OorWull Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Tell you what. From some of the posts on here it would seem like jlsarmy and chewingum... could offer an awful lot to the club. They are certainly quick enough to point out what they think is wrong so I can only assume they are happy to get involved? Why would they want to get involved? It seems like the stock answer which eventually gets put forward to any questions asked about Tag, the old "can you do any better"? Is Tag not a serious business run by Partick Thistle FC, which should be open to the same close scrutiny as any other business? The questions asked have been well thought out and presented and certainly should be answered by Tag, if they want to be treated as a genuine money making business arm of Partick Thistle Football Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Only slight difference is the NHS aren't trying to charge us £60.00 for using it,not a great comparison I think the NHS costs each of us a lot more than £60 - its not "free" we pay for it via our NI contribution - the point being made is that its not uncommon for IT systems to be more complex than you first thought when attempting something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Why would they want to get involved? It seems like the stock answer which eventually gets put forward to any questions asked about Tag, the old "can you do any better"? Is Tag not a serious business run by Partick Thistle FC, which should be open to the same close scrutiny as any other business? The questions asked have been well thought out and presented and certainly should be answered by Tag, if they want to be treated as a genuine money making business arm of Partick Thistle Football Club. Difference is that Partick Thistle is a football club with "supporters", not a normal business with "clients". Fair question to ask whether people with good ideas should like to get more involved, this kind of engagement I assume is what it's all about. Doesn't mean there's any obligation, or that simply posing questions on a forum isn't a valid way to engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OorWull Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm sorry, but I do not buy this argument at all, if the Club want to be taken seriously and move forward with Tag and some time in the future be turning over £300,000 P.A., then we need to stop this "we're not a normal business, we're a football club with supporters not clients" stuff. It is exactly this type of thinking which has allowed Tag to be a year behind already. The sooner we all realise that a supporter is a client the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 If I was a client I'd have packed it in years ago. So would most football fans. Not that it should be used as an excuse for poor standards, but I think the whole concept of TAG probably calls for degree of goodwill and loyalty that would not be typical of an ordinary business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Oor wull, did you manage to see the reply I gave to you regarding some concerns you raised previously. Sorry if you replied and I missed it. It's a pity you don't feel represented, Wull, there's not really much detail in your post, so I'd ask: You say once again, when have you previously not felt represented? What demographic are you? Who do you buy the other season tickets for? Are you a member of the trust? Do you socialise in a pub pre match? Where do you live? Why would you, your family and your friends opt out of something that is free? I'm not sure what other things have left you and others like you, feeling disenfranchised? It's sad that you feel this bad about something that has left you feeling so isolated. But bear in mind that you will have representation if you and others in your living area choose to accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry, but I do not buy this argument at all, if the Club want to be taken seriously and move forward with Tag and some time in the future be turning over £300,000 P.A., then we need to stop this "we're not a normal business, we're a football club with supporters not clients" stuff. It is exactly this type of thinking which has allowed Tag to be a year behind already. The sooner we all realise that a supporter is a client the better. Wull whilst we should be run as near as possible on a professional business footing and treat our Customers /Fans to as high a standard as possible it has to be recognised that we are not in essence a Business that maximises profit nor are we a Charity more like a hybrid of the two e.g. Kids Go Free - no business would do this - but we recognise its key to create fans in the long term - the flip side is that this and many other price reductions have to be paid for - add in putting as much money as possible into the Football side and you have a model that means you run with as few paid staff as possible and get Volunteers to fill the gaps - if you hit problems like TAG IT then it takes time to fix them. The alternative is to recruit lots of staff and make cuts on things like Kids Go Free or Football side - its always a balancing act. Our fans in return show loyalty way beyond any client HOWEVER and its crucial - taking them for granted as many Football Clubs do as a recipe for disaster Edited March 3, 2014 by Jordanhill Jag 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Wull whilst we should be run as near as possible on a professional business footing and treat our Customers /Fans to as high a standard as possible it has to be recognised that we are not in essence a Business that maximises profit nor are we a Charity more like a hybrid of the two e.g. Kids Go Free - no business would do this - but we recognise its key to create fans in the long term - the flip side is that this and many other price reductions have to be paid for - add in putting as much money as possible into the Football side and you have a model that means you run with as few paid staff as possible and get Volunteers to fill the gaps - if you hit problems like TAG IT then it takes time to fix them. The alternative is to recruit lots of staff and make cuts on things like Kids Go Free or Football side - its always a balancing act. Our fans in return show loyalty way beyond any client HOWEVER and its crucial - taking them for granted as many Football Clubs do as a recipe for disaster Feel like we're trying to score points against each other but I don't really want to come across that way, 100% we should maximise profit , be that the lottery fund , hospitality , unreleased DVD from last year etc etc, if all these things were maxed to their full potential I would have thought some money would have filtered down to the team. There is also lots of business's that do lots of promotional activity to create client bases from restaurants ( 2 for 1 deals,kids eat free etc) to hotels 3 nights for the price of 2 etc etc . There is nothing wrong with that and we should be commended for our thinking but to say we have some sort of exclusivity with that is false. The clubs fans are extremely loyal but the Club did take us for granted re the TAG fiasco ( think it issued an apology nearly a year down the line) same idea with the Lottery fund , we went 2 months without the draw taking place and lost membership because of this, can't remember any apology or statement regarding this either. The club should be run professionally from start to finish, not a hybrid of a charity and a business, if we are serious about the TAG concept then there should be investment to do it properly, we could ring fence £50k from the Celtic supporters when they come to Firhill in 3 weeks !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Feel like we're trying to score points against each other but I don't really want to come across that way, 100% we should maximise profit , be that the lottery fund , hospitality , unreleased DVD from last year etc etc, if all these things were maxed to their full potential I would have thought some money would have filtered down to the team. There is also lots of business's that do lots of promotional activity to create client bases from restaurants ( 2 for 1 deals,kids eat free etc) to hotels 3 nights for the price of 2 etc etc . There is nothing wrong with that and we should be commended for our thinking but to say we have some sort of exclusivity with that is false. The clubs fans are extremely loyal but the Club did take us for granted re the TAG fiasco ( think it issued an apology nearly a year down the line) same idea with the Lottery fund , we went 2 months without the draw taking place and lost membership because of this, can't remember any apology or statement regarding this either. The club should be run professionally from start to finish, not a hybrid of a charity and a business, if we are serious about the TAG concept then there should be investment to do it properly, we could ring fence £50k from the Celtic supporters when they come to Firhill in 3 weeks !! If we were run along an exclusive business model as suggested we would simply focus on the part of our fan base we think we can get the best return from - Businesses who support us would squeeze us for as much as they can in any deal none of this happens - I agree the Club has to be run professionally however what we are trying to achieve as an end product in fan experience on and off he park doesn't fit into a normal business model - no business I know has a long term commitment to letting Kids experience there product for 5 years despite the product cost increasing - ultimately we will have to agree to disagree - however at no point do we ever take fans for granted - failure to deliver isn't one in the same as complacency - sometimes things simply don't go as planned. Coca Cola the most marketed Company in the World launched its "new coke " millions spent on research ,marketing ,branding ,development - what happened - they had to go back to the original formula - new things always have issues it doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying to make change just because you got it wrong - the man who never made a mistake never made anything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sorry to butt in here but while it has been brought up a couple of times did the club say anything at the meeting if they were going to bring out a dvd of last year or this season for that matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sorry to butt in here but while it has been brought up a couple of times did the club say anything at the meeting if they were going to bring out a dvd of last year or this season for that matter? The DVD was mentioned and I'm pretty sure I remember someone saying it was "nearly there". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Emphasising the point that everyone has the potential to make mistakes by citing the monumental disasters of New Coke or the NHS I.T. project does not help. I'm sure there were sufficient people within both organisations who thought these projects were very good ideas before they commited any of the resources available to them to push them through. Yet both were ultimately costly failures, financially and in terms of public relations. A good idea is not enough. We have experience of this with the the trust. A good idea, which although it can be argued has done alot of good, has not perhaps been as successful as many hoped or envisiged. I've already stated that to my mind the reason given for delay being promotion and the unforseen workload that has delivered is ridiculous and indefensible even if forgiveable. My justification for that is based on the revelation that the software was not in place, the I.T. expertise not saught and dedicated staff to run the scheme were not employed or commited on a voluntary basis, prior to launching and selling the scheme as part of this year's season ticket package. What was launched and sold was a not a product but a concept sold as a product. It is fortunate that as a football club with very loyal customers, understanding of the club's predicament, there have been no requests for compensation. I beleive and trust that of the reported 400(?) who applied for tag membership alone no payment was taken. Forgive me if I am mistaken but the only benefit of Tag membership this season will be entry into the Barcelona draw. Let me try, once again, to be quite clear, as a fan of nearly 30years attendance, former ballboy, programme seller and hospitality staff and former season ticket holder who now due to a variable income form work which takes me randomly nationwide but who attends when i'm able and can justify the cost, the concept of a contributory membership scheme is very attractive to me. This would be made more appealing if I really did feel I had some say in how my contribution was spent or used. There are ways to donate to the club already. I thought, or at least hoped this was different in that it would deliver true fan power. To me that does not equate to "access to a director" or fan rep to the club. However, and I doubt that I alone in this view, I am reluctant to contribute without some certain assurance that, whatever the final Tag scheme delivers, it will be given a reasonable and considered chance of success from the start. We are not Dundee Utd. They are without doubt still benefiting from their success in the 80s. Something sadly we did not enjoy. I don't now many spaniards, but of the ones i do know, I don't think i could charge any of them to have their say even if i gave them a raffle ticket into the bargain. Perhaps this unfortunate delay in Tag could be turned into a positive with a little further thought, analysis and refinement. Edited March 5, 2014 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Emphasising the point that everyone has the potential to make mistakes by citing the monumental disasters of New Coke or the NHS I.T. project does not help. I'm sure there were sufficient people within both organisations who thought these projects were very good ideas before they commited any of the resources available to them to push them through. Yet both were ultimately costly failures, financially and in terms of public relations. A good idea is not enough. We have experience of this with the the trust. A good idea, which although it can be argued has done alot of good, has not perhaps been as successful as many hoped or envisiged. I've already stated that to my mind the reason given for delay being promotion and the unforseen workload that has delivered is ridiculous and indefensible even if forgiveable. My justification for that is based on the revelation that the software was not in place, the I.T. expertise not saught and dedicated staff to run the scheme were not employed or commited on a voluntary basis, prior to launching and selling the scheme as part of this year's season ticket package. What was launched and sold was a not a product but a concept sold as a product. It is fortunate that as a football club with very loyal customers, understanding of the club's predicament, there have been no requests for compensation. I beleive and trust that of the reported 400(?) who applied for tag membership alone no payment was taken. Forgive me if I am mistaken but the only benefit of Tag membership this season will be entry into the Barcelona draw. Let me try, once again, to be quite clear, as a fan of nearly 30years attendance, former ballboy, programme seller and hospitality staff and former season ticket holder who now due to a variable income form work which takes me randomly nationwide but who attends when i'm able and can justify the cost, the concept of a contributory membership scheme is very attractive to me. This would be made more appealing if I really did feel I had some say in how my contribution was spent or used. There are ways to donate to the club already. I thought, or at least hoped this was different in that it would deliver true fan power. To me that does not equate to "access to a director" or fan rep to the club. However, and I doubt that I alone in this view, I am reluctant to contribute without some certain assurance that, whatever the final Tag scheme delivers, it will be given a reasonable and considered chance of success from the start. We are not Dundee Utd. They are without doubt still benefiting from their success in the 80s. Something sadly we did not enjoy. I don't now many spaniards, but of the ones i do know, I don't think i could charge any of them to have their say even if i gave them a raffle ticket into the bargain. Perhaps this unfortunate delay in Tag could be turned into a positive with a little further thought, analysis and refinement. You state the reasons given are ridiculous and indefensible - the economic facts are that we run the Club on a shoestring - the majority of the cash we bring in goes to the Manager - this in turn means we try and get by on non Footballing resources with minimal staff - I would hazard a guess that its the lowest number of Non Football Staff in the SPL - this in turn means that if we are suddenly hit with a large project - eg promotion our ability to deal with problems on other projects eg TAG are limited due to resource. Thats it nothing more nothing less everyone will have views on wither this is the correct approach or not. As for TAG its already been stated we are working towards a definitive implementation date based on a detailed project plan - as for assurances - the product and benefits will be available once it goes live. We have already stated the Barcelona Draw will be made over the next couple of months - no money was taken from any fan The comparision with larger organisations is to demonstrate that even organisations with massive resource do not always get it right when bringing something new on board - the delay in TAG getting up to speed is disappointing - the Club have apologised for this - two things I disagree with - one the key is the idea - yes it has to be delivered BUT without it there isn't anything - I know lots of Spaniards all Football Fans they pay the same money for there Socio scheme with no where near the benefits of TAG - as for Fan Power - the Federation has had its first meeting - it will grow - it will give a broad spectrum of views and provide input as to how we shape the Club - Fan Power has already started. As for Dundee Utd we have a potential market five times the size of Dundee why should we not be there size - I doubt many Fans under the age of 30 support them based on past glory. Edited March 5, 2014 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) What is ridiculous and indefensible is not that the club are running on a shoestring with limited staff. That is not in doubt and an admirable quality. But rather that the club chose to launch and sell a new product with that evident problematic issue, without the basics in place (I.T. infrastructure or expert advise sought) and the added issue of a very probable promotion on the horizon was dangerously naive. The answer that the level of work promotion brought was unforseeable or even underestimated is forgiveable, but i would say, only by a very sympathetic market. People bought season tickets this year, expecting delivery of all Tag benefits not just the Barcelona draw. Tag "went live" from a customers prospective when sold as part of the season ticket package. You cannot argue that Tag adds value to the season ticket package, publicise it as an incentive to buy, then rule out the possibilty that people bought season tickets this year on what was advertised or that no money was taken for Tag. This issue should be particularly important when trying to attract new customers with the scheme. The big organisations did not fail because of lack of money. A commitment to an apparently good idea caused great expense and use of resources that ultimately ended in disaster. The first market research for new coke was predominantly positive. Tag was launched prematurely and not thought through. It appears the same idea is being pushed through now, on the back of a premature launch that could have been helped by the promotion feel good factor. People have great ideas but eagreness to implement them before they are properly considered and refined tend to fail. Maybe this delay for tag should be used as much to refine the idea as consider it's implementation. One refinement should maybe be, if the spaniards pay the same, why do we feel the need to give more? Why do they do that? And can we improve on accomodating that impulse or reasoning? I wasn't born in '71. But it's still one of the things that makes me feel proud of being a Jag. Edited March 5, 2014 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I wasn't born in '71. But it's still one of the things that makes me feel proud of being a Jag. I was. Literally. But two months too late. My mum should have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Draw has been made http://ptfc.co.uk/news/2013-2014/march_2014/and_the_winner_is?utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=ptfc&utm_source=twitterfeed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Congratulations to him... Now for the away game team bus draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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