeen Forward - ball is cleared he steps forward ,there are still two defenders standing next to the Aberdeen forward ,ball gets chipped backed in- free header for Aberdeen - yes Piccolo lost his man by stepping forward but there was two defenders standing next to the Aberdeen Centre - no attempt to get to the ball ,so we have three defenders round a player but only one is responsible for losing the goal. Second Goal he goes in hard its a penalty its a lose lose position caused by a mishit from another Thistle Player - Third Goal guy was simply too strong for him not sure how many other players would have withstood the Aberdeen forward. Yes the guy had a nightmare first game against strong opposition where the team played badly ,whilst our regular defenders had couple of Seasons to build up there confidence and understanding - does that make him "honking" - no he has good ball skills ,can pass a ball and needs to learn to do the simple things better - I didn't see him lump it I saw him trying to play diagional passes on numerous occasions - we were poor just about everywhere.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Jordanhill Jag

[lady-isobel-barnett]

But Jaggy has every right to ask that question - the same thought occurred to me last night. The comparison with Balatoni is not realistic. Conrad joined us in August 2010 and had played lots of games before October 2012. It's also much easier to blood young players in the second tier.

 

Dowie has Premier League experience and would have been useful back-up this season. There were no defenders on the bench yesterday. If Balatoni and Muirhead are both out, Archie may need to play if McMillan is not fit. Would you risk young Liam Lindsay who is obviously behind Piccolo in the pecking order?

 

According to Archie Dowie wouldn't have been as he would have to get match time at his age. Choose to ignore that if you wish.

 

Osbourne was on the bench yesterday. That was cover for right back and centrebacks. Bannigan cover for Sinclair and Fraser could've come on if centre mid had to be vacated.

[Armand2]

A dire team performance augmented by very poor individual displays and some clinical finishing from an Aberdeen side who were far better than folk on here are giving them credit for.

 

On a couple of occasions now, Archie has suggested in the media that teams have figured out how to play against us yet he hasn't really did anything to combat this. He talked of the absence of a "plan B" in the post-match reaction which was almost an admission that he didn't have alternative tactics. Granted, given the players' performances yesterday, I'm not entirely sure how effective a change in approach would have been but if we hadn't been so poor collectively, a switch could have made the difference.

 

His continued selection of Baird is quickly wearing thin; he offers absolutely nothing at the moment. I've read some bizarre suggestions that his movement is good - this is complete nonsense on so many levels but even if it were true, it would be nowhere near as good as Doolan's. I've really said all that can be on Baird in previous match threads so there's little point in covering old ground other than to say it was the easiest afternoon that the Aberdeen centre-halves will have all season.

 

Gabriel's selection was unavoidable due to Balatoni's injury and McMillan's continued absence but his performance didn't surprise me in the slightest; I said in another thread that he wasn't ready and he isn't. The manner in which he plays makes it very evident that he's rarely played truly competitive games - lackadaisical, little urgency, very casual on the ball. His communication is non-existant at times and he often fails to move as part of a back-line; his English is apparently very good so it's not a language issue. He was nowhere near Zola on many occasions yesterday. The maximum space that a defender really wants between himself and his man is an arm's length; Gabriel was often two or three yards away. Combined with a less than imposing Muirhead, the pair contrived to let Zola win a great deal of aerial balls unchallenged, allowing him to bring the onrushing Aberdeen midfield into the attack with little protest.

 

Craigen was a passenger throughout his time on the pitch and was outmuscled by the Aberdeen midfield. Lawless too struggled to compete physically and the pockets of space that he usually finds were closed down quickly. I advocated the return of Welsh at the expense of Osbourne but it never worked; he looked tired and bit leggy and didn't offer the drive that he normally provides. Collectively, it resulted in our whole midfield being overrun somewhat especially in the first half and when you add in the defence's inability to deal with Zola, it's easy to see how Aberdeen spent large periods in between the halfway line and our box.

 

To end of a more positive note, Higginbotham put in another good display and was unlucky with a couple of speculative efforts. I think he would play quite well off Doolan which is another reason to add to an already lengthy list supporting his reintroduction. Bannigan was efficient in possession as usual and was really the only one that looked on the same level as Aberdeen's midfielders.

 

Onto Aberdeen, I was quite impressed especially considering they were missing a number of important players. They're effective at what they do and were probably the best team we've played, particularly in the first half - United were a bit slicker but as a team, Aberdeen were better. They've got a dangerous threesome sitting behind Zola in Hayes, Wylde and Pawlett who are all quick and direct. I was particularly impressed with Pawlett; very quick with the ball at his feet, powers past players and finished his goal well. If he can cut out the diving - another blatant one in the first half when O'Donnell caught up with him - then he could turn into a very good player. The boy Smith in midfield was also very good. All that said, we certainly made them look better than they maybe are.

 

On the bright side, other results were quite favourable with St Mirren, Killie, County and Hearts all losing. Big game next week now and it will be interesting to see how the team bounces back because they've never had a cuffing before. Another test for the players and Archie.

[The Cup]

In the first Goal he has picked up the Aberdeen Forward - ball is cleared he steps forward ,there are still two defenders standing next to the Aberdeen forward ,ball gets chipped backed in- free header for Aberdeen - yes Piccolo lost his man by stepping forward but there was two defenders standing next to the Aberdeen Centre - no attempt to get to the ball ,so we have three defenders round a player but only one is responsible for losing the goal. Second Goal he goes in hard its a penalty its a lose lose position caused by a mishit from another Thistle Player - Third Goal guy was simply too strong for him not sure how many other players would have withstood the Aberdeen forward. Yes the guy had a nightmare first game against strong opposition where the team played badly ,whilst our regular defenders had couple of Seasons to build up there confidence and understanding - does that make him "honking" - no he has good ball skills ,can pass a ball and needs to learn to do the simple things better - I didn't see him lump it I saw him trying to play diagional passes on numerous occasions - we were poor just about everywhere.

 

Agreed. He was shit.

[Third Lanark]

will need to check highlights but it was muirhead's man who was left in acres of space to lob the ball back in.

 

as many have said gabby looked out his depth but so did conrad at first and that turned out ok.

 

big concern is up front. we needed to get in a striker who could convert the balls aaron and stephen usually put in. yesterday it wouldn't have matter as stephens crossing was poor and for some reason aaron didn't seem to want to go to the by line. cowdenbeath game was the same. can't believe this is an instruction. overlap with higgy was there so many times yesterday and aaron didn't go. strange especially when the dons player was limping at the end.

 

killie is the type of game we need something from so will disappointing i think we will see more like yesterday against top 6 teams.

Are you planning on going to the Killie game kni? Just out of curiousity how many games have you been too this season?

[allyo]

While I agree with much of what has been said, I.e.yesterday was obviously very disappointing, I think there should be an acceptance that it was inevitable that we'd struggle in some games this season. Six games in and four of them have been positive in terms of both performance and, generally, result.

Regarding the criticism of Gabriel, this squad has been built on a willingness to give young players a chance. That was a young guy playing his first game at this level, against a strong (huge) team, in a game where the whole team struggled. Seems a bit harsh to single him out. Time for a bit of patience and realism. We're doing well so far.

Edited September 15, 2013 by allyo

[The Cup]

Good to see Archie spotted the problems in the rancid defending (from Gabby) and Welsh not being fit.

If we can put yesterday behind us and bring a good performance to the Killie game we can win it.

 

If we can keep getting an average of 1.3 points per game we will be well safe and possibly top 6 come the end of the season.

[The Cup]

While I agree with much of what has been said, I.e.yesterday was obviously very disappointing, I think there should be an acceptance that it was inevitable that we'd struggle in some games this season. Six games in and four of them have been positive in terms of both performance and, generally, result.

Regarding the criticism of Gabriel, this squad has been built on a willingness to give young players a chance. That was a young guy playing his first game at this level, against a strong (huge) team, in a game where the whole team struggled. Seems a bit harsh to single him out. Time for a bit of patience and realism. We're doing we'll so far.

 

This.

 

When McMillan comes back then Gabriel should maybe get put out on loan. The U20 reserve games mean nothing. He needs to be involved in real games to get sharp.

We'd have Osboune and McMillan as cover in defence.

[uberteeb]

Surprised to see Jimmy C get singled out by some people, he was decent in the first half and was actually involved in the game unlike every other midfielder bar Higginbotham and Osbourne when he came on.

 

McInnes got his tactics spot on and coupled with their strength we looked toothless and lost.