Just In -- Relegation Material

[mhs]

The opening game of the season is always going to see a big bounce but you would think our home gates would have stablised after that. They are pretty much getting worse every week.

 

Last I heard, we only had 1500 season ticket holders. I hope that is paying season ticket holders and doesn't include freebie U-16s - not sure.

 

If this figure is accurate then I am not surprised crowds are still dwindling, at least 2000 paying/non-season ticket home fans turning up (some season ticket holders don't attend every game) on Saturday was not too bad considering recent results. We were sitting fourth in the league at one point, that helps bring out the fans who don't/struggle to go regularly for whatever reason.

 

Still disappointing though, would be nice to keep above the 5000 mark, especially when there was a reasonable away support.

Edited November 12, 2013 by mhs

[potty trained]

Are they? The start of the St Mirren game I thought we were playing pretty well and made some decent chances - not stonewall chances but decent ones. Then we gave an unnecessary goal away. That's what's really killing us at home. The 0-3 against St Mirren was really a 0-1 exaggerated by O'Donnell's sending off which they took advantage of. If we'd not given a goal away with poor defending we'd have got at least a draw. We might even have got a draw if we'd stayed with 11 men - or the ref gave the penalty he should have.

 

That's not to say there isn't a problem. Just that it isn't the huge problem some folk seem to think. I think we need to concentrate on stopping giving goals away too easily and the goals up front will come. Players score when they are relaxed - when they're worried about a bad run of games (at home in our case) or about something like giving goals away at the back then they get nervous and it affects the forward play.

 

I would be far more worried if the team was playing poor football and never creating chances. We are still playing good football and although we maybe don't create as many dead cert chances as we should we still create enough half decent chances that we should score more often than we do. It's a matter of finding the right balance of getting the defending to be sharper while maintaining the same attacking verve we've shown so far.

 

I think we had 17 shots on saturday, 4 on target. i won't moan about only 4 being on target.

 

i remember games under DC or Mccall where we didn't have a single shot on target.

[Paulo]

Anyone fancy trying out 3 centre backs? Little more cover in the middle, gives the full backs a chance to move up a bit.

 

How about playing Higgy in the centre? Would he just be crowded out in the current style of play there?

 

Bannigan at LB, McMillan at RB, and play SOD and ATS as wingers?

 

I reckon these boys are learning a hard lesson over the last couple of weeks. But, they are learning.

[Jaggernaut]

Anyone fancy trying out 3 centre backs? Little more cover in the middle, gives the full backs a chance to move up a bit.

 

-- Why not? We do quite often get caught out by long balls through the middle.

 

How about playing Higgy in the centre? Would he just be crowded out in the current style of play there?

 

--I think he'd get crowded out. He's better getting the ball on the wing then moving in.

 

Bannigan at LB, McMillan at RB, and play SOD and ATS as wingers?

 

--Original! Hell, why not!

 

I reckon these boys are learning a hard lesson over the last couple of weeks. But, they are learning.

[ian_mac]

Anyone fancy trying out 3 centre backs? Little more cover in the middle, gives the full backs a chance to move up a bit. How about playing Higgy in the centre? Would he just be crowded out in the current style of play there? Bannigan at LB, McMillan at RB, and play SOD and ATS as wingers? I reckon these boys are learning a hard lesson over the last couple of weeks. But, they are learning.

I'd like to see us try McMillan in a sweeper role behind the 2 CBs.

 

Would mean that the full backs could push on and not have to worry so much about being caught out defensively.

 

With the make up of the midfield it would probably mean playing a 5-2-2-1 formation.

[uberteeb]

Are they? The start of the St Mirren game I thought we were playing pretty well and made some decent chances - not stonewall chances but decent ones. Then we gave an unnecessary goal away. That's what's really killing us at home. The 0-3 against St Mirren was really a 0-1 exaggerated by O'Donnell's sending off which they took advantage of. If we'd not given a goal away with poor defending we'd have got at least a draw. We might even have got a draw if we'd stayed with 11 men - or the ref gave the penalty he should have.

 

That's not to say there isn't a problem. Just that it isn't the huge problem some folk seem to think. I think we need to concentrate on stopping giving goals away too easily and the goals up front will come. Players score when they are relaxed - when they're worried about a bad run of games (at home in our case) or about something like giving goals away at the back then they get nervous and it affects the forward play.

 

I would be far more worried if the team was playing poor football and never creating chances. We are still playing good football and although we maybe don't create as many dead cert chances as we should we still create enough half decent chances that we should score more often than we do. It's a matter of finding the right balance of getting the defending to be sharper while maintaining the same attacking verve we've shown so far.

 

My post was about our home crowds not our home performances.

 

Last I heard, we only had 1500 season ticket holders. I hope that is paying season ticket holders and doesn't include freebie U-16s - not sure.

 

If this figure is accurate then I am not surprised crowds are still dwindling, at least 2000 paying/non-season ticket home fans turning up (some season ticket holders don't attend every game) on Saturday was not too bad considering recent results. We were sitting fourth in the league at one point, that helps bring out the fans who don't/struggle to go regularly for whatever reason.

 

Still disappointing though, would be nice to keep above the 5000 mark, especially when there was a reasonable away support.

 

1,500 season tickets sounds worryingly low, it it includes the free kids ones then it is woeful. How many did we have last season?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I'd like to see us try McMillan in a sweeper role behind the 2 CBs.

 

Would mean that the full backs could push on and not have to worry so much about being caught out defensively.

 

With the make up of the midfield it would probably mean playing a 5-2-2-1 formation.

 

I think that plays a little too negative. It would certainly require at least one centreback willing to break forward in open play. Otherwise we'd be going back to McCall times when we had three centrebacks (from Archie, Robertson, Storey & Maxwell) none of whom crossed the half way line.

It would also mean I think the two central midfielders having to play a bit wider quite a bit of the time. That wouldn't worry Bannigan but it wouldn't suit Osbourne and probably not Welsh either.

I realise our present set up is fairly attack minded but I feel the energy within the side compensates. I actually thought we might have started the season playing three at the back but we're kinda well off for holding midfielders, which imo makes that not the best option.

[Lenziejag]

The opening game of the season is always going to see a big bounce but you would think our home gates would have stablised after that. They are pretty much getting worse every week.

 

It was the same last season and that was going 6? wins on the trot

[Lenziejag]

 

 

1542 st mirren fans.

 

Which means 3400 jags fans for a home "derby".

 

Better away turnout than I thought. The Thistle support was about average,then. It's not really a traditional derby, but I would have hoped for a bigger crowd given that it was between teams close to each other in the league

[The Earl of Hathaway]

From personal experience I think quite a few of the recent new supporters we picked up on the way up Division 1 have fallen by the wayside. One of the reasons is that, much like me, they liked the idea of football as a centrepiece to their Saturday because it fitted in with their schedule. That has disappeared with the TV games and since they weren't diehard Thistle fans to start off they don't want to rearrange their lives to fit the games in. They may reappear with the increased number of Saturday games over the next couple of months, but once you fall out the habit....

[David Stevenson]

1,500 season tickets sounds worryingly low, it it includes the free kids ones then it is woeful. How many did we have last season?

Don't know about last season, but I am sure I read that we have 1500 ST plus 700 kids ST this season. STs are not good value, especially when dates and times get messed about to satisfy broadcasters.

[The Legend Blows]

Right lets cut to the chase. 2 leg playoff final should be week beginning 19th May. What's yir thoughts? Personally I quite fancy The Canaries, maybe Lanzarote. Need to be a day time flight mind.

[Charlie Endell]

 

Don't know about last season, but I am sure I read that we have 1500 ST plus 700 kids ST this season. STs are not good value, especially when dates and times get messed about to satisfy broadcasters.

I can't remember season tickets ever bring "value" - I buy one to support the club*, not to save a couple of quid. It also saves the pantomime of queuing twice to enter the ground.

 

* and I'm certainly no über fan.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Charlie Endell

[Vinnyjag]

 

 

Totally agree stewarty,hoofing it would be useless. I believe attack would be the best form of defence,so what I would do and I'm no self professed tactical mastermind is revert to a more traditional 4-4-2 which would offer more in the final third and help break up stuffy teams who are now content to let us pass the ball to death in the middle third. Ditching the wing backs and having a solid back four whose jobs are to only to defend would also help. My team would look a bit like this(fitness permitting obviously).....

 

Fox

McMillan. Balatoni. Muirhead. Bannigan

 

Osborne. Welsh.

Odonnel. Taylor-Sinclair

 

Dools. Higginbotham.

[Vinnyjag]

I think much of what has been said so far is fairly accurate. I think though that a huge problem for us is our lack of strength all over the park.

 

Worried about GMS potentially up against a non match fit McMillan. As a one-off to try to combat him is Elliott worth a shot at right back? He is quick, strong and robust in the tackling. I know it may seem quite bizarre but I think it's a better option than shipping Muirhead to RB and putting Picolo in with Conrad.

 

[mhs]

I think much of what has been said so far is fairly accurate. I think though that a huge problem for us is our lack of strength all over the park.

 

Worried about GMS potentially up against a non match fit McMillan. As a one-off to try to combat him is Elliott worth a shot at right back? He is quick, strong and robust in the tackling. I know it may seem quite bizarre but I think it's a better option than shipping Muirhead to RB and putting Picolo in with Conrad.

 

I understand your thinking but Elliot is a bit of a headless chicken at times and isn't the best at reading a game. He is fast and strong but defence isn't one of his best roles. McMillan has more experience in that role and is better in the tackle but can also push forward. He has had a fair bit of U-20 games which, by all accounts, are played at a fast pace with a mix of youth and experience. Go with McMillan, in my opinion.

[Mr Bunny]

I understand your thinking but Elliot is a bit of a headless chicken at times and isn't the best at reading a game. He is fast and strong but defence isn't one of his best roles. McMillan has more experience in that role and is better in the tackle but can also push forward. He has had a fair bit of U-20 games which, by all accounts, are played at a fast pace with a mix of youth and experience. Go with McMillan, in my opinion.

 

I agree. Also if we think GMS is going to be a bit of a problem, McMillan can stay back a bit and not commit too much forward. We could make up for this maybe by having whoever plays beside Osbourne push forward more when we attack.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I agree. Also if we think GMS is going to be a bit of a problem, McMillan can stay back a bit and not commit too much forward. We could make up for this maybe by having whoever plays beside Osbourne push forward more when we attack.

 

Archie gave a lot of respect to Ciftci at Tannadice in the league cup match. He had SOD and Elliott double up on him as often as possible. I don't know if Ciftci will be missing or not as there's still yon hearing for throttling the linesman to be heard. Whatever United do present problems down the wing but McMillan should be the equal to SOD in defending at least There could be good cause to play Christie as he's probably the most effective forward when it comes to tracking back.

[Mr Bunny]

Assuming we'll play Fox and our most reliable available defence of

 

McMillan, Muirhead, Balatoni and ATS

 

then Osbourne will play in front of this with probably Bannigan as he's the man in possession of that place. Doolan and Higginbotham are shoe-ins so that only leaves 2 positions to consider. Play Lawless again or bring in Elliot for more muscle? Craigen seems worth his place and I don't think we want ot risk starting Kerr or Forbes in an away game against a strong side like United.

 

So it almost appears like the only real decision is whether Lawless's with his last decent performance deserves another start or whether we opt for extra strength and pace with Elliot. Unless Welsh is looking particularly good in training which we can't know and even then would Bannigan get dropped?

[Jaggernaut]

Assuming we'll play Fox and our most reliable available defence of

 

McMillan, Muirhead, Balatoni and ATS

 

then Osbourne will play in front of this with probably Bannigan as he's the man in possession of that place. Doolan and Higginbotham are shoe-ins so that only leaves 2 positions to consider. Play Lawless again or bring in Elliot for more muscle? Craigen seems worth his place and I don't think we want ot risk starting Kerr or Forbes in an away game against a strong side like United.

 

So it almost appears like the only real decision is whether Lawless's with his last decent performance deserves another start or whether we opt for extra strength and pace with Elliot. Unless Welsh is looking particularly good in training which we can't know and even then would Bannigan get dropped?

 

Elliott and Craigen. Let Christie barge in and through them to soften them up, then consider bringing in Lawless to finish them off. Neither Forbes nor Kerr has done anything of late to suggest that they deserve a starting place ahead of those who are already there. And Bannigan ahead of Welsh, every time, even when Bannigan isn't at his best. God, this game seems like it's taking an eternity to arrive.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Jaggernaut

[brick_top]

Personally, I think we're built for a 4-2-3-1

 

Fox

 

McMillan, Muirhead, Balatoni, ATS

 

Osbourne, Bannigan

 

Craigen, Lawless, Higgy

 

Doolan

 

Gives us the protection of 2 DMs if the full backs bomb on, and gives Doolan the support of 3 potential AMs to help him out and not leave him so isolated.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Personally, I think we're built for a 4-2-3-1

 

Fox

 

McMillan, Muirhead, Balatoni, ATS

 

Osbourne, Bannigan

 

Craigen, Lawless, Higgy

 

Doolan

 

Gives us the protection of 2 DMs if the full backs bomb on, and gives Doolan the support of 3 potential AMs to help him out and not leave him so isolated.

 

Is that not the system we already play?

[brick_top]

In that case then the two holders don't hold enough, and play more like CMs. Also, Doolan gets nowhere near enough support from our 3 apparent "AMs".

Edited November 15, 2013 by brick_top

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Doolan gets nowhere near enough support from our 3 apparent "AMs".

 

You won't get many disagreeing with that.

[read'n'yell]

In the past few games, Welsh has had an inbetween role. Neither an advanced mid or holding mid. It's made the system out of shape and out of balance. If we revert to the simpler two holding mids, it will work much more effectively and give cover on both sides of the pitch.