Blackpool Jags Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Firstly, I've got to admit that corporate finance isn't my strong suit. But, I'm of the impression that things are about as good now as they've been for probably decades. The crippling bank debt that's been such a millstone round our necks for so long has been slashed and, if I understood comments from a few months ago correctly, might even have been fully cleared if it wasn't for the punitive charges that come from early repayment. We survived the past two years or so due to the new board regime's tough fiscal policy on income over expenditure, in addition to relatively small scale but prudent investment in the football side of things. Then things started to turn round considerably on the park: we started to win regularly whilst playing attractive stuff, something we could only have dreamt of during the long, grinding lean years. We win the Division One title, return to the big league and now any home gate of less than 5,000 is seen as a relative disappointment. We start the campaign quite impressively without abandoning the free-flowing style of football that has endeared us to many beyond our own ranks. Now we're on live TV for the next month or so with the welcome revenue that necessarily flows from that, and the end of season dividend that comes from being up there with the big boys is real money compared to what we became used to getting. Merchandise revenue (I assume) is on the increase and, provided we survive this season, will continue to provide a very welcome income stream as will increased ST sales next time round for the same reason. Admittedly, the cost of retaining our better players and that of attracting new additions necessary to sustain momentum will be a marked increase in the debit column. However, and this is my question, are we not now at the point where we can reasonably state that we are a financially thriving outfit who has just about everything under control, and are a model of fiscal sustainability? Modern football can be a highly capricious business, and I'm sure we're all only too well aware - if only from past bitter experience - how quickly all that can change. But from where I'm sitting, it seems that PTFC is presently in a very healthy position, financially speaking, and that we have much to look forward to for once as a set of long standing, weary but eternally optimistic fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Was looking to see if I could see the last set of accounts somewhere and noticed that Maxi was appointed to the board at the start of Sept. By the way does anybody have the accounts that they can share ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 We will be in a good position if we stay up but will only stay in a good position if the broad continues to be careful over expenditure - though this should still allow us a bit more spending money for players. The other thing we need is to sell a player or two for a decent amount of money - sure we want to keep players but we know we're going to lose some. If we can become a club that can produce both players to become part of the team (thus saving on buying new players) and sell the odd one at a good price then we can move on to the next level and become financially more secure. Also when we do sell players, knowing you can't be sure when that really sellable player will come along, with anyone who goes for a really high fee part of that money should be put aside for 'rainy day' situations. Just a few thoughts, feel free to shoot down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Does all the extra money from bigger gates and TV not just get swallowed up by better wages for the players, hotels on the Friday for far away games and better malt in the boardroom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) Does all the extra money from bigger gates and TV not just get swallowed up by better wages for the players, hotels on the Friday for far away games and better malt in the boardroom? Well that depends on the board doesn't it? We've seen in the past a board seem to sort things out financially and then - really pleased and full of themselves for doing so - proceed to get us into another financial mess. I'd hope the current board, while allowing us to spend a bit more (we've doubled our wage bill IIRC) still are keeping things tight, at least for the division we're in. Edited September 24, 2013 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Since we came back into the 1st Div I don't believe we've ever tried in any way to buy the league. Just as well as clubs like Dundee and Dunfermline would simply have spent more to counter any team strengthening we applied. Easy for them as they end up paying out a few pence for every pound they were supposed to. I don't for one minute think that luck had a huge part to play in turning around our financial situation and I'm not really one for ifs and buts. However I think we should be grateful that we had two players on our books........ Firstly Mark Roberts. We were extremely lucky to get out that 2nd Division first time of asking (so maybe I should also include Billy Gibson). The fact is without Mark we'd never have got anywhere near the play offs. It's anyone's guess what would've happened to us if we hadn't got promoted but I'd have feared the worse. Secondly Harkins. Whatever he did over yon summer of '08 turned out to be another lifesaver for us. He came back lean and fit, had a great season for us and more importantly the cash from his transfer I'm led to believe kept the Revenue boys from turning nasty. While it would be wrong not to credit Beattie, Allan & Co for turning round our finances and keeping all spending in check, it's got to be said that while they've been watching the big picture there's a fair amount of money making cameos they've missed out on. Still it's grand to be back in the top division punching against our weight and competing with some clubs that haven't exactly been run within their means. Just when praising our current stewards of our club don't forget about Roberts & Harkins. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 You can add John Lambie to the top of that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted September 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) Totally agree with l-i-b's emphasis on the importance of Mark Roberts and Harkins, in particular the contribution of Marko to our survival. His goals and performances are arguably the main reason we still have a Thistle to support. Harkins' and, to a lesser extent Twaddle's fortuitous transfer fees, allowed McCall to just about keep us in the game. These days, it's like those dark days occurred decades ago rather than in the last 6-8 years. Success allegedly breeds success, and if we're being as well run as seems to be the case, then aren't we likely to be able to compete at the top level - in whatever form that turns out to be - for a very long time? All things being relative, we certainly appear in rude financial health, and with the recent phenomenon of 'bigger' clubs either going to the wall or avoiding that by the thickness of a fag paper doesn't that, either directly or indirectly, strengthen our position within the existing confederation of Scottish clubs? Given that the next sevco, Dundee, Dunfermline or Hearts to jaywalk over the cliff's edge is deeply unlikely to be us - at the present time anyway - just how strongly can we capitalise on our current stability? Is it possible, or even likely, that we could become a fairly big player in the Scottish set-up within 4-5 years, or is their some natural order or force that dictates we're always going to be makeweights? Edited September 24, 2013 by Blackpool Jags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 I have wondered this myself. We're not a smaller club than Killie, St Mirren or St Johnstone, who are all pretty established. If our financial position is as good or better then there's no reason why we can't establish ourselves. Getting through the first season is going to be important, but I think we have a team that can do that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThickAsThieves Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 I've no real idea about the finances of the club, I just know we've been making good progress over the last few seasons. Just how good that progress is, I'm not sure. I'm really on this topic to say: Mark Roberts absolutely loves Thistle. Spoke to him on a night out a few months back, and even when he didn't know I was a Jags man, he was raving about us - saying we were the best fans he's ever played for. Lovely. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted September 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 I've no real idea about the finances of the club, I just know we've been making good progress over the last few seasons. Just how good that progress is, I'm not sure. I'm really on this topic to say: Mark Roberts absolutely loves Thistle. Spoke to him on a night out a few months back, and even when he didn't know I was a Jags man, he was raving about us - saying we were the best fans he's ever played for. Lovely. Great to hear that about one of my all time Thistle heroes, TAT. Marko Roberts: Thistle legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 The Hoor is also one of my all-time favourite Jags players. For a club like ours to finish 4th in the Second Division and need a play-off to get promoted is pretty embarrassing. Marko saved us from certain demise. Also the stewardship of Harkins and in particular Rowson, got us through those first few years back in the First Division. It would appear we are in a far better financial shape than we have been in a very long time. Those amazing attendances at the end of last season would have gone a long way to boost our finances, and I only hope we can continue to do it this season. I’m far more optimistic about our future now, and if we can consolidate this season, I can see us going the same way as ICT and St.Johnstone…established SPL teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 I’m far more optimistic about our future now, and if we can consolidate this season, I can see us going the same way as ICT and St.Johnstone…established SPL teams. ...and, unfortunately, part and parcel of the drudgery that is the top league in Scotland. Could we change things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAISLEY-JAG Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 Is there any real way to find out the actual figures? Will the end of the financial year bring a broke down report detailing thistles finances or is this wishfull thinking and all gets kept hush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 Would our finances not be better if we had more advertising at Firhill? There's hunners of unfilled space, St Mirren was crammed with the stuff, double rows round the pitch and huge signs in the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 26, 2013 Report Share Posted September 26, 2013 Would our finances not be better if we had more advertising at Firhill? There's hunners of unfilled space, St Mirren was crammed with the stuff, double rows round the pitch and huge signs in the stands. Definitely and bringing money in from the likes of TAG and the DVD would also boost the coffers, we appear to be on a better financial footing than we have been in years but we keep missing opportunities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAISLEY-JAG Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 The reason for all the empty space is probably the price increase from last season being about 100%! Just crazy to ask companies to renew at that price with no reduced rate for previously holding the same patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 The reason for all the empty space is probably the price increase from last season being about 100%! Just crazy to ask companies to renew at that price with no reduced rate for previously holding the same patch. So are we charging more than St Mirren? or just not as agressive as St Mirren when it goes to chasing sponsorship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 So are we charging more than St Mirren? or just not as agressive as St Mirren when it goes to chasing sponsorship I wouldn't know the answer to that but the number of advertising hoardings, even the size of a hoarding, is not necessarily indicative of the revenue raised. In a previous life I used to buy advertising space and was willing to pay a good deal more if my product wasn't crowded out. I suspect St Mirren can make more out of advertising than we can as we're the new kids on the block but that's different from saying that we've in any way maximised our advertising potential. It's just far from being an exact science and would be difficult to criticise the Club without knowing individual advertising agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAISLEY-JAG Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 So are we charging more than St Mirren? or just not as agressive as St Mirren when it goes to chasing sponsorship I really couldnt say. I am only talking about prices at firhill compared to last season, would be interesting to know what st mirren charge though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mull Jag Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 So are we charging more than St Mirren? or just not as agressive as St Mirren when it goes to chasing sponsorship according to the St Mirren wesite anything from £750pa to £2500 pa depending on location, thistle have a number to call! With regard to accounts , the most recent ones are available at companies house if anyone can be bothered paying the fee to get them ( £3 i think?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 according to the St Mirren wesite anything from £750pa to £2500 pa depending on location, thistle have a number to call! With regard to accounts , the most recent ones are available at companies house if anyone can be bothered paying the fee to get them ( £3 i think?) Thistle have the prices on the website, you don't need to call for them. Advertising board prices are dependent on location JHS - £1250 per season Main stand - £2000 per season Goal lines - £2500 per season All in here http://ptfc.co.uk/do...e_2013-2014.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 In recent years the accounts have been available from mid Oct so hopefully the ones for year ended 31/05/13 will be out soon. I would expect them to be good given the crowds we had last season along with the Ramsden's Cup run and the TV games we were involved in. The most important thing, for me anyway, is to see how what the debt level is as the sooner we can eliminate that the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Regarding comparisons with St Mirren, I think we may be at a disadvantage in that Paisley businesses will support the local team through sponsorship ( even where business owners do not support the club). Similar will happen with Kilmarnock, St Johnstone etc. I'm not sure but I think we may miss out in not being a town team, therefore having a less obvious catchment for sponsorship. Just a theory, it may be rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAISLEY-JAG Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Regarding comparisons with St Mirren, I think we may be at a disadvantage in that Paisley businesses will support the local team through sponsorship ( even where business owners do not support the club). Similar will happen with Kilmarnock, St Johnstone etc. I'm not sure but I think we may miss out in not being a town team, therefore having a less obvious catchment for sponsorship. Just a theory, it may be rubbish. Good point I would agree with you on that and knowing people that have board there for that very reason its a good look for your place if you support the local team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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