Tag

[Trotter]

Will those handing out the abuse, innuendos and gross criticism to unpaid volunteers be anywhere to be seen if/when a Supporters Association is established?

 

Unpaid volunteers yet some are shareholders which is more than can be said for certain individuals charged with running the club...

 

So, about fan representation on the BoD...

 

 

[The Mighty Quinn]

Davy Mains, Board representative for the Jags Trust, has asked me to start a thread posing this question:

 

If the TAG scheme was relaunched next month, what would your reaction be?

what is the tag scheme? not got a clue

[Jordanhill Jag]

As the club's Marketing Director, fan and revenue growth should be your personal responsibility, i.e. fan growth generates drives the number of season tickets that are sold and increases the number of paying customers at the gate.

 

TAG membership should have been a key driver of fan growth and ticket sales. Free membership was advertised as a key benefit for those who purchased a season ticket. The TAG page on the club site sets out the benefits that season ticket holders have missed out on. Will season ticket ticket holders be entitled to a compensation, refund or voucher?

 

 

Please tell us what have you done to promote fan growth, i.e. attendances, this season. Please explain why has the club decided that it does not need the TAG income this season? The club website states that your "role covers all aspects of fan communications". What have you done to update fans on TAG this season? There have been no statements on the club website.

 

You, as Marketing Director, must provide explanations for the failure to deliver TAG or to communicate to fans the reasons for its cancellation or delay.

The Club has not decided it does not need TAG otherwise we would not be discussing updates and how we drive it forward - Yes my role covers Fan Communications but as TAG implementation has been delayed there wasn't a lot I can communicate or Market - as for Fan Growth TAG plays a key role in this - I can only update when there is something substantive to Communicate. My job to date on TAG has been to pull together a package that we believed would deliver multi benefits to our Fans ,assist Growth and assist Communications and input from the Fans - that was done - I working with onethistle Volunteers were responsible for the launch Campaign - that was done .The Club will provide explanations as to the delay - I in turn communicate them - there is a limit to the amount of things Im responsible for. All Ive asked is that Fans wait for more substantive information and then make there minds up

[Trotter]

The Club will provide explanations as to the delay

 

& when will this be done?

 

It's 10 months since the initial launch & despite repeated queries on this forum not a peep from the club as to why the delay.

 

Even a DVD of last season's goals/ league wins wasn't forthcoming.

 

Not saying any of this down to yourself but the message being sent out is the club don't need the money. (Which we know isn't true).

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

& when will this be done?

 

It's 10 months since the initial launch & despite repeated queries on this forum not a peep from the club as to why the delay.

 

Even a DVD of last season's goals/ league wins wasn't forthcoming.

 

Not saying any of this down to yourself but the message being sent out is the club don't need the money. (Which we know isn't true).

There will be updates and ongoing discussions over the next couple of weeks - after that I will try and answer as many questions ( put in a reasonable format ) as I can.

[Norgethistle]

& when will this be done?

 

 

Invites were issued today for the first meeting of the Supporters Federation

 

At the top of the Agenda is an update and explanation of where we are with TAG - also on the Agenda are our plans to develop the Supporters Federation ,Fan Engagement and Plans for Fan Growth.

 

The Forum is about debate however over the next week we should have more substantive information to discuss as the Club starts laying out its plans and providing further information - I have already volunteered to answer as many questions as I can on the Forum concerning all of the above after the presentation and further correspondence on TAG over the next few days.

 

All I would ask is that rather than judge on no information let us get the info out to the Fans directly and via as many Supporters Groups as possible - ask questions based on the information then decide.

 

Going forward we are looking for as many views and as wide an input as possible.

 

Its your Club you decide but please decide on as much info before you as possible

 

FOREVER AND EVER

 

Jim Alexander aka Jordanhill Jag

 

Trotter think Jim answered in his 1st post as to the basic timescale of events going forward, lets see what is stated on Saturday then lets make judgments after based on the content of the meeting with the supporters associations

[kni]

The Club has not decided it does not need TAG otherwise we would not be discussing updates and how we drive it forward - Yes my role covers Fan Communications but as TAG implementation has been delayed there wasn't a lot I can communicate or Market - as for Fan Growth TAG plays a key role in this - I can only update when there is something substantive to Communicate. My job to date on TAG has been to pull together a package that we believed would deliver multi benefits to our Fans ,assist Growth and assist Communications and input from the Fans - that was done - I working with onethistle Volunteers were responsible for the launch Campaign - that was done .The Club will provide explanations as to the delay - I in turn communicate them - there is a limit to the amount of things Im responsible for. All Ive asked is that Fans wait for more substantive information and then make there minds up

 

Why should we wait for substantive information on a scheme that should have started in August?

Why can't you, as club Marketing Director, tell us why the TAG has been delayed?

Can you even tell us why the club has not made any official statements on TAG's so called "delay"?

Will the season ticket holders be compensated for the lack of TAG benefits that they bought as part of their package?

Why can't the club be honest, or even communicate effectively, with the fans?

 

Only when those questions are answered fully can we think about trusting the club to deliver TAG and the Supporters Federation.

[ian_mac]

Why should we wait for substantive information on a scheme that should have started in August?

Why can't you, as club Marketing Director, tell us why the TAG has been delayed?

Can you even tell us why the club has not made any official statements on TAG's so called "delay"?

Will the season ticket holders be compensated for the lack of TAG benefits that they bought as part of their package?

Why can't the club be honest, or even communicate effectively, with the fans?

 

Only when those questions are answered fully can we think about trusting the club to deliver TAG and the Supporters Federation.

 

I think Jim is trying to be as diplomatic as he can here.

 

Kni, he's already stated that there will be answers to these questions next week. If you really are that concerned about all this then you should get yourself involved in the new supporters federation. Why don't you think about what area or age group you could represent and get yourself along to the meeting next week?

 

I know that Jim and onethistle put a hell of a lot of work in to the launch last year. The agreement was that after the launch it would be handed over to the club to run. Brian Donald was the board member who was supposed to head up TAG - he was the self-appointed master of ceremonies at the end of last season.

 

Now to be fair to Jim, he's come back in and tried to rescue TAG. You could ask why he didn't do this sooner but the message from the club has always been "we're working on it". This was always the response anyone received who enquired via email. Had the club asked for help with this sooner we might not be in the position we are now.

 

It should also be remembered that Jim isn't an employee, he earns nothing from the club. There are people on salaries at the club who could have been working on this but for whatever reason they've chosen not to. It's now been left to a volunteer to try and rescue the whole thing.

 

Meanwhile Brian Donald and the rest of the board are probably still blissfully unaware that anything is wrong. But hey, as long as they have their blazers and tartan rugs in the directors box I suppose that's all that matters.

[Trotter]

 

 

 

Trotter think Jim answered in his 1st post as to the basic timescale of events going forward, lets see what is stated on Saturday then lets make judgments after based on the content of the meeting with the supporters associations

 

Fair enough.

 

I just think it's the latest in a long line of PR/ communication disasters from the club.

 

& credit to Jim Alexander (& others) for taking it on but as been said previously, should be other board members fronting up to do the explaining.

[kni]

I think Jim is trying to be as diplomatic as he can here.

 

Kni, he's already stated that there will be answers to these questions next week. If you really are that concerned about all this then you should get yourself involved in the new supporters federation. Why don't you think about what area or age group you could represent and get yourself along to the meeting next week?

 

I know that Jim and onethistle put a hell of a lot of work in to the launch last year. The agreement was that after the launch it would be handed over to the club to run. Brian Donald was the board member who was supposed to head up TAG - he was the self-appointed master of ceremonies at the end of last season.

 

Now to be fair to Jim, he's come back in and tried to rescue TAG. You could ask why he didn't do this sooner but the message from the club has always been "we're working on it". This was always the response anyone received who enquired via email. Had the club asked for help with this sooner we might not be in the position we are now.

 

It should also be remembered that Jim isn't an employee, he earns nothing from the club. There are people on salaries at the club who could have been working on this but for whatever reason they've chosen not to. It's now been left to a volunteer to try and rescue the whole thing.

 

Meanwhile Brian Donald and the rest of the board are probably still blissfully unaware that anything is wrong. But hey, as long as they have their blazers and tartan rugs in the directors box I suppose that's all that matters.

 

Ian, you make very fair points that are very helpful. I was not aware that, even after promotion, Jim receives no payment fr omthe club. I had assumed wrongly (but reasonably IMHO) that the "Marketing Director" of a Premier League club would be paid a competitive salary. If he is trying to rescue TAG, he will have my full and unqualified support for the reasons that I will explain below.

 

I had hoped that the formation of a Supporters Federation would lead to the club becoming a mutual, i.e. owned by its season ticket holders and supporters. The Jags Trust would have been the ideal organisation through which fans could own shares and exercise collective influence. On previous threads, I have committed to invest substantially (well into five figures) if those who received cheap/free shares in the club sold them for no personal profit - i.e. the sale proceeds/profits went entirely to the club, ideally to buy out Propco.

 

For me, TAG was the catalyst to realising that vision. Sadly, a fantastic opportunity for fan involvement (and future ownership) appeared to have been squandered, possibly deliberately. The lack of communication on TAG has therefore been very depressing. The fans are entitled to ask tough questions and expect full and honest answers. Hopefully, we/they will get them next week or in the near future. You can be sure that, as a fan for over 40 years, I will support the Supporters Federation in every way possible.

 

ETA - no reply to this post has been received in the last five hours.

Edited February 17, 2014 by kni

[davemains]

guys - look. It was an honest question, asked in conjunction with other social media outlets, to ask what you guys thought. There's no agenda here, no politics and nothing hidden - and whether you believe that or not, I'm really starting not to care.

 

I've spent the weekend pretty pissed off (Motherwell result didn't help!) and really questioned myself as to why I'm doing anything at all to try and help my club and its fans, if all I'm getting back in return for my time and effort is abuse.

 

Personally speaking, if TAG is the right answer to fan representation (or at least AN answer) then bring it on. I've spoken to Jim (Jordanhill Jag) and he knows my opinion; I, for one, am looking forward to a constructive chat on Saturday to see what the proposals are.

 

Meantime, I won't be back on the forum - feel free to slag me off, I won't see it.

[potty trained]

guys - look. It was an honest question, asked in conjunction with other social media outlets, to ask what you guys thought. There's no agenda here, no politics and nothing hidden - and whether you believe that or not, I'm really starting not to care.

 

I've spent the weekend pretty pissed off (Motherwell result didn't help!) and really questioned myself as to why I'm doing anything at all to try and help my club and its fans, if all I'm getting back in return for my time and effort is abuse.

 

Personally speaking, if TAG is the right answer to fan representation (or at least AN answer) then bring it on. I've spoken to Jim (Jordanhill Jag) and he knows my opinion; I, for one, am looking forward to a constructive chat on Saturday to see what the proposals are.

 

Meantime, I won't be back on the forum - feel free to slag me off, I won't see it.

 

It's a pity you want to go down that route Davy, as can be seen from this thread, I think only one person posted abuse, and they apologised for it.

 

So I think it's unfair to say... I've spent the weekend pretty pissed off and really questioned myself as to why I'm doing anything at all to try and help my club and its fans, if all I'm getting back in return for my time and effort is abuse.

Edited February 17, 2014 by potty trained

[Willjag]

It's the Partick Thistle way PT. Many people have put themselves out there to help the Club and the fans and been abused for it. You've had your own personal experience of it. You've either got to grow a very thick skin or just chuck it.

[Fearchar]

It's a pity you want to go down that route Davy, as can be seen from this thread, I think only one person posted abuse, and they apologised for it.

 

So I think it's unfair to say... I've spent the weekend pretty pissed off and really questioned myself as to why I'm doing anything at all to try and help my club and its fans, if all I'm getting back in return for my time and effort is abuse.

 

Post 10, 15, 18 and 23 all look at best snide and at worst outright abusive to me. What is bizarre is that the victim seems to have been scapegoated for the club's failings.

[potty trained]

Post 10, 15, 18 and 23 all look at best snide and at worst outright abusive to me. What is bizarre is that the victim seems to have been scapegoated for the club's failings.

 

Post 10 and 23? Incidentally, post 18 is clearly directed at the Club.

 

 

The problem is, this thread was started quite clearly in relation to Davy's position as Trust Board Rep, and not just as some guy looking to start a chat about TAG.

 

The fact Davy actually says that he (and the trust) can't formulate an opinion for themselves, without first knowing everyone elses opinion, just backs up that this thread was a market research thread for the trust.

 

i requeasted that the trust through davy be open and honest with non members, the way they want us to be with them, on this issue... instead of affording us that honesty, he has resigned from the forum, it would seem!

 

I've been good enough as others have, to give davy and the trust my opinion, and i'm not a member, but they can't return the courtesy of using this forum to be open with us.

 

As i said... you put forward your manifesto for election, you are either successful or not. if you are successfully elected, then the members expect you and your board to act and steer the trust, as per your manifesto. they don't expect to have to give you their thoughts every time you need to make a decision.

 

As per the constituition they operate under, there should have been 4 meetings over the last 12 months. minuted meetings... But they are not available to view on the trusts website. any supporters federation or TAG discussion should be minuted from those meetings... How did the davy and the trust form an opinion previously, without doing market research?

[1971]

Post 10 and 23? Incidentally, post 18 is clearly directed at the Club.

 

 

The problem is, this thread was started quite clearly in relation to Davy's position as Trust Board Rep, and not just as some guy looking to start a chat about TAG.

 

The fact Davy actually says that he (and the trust) can't formulate an opinion for themselves, without first knowing everyone elses opinion, just backs up that this thread was a market research thread for the trust.

 

i requeasted that the trust through davy be open and honest with non members, the way they want us to be with them, on this issue... instead of affording us that honesty, he has resigned from the forum, it would seem!

 

I've been good enough as others have, to give davy and the trust my opinion, and i'm not a member, but they can't return the courtesy of using this forum to be open with us.

 

As i said... you put forward your manifesto for election, you are either successful or not. if you are successfully elected, then the members expect you and your board to act and steer the trust, as per your manifesto. they don't expect to have to give you their thoughts every time you need to make a decision.

 

As per the constituition they operate under, there should have been 4 meetings over the last 12 months. minuted meetings... But they are not available to view on the trusts website. any supporters federation or TAG discussion should be minuted from those meetings... How did the davy and the trust form an opinion previously, without doing market research?

 

So you're basically having a go at the guy for conducting too much consultation with fans? Right...

[potty trained]

So you're basically having a go at the guy for conducting too much consultation with fans? Right...

 

hey buddy, i've missed you, you've not quoted me for a while, where have you been?

 

it's strange that you would read my post and think that, but maybe you misunderstand fan consultation!

 

if you read my posts again you'll see that it's probably the opposite, as i have said i am unhappy that davy (the trust) are not willing to share their opinion i.e. are not willing to consult.

 

For reference... party A asking party B their opinion is not consultation in any manner of means!

[Norgethistle]

I really think we should go for this, both TAG and supporters federation, if they work they will be groundbreaking bring us coser to the club and hopefully with more input to the running of the club via the federations and more output from the club in the TAG package, if the club doesn't follow through we know how much they welcome the fans engagement (and our cash).

 

What do we as fans have to lose out of pushing this through and signing up and getting involved?

[Shuggie]

Hi everyone,

 

Buried in this thread are points that look to be ones worth raising on Saturday.

 

I think we are far from a comprehensive list though (and folk will remember how I just love lists). So thinking caps on.

 

Those invited to this meeting are asked "if you would like any particular issues included in the Q&A section please submit them to the club ([email protected]) in advance for inclusion on the day."

 

So please feel free to add your question here for the benefit of whose --who may see them --and then try to best represent Thistle fans on Saturday,

 

Now I have read this thread I'm off to write a Nomad Newsletter to "consult with my camel herders :-) )

Edited February 17, 2014 by Shuggie

[jags365]

Post 10 and 23? Incidentally, post 18 is clearly directed at the Club.

 

 

The problem is, this thread was started quite clearly in relation to Davy's position as Trust Board Rep, and not just as some guy looking to start a chat about TAG.

 

The fact Davy actually says that he (and the trust) can't formulate an opinion for themselves, without first knowing everyone elses opinion, just backs up that this thread was a market research thread for the trust.

 

i requeasted that the trust through davy be open and honest with non members, the way they want us to be with them, on this issue... instead of affording us that honesty, he has resigned from the forum, it would seem!

 

I've been good enough as others have, to give davy and the trust my opinion, and i'm not a member, but they can't return the courtesy of using this forum to be open with us.

 

As i said... you put forward your manifesto for election, you are either successful or not. if you are successfully elected, then the members expect you and your board to act and steer the trust, as per your manifesto. they don't expect to have to give you their thoughts every time you need to make a decision.

 

As per the constituition they operate under, there should have been 4 meetings over the last 12 months. minuted meetings... But they are not available to view on the trusts website. any supporters federation or TAG discussion should be minuted from those meetings... How did the davy and the trust form an opinion previously, without doing market research?

The general view of the JTB (from when TAG was first announced - as nothing has changed since then, other than it failing to materlise for whatever reason) was that in principal it is a good idea and should be supported, and we were/still are happy to support it.

However, from the information given out at the time it appeared that the 'Supporters Federation' would not be of elected members and would not be a viable route to fan ownership or even a place on the PTFC LTD Board. So from that point of view we fell that the Trust is still the best way of achieving that.

 

With everything else relating more directly to footballing matters (highlights, prizes etc) there was nothing in there that the Trust has any issues with.

 

As mentioned, we were basically trying to gauge people's views on what would happen if TAG were to relaunch and try to advise the club (along with the other delegates) as clearly there wouldn't be much point in doing it if no-one would sign up!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The general view of the JTB (from when TAG was first announced - as nothing has changed since then, other than it failing to materlise for whatever reason) was that in principal it is a good idea and should be supported, and we were/still are happy to support it.

However, from the information given out at the time it appeared that the 'Supporters Federation' would not be of elected members and would not be a viable route to fan ownership or even a place on the PTFC LTD Board. So from that point of view we fell that the Trust is still the best way of achieving that.

 

With everything else relating more directly to footballing matters (highlights, prizes etc) there was nothing in there that the Trust has any issues with.

 

As mentioned, we were basically trying to gauge people's views on what would happen if TAG were to relaunch and try to advise the club (along with the other delegates) as clearly there wouldn't be much point in doing it if no-one would sign up!

 

I see where you're coming from but can foresee a kind of impasse. Just as TAG has been discredited by non communication I believe it's fair to say that the Trust can hardly be described as communicative with the fanbase as an entirety. I don't mean to dig up old dirt as it would neither be helpful nor fair on above poster or the likes of Davy Mains.

 

What could be helpful would be know whether the Trust would be co-operative with and/or supportive of an ad hoc Supporters Association regardless of any perceived lack of democratic constitution that fans group may have. My own view is that we're so lacking fans representation that I'd welcome anything that could claim to represent a sizable percentage of our grass roots support. Once it's in place then folk should start to worry about constitutions, voting, manifestos etc etc. Not exactly an idealistic approach but imo more practical.

[mrD]

Is the Thistle Community Initiative, a joint venture with the trust, still active? Keiron Dempsey, Community Director, is described as the "fans representative". Can you update us on his activities or tell us who has taken on his role?

 

Finally, Can you tell us why communication between the club, the Trust, the Community Initiative and the fans is so poor? I would describe it as almost non existent.

 

Keiron Dempsey is no longer involved with the trust or the club in any capacity - and hasn't been so for a couple of years..

 

That link is an old link to the community work done between the trust, the club, and partners that has been supersceded by the link on the club site which is

 

http://community.ptfc.co.uk/

 

As i understand it, the community work, prior to the setting up of the contemporary chartitable trust, was pretty much done on an ad-hoc basis, whilst a specific constituted group that was better fitted for those kinda activities (id guess in terms of funding/policies and procedures etc) was set up. The result is what stands before you in the above link... As i understand it, it is now kinda quasi-arms length independant charitable organisation that has representatives of ptfc, and the trust, and other partners (and i think a councillor) on the board. i think there is some info on that site itself. what this means, in terms of actual inputs from the trust i don't know or if the trust does 'work in the community' outside of that setup...

Edited February 17, 2014 by mrD

[kni]

Keiron Dempsey is no longer involved with the trust or the club in any capacity - and hasn't been so for a couple of years..

 

That link is an old link to the community work done between the trust, the club, and partners that has been supersceded by the link on the club site which is

 

http://community.ptfc.co.uk/

 

As i understand it, the community work, prior to the setting up of the contemporary chartitable trust, was pretty much done on an ad-hoc basis, whilst a specific constituted group that was better fitted for those kinda activities (id guess in terms of funding/policies and procedures etc) was set up. The result is what stands before you in the above link... As i understand it, it is now kinda quasi-arms length independant charitable organisation that has representatives of ptfc, and the trust, and other partners (and i think a councillor) on the board. i think there is some info on that site itself. what this means, in terms of actual inputs from the trust i don't know or if the trust does 'work in the community' outside of that setup...

 

Thanks for that update. I had missed the link at the bottom of the website's home page. It's clear that the Community Trust is a very good set-up with a wide range of activities and its website is well designed too.

[Norgethistle]

Keiron Dempsey is no longer involved with the trust or the club in any capacity - and hasn't been so for a couple of years..

 

That link is an old link to the community work done between the trust, the club, and partners that has been supersceded by the link on the club site which is

 

http://community.ptfc.co.uk/

 

As i understand it, the community work, prior to the setting up of the contemporary chartitable trust, was pretty much done on an ad-hoc basis, whilst a specific constituted group that was better fitted for those kinda activities (id guess in terms of funding/policies and procedures etc) was set up. The result is what stands before you in the above link... As i understand it, it is now kinda quasi-arms length independant charitable organisation that has representatives of ptfc, and the trust, and other partners (and i think a councillor) on the board. i think there is some info on that site itself. what this means, in terms of actual inputs from the trust i don't know or if the trust does 'work in the community' outside of that setup...

 

The community initiative is still the link on the trusts site, I actually thought the JT and the club were doing 2 different initiatives, is the JT also involved with the Partick Thistle Charity Trust or is it just a club involvement

[mrD]

Hmm i could be totally wrong about this! that was my understanding - as i think i remember someone from the trust on another thread saying they were involved with the new body.

 

heres the list of the board of the new body, i dunno if any of those names are on the JTB?

 

http://community.ptfc.co.uk/about_us

 

what i can be sure about though is Keiron Dempsey not being involved in anything to do with the club or trust as i is a family member of his!!

 

shit apologies to anyone for making this less clear with my above post!!!