Tag

[kni]

I apologise my intemperate post last night after a very difficult journey home in atrocious weather.

 

Stuart Ayton's "opinion" above is spot on but I do not agree that we now have progress. There has no been official statement from the club. Firstly, we had another vague promise on here from a Davy Mains via a third party. Note that Davy Mains is not listed as a board director on the club website.

 

Jim Alexander aka Jordanhill Jag, the club's Marketing Director, has posted an update this morning. The club website says that he is responsible for "fan communications" - "working closely with the onethistle marketing team, the aim is to deliver professional and effective marketing campaigns that have measurable results." There have been no measurable results in relation to the Supporters Federation or TAG and the the lack of communication with fans has been appalling.

 

Even on this thread, there has no explanation from Jim for the failure to deliver the Supporters Federation or TAG this year. He did not even tell us who is responsible or implementing the supposed relaunch. Yet we are supposed believe that the Barcelona draw, due in May, will still take place.He asks us to listen to the (his?) plans and then judge. However, I am judging on the events of the last year and the verdict is total and utter abject failure.

 

Full answers to Potty Trained's excellent list of questions are required before we can begin to take this proposed relaunch seriously. After the failures of the last year, the first step is for those at the club who are responsible for the Supporters Federation/TAG to resign their positions immediately. If they will not resign voluntarily, David Beattie should dismiss and replace them with those who have a proven track record of delivery of "measurable results". Only then can we even think of taking any relaunch or future scheme seriously.

Edited February 15, 2014 by kni

[ClydebankJag]

People talk about TAG as if it has revolutionary content but other than a few prize draws it has little real substance apart from match highlights and text commentary. While I can see the benefits of this for nomads those of us in the UK can get this from the BBC. So as long as we are in the SPFL why would people in the UK pay £60 for TAG?

[ian_mac]

Got an invite to the meeting and planning to attend to represent the north stand for this meeting only. Need to point out that I am in favour of each representative being elected to the federation rather than chosen, and that's what hopefully will happen after this initial meeting.

 

I think it's admirable that Jim and Grieg Brown are attending this meeting, but I feel they must be warned that it could be a tough afternoon for them.

 

The sad thing is that Jim isn't responsible for the failure of TAG or any of the other shambles that have went on since the end of last season. Grieg, as a full board member is, I suppose, guilty by association.

 

But the people who should be sitting in front of the fans issuing explanations and apologies are not Jim or even Grieg. We all know who they are:

 

Ian Maxwell, Brian Donald, David Beattie.

 

The fact that none of them are scheduled to attend signals to me that they don't really take any of the problems seriously and don't feel that the fans deserve an explanation as to what has been going on at the club behind the scenes.

[davemains]

Davy Mains, if he can't be bothered to comment or post here, he can GTF. Is he Juan Kerr or just a w***ker?

 

Kni - I couldn't get logged on last night - wasn't that I couldn't be bothered to comment or post, I couldn't. I'm gonna take strong exception to that comment and I'm not exactly thrilled to be described by you as a "w***ker" - care to justify either comment?

[davemains]

I apologise my intemperate post last night after a very difficult journey home in atrocious weather.

 

Stuart Ayton's "opinion" above is spot on but I do not agree that we now have progress. There has no been official statement from the club. Firstly, we had another vague promise on here from a Davy Mains via a third party. Note that Davy Mains is not listed as a board director on the club website.

 

 

Kni - I've never at any point, claimed to be club director, nor have I made any "vague promise" - what planet are you on?

[davemains]

Sorry, Davy Mains who posts on here, has asked you to start a thread for him?

 

Why can't Davie start the thread?

 

Why is he being vague in the reason behind the thread? As the reason now explained by JJ.

 

Why do the Jags Trust have a board representative who doesn't sit on the board representing the trust?

 

What is the trusts reaction and opinion?

 

Why is he being so stand offish, yet so specific saying next month?

 

If relaunched, will the trust sign up to be a member of the federation?

 

Does the trust think their 200 odd members have more right to representation and communication with the board than the ordinary non trust fan? If so, what representation do our other major shareholders have?

 

Do the trust agree that a federation that has the ability to bring every fan from every walk of life together under one banner, is the way forward, and has more potential for success as their model has failed?

 

 

My point being, rather than asking the general populous of a football forum... Shouldn't he be reaching out first and foremost to the members he strives to represent.

 

 

Regards the OP...

 

If the club hold up their hands, admit accountability for its failure to date, and don't excuse it because it's been really busy in the office and actually admit fault, then I think there is a possibility of rescuing the situation.

 

David - you are reading too much into it. I only saw the invitation late last night - I'm interested as to what fans - members of the Trust and non-members thought. I couldn't get logged in on the forum but a similar question was posted on twitter and facebook - and a good range of opinions were expressed. In terms of "reaching out" that's exactly what I did/ am doing - but I'm not excluding anyone.

 

The meeting next Saturday has invited 2 reps from each of the various supporters groups to hear the proposals - and I'm very much looking forward to it - 2 reps from each of the groups doesn't necessarily cover all of the opinions of the majority of fans, although I recognise inviting reps from the various groups in the only way to do the meeting - I am genuinely interested in what the majority of people think. None of the invited groups can claim to represent their "members" if they only express their personal opinions.

 

Regardless of what I personally think of something, my responsibility is to the group's opinion. As for the Trust, we can only have an opinion of the points you raised when

a] we know the detail of what's involved in the new version of the scheme and

b] we've asked the members and fans for their thoughts.

 

Finally, I won't get logged back in here until Monday.

 

If anyone wants to contact me (unless it's to say I can't be bothered or that I'm a w***nker, or similar) you can get me on twitter @davymains, on facebook via the fellow jags or bobbylaw groups or even by email [email protected] - I'm easy to find

[Norgethistle]

I apologise my intemperate post last night after a very difficult journey home in atrocious weather.

 

Stuart Ayton's "opinion" above is spot on but I do not agree that we now have progress. There has no been official statement from the club. Firstly, we had another vague promise on here from a Davy Mains via a third party. Note that Davy Mains is not listed as a board director on the club website.

 

Jim Alexander aka Jordanhill Jag, the club's Marketing Director, has posted an update this morning. The club website says that he is responsible for "fan communications" - "working closely with the onethistle marketing team, the aim is to deliver professional and effective marketing campaigns that have measurable results." There have been no measurable results in relation to the Supporters Federation or TAG and the the lack of communication with fans has been appalling.

 

Even on this thread, there has no explanation from Jim for the failure to deliver the Supporters Federation or TAG this year. He did not even tell us who is responsible or implementing the supposed relaunch. Yet we are supposed believe that the Barcelona draw, due in May, will still take place.He asks us to listen to the (his?) plans and then judge. However, I am judging on the events of the last year and the verdict is total and utter abject failure.

 

Full answers to Potty Trained's excellent list of questions are required before we can begin to take this proposed relaunch seriously. After the failures of the last year, the first step is for those at the club who are responsible for the Supporters Federation/TAG to resign their positions immediately. If they will not resign voluntarily, David Beattie should dismiss and replace them with those who have a proven track record of delivery of "measurable results". Only then can we even think of taking any relaunch or future scheme seriously.

 

From what i heard the ground work promo launch etc was done by OneThistle (With J.A. involved and others) it was rolled out and handed over to the club (Brian Donald) at the Morton game.......... then nothing.

 

Some questions need to be asked at the meeting as to what some of the board members actually bring to the club if it is not money or investment, Chopra, Donald to name a few. The fact that Beattie, Donald and Maxi will not be in attendance is shocking. Beattie is the figurehead for the club, Donald was in charge of TAG and Maxi is the general manager (And with so so much going wrong off field he should be there).

 

Jim is and always had tried to ensure better fan involvement / communication / matchday experience and I don't know whether its fair if he or Greig get the flak for items they either are not responsible for or may not have the answers to.

 

I welcome the idea of TAG plus supporters associations, especially for the demographic and elected

[David Stevenson]

Some of the comments on this thread, specifically in relation to the Jags Trust and Davy Mains in particular are ridiculous and more suited to the knicker-wetting thread.

[Lenziejag]

Of course, another way to look at it is that there is more chance of some progress being made if the culprits of Tag failing aren't in attendance.

 

I agree that in order to re gain confidence,then an explanation of what went wrong first time and how it won't be repeated is needed - but I am not sure that it needs to be from the 3 mentioned.

 

Although it looks like a lot of supporters want them to be there, along with stocks and a free supply of rotten fruit.

[kni]

Kni - I couldn't get logged on last night - wasn't that I couldn't be bothered to comment or post, I couldn't. I'm gonna take strong exception to that comment and I'm not exactly thrilled to be described by you as a "w***ker" - care to justify either comment?

 

 

I am far from thrilled by the performance of the club's board and the Jags Trust. I take strong exception to the fact that they have failed to deliver the Supporters Federation and the TAG scheme.

 

The Jags Trust website has not been updated since 4th November. Why? The previous post were on 16th September when your appointment as Trust Board Representative was announced. Three posts in six months is very poor show.

 

What have you and Trust done to hold the board and staff to account over the formation of the Supporters Federation and the TAG scheme? There is no mention of either on the Trust's website. Why?

 

 

Is the Thistle Community Initiative, a joint venture with the trust, still active? Keiron Dempsey, Community Director, is described as the "fans representative". Can you update us on his activities or tell us who has taken on his role?

 

Finally, Can you tell us why communication between the club, the Trust, the Community Initiative and the fans is so poor? I would describe it as almost non existent.

[kni]

Some of the comments on this thread, specifically in relation to the Jags Trust and Davy Mains in particular are ridiculous and more suited to the knicker-wetting thread.

 

Questioning what the Jags Trust has done to get the Supporters Federation and TAG scheme started is not knicker-wetting.

 

The diversion and evasion on this thread has been most illuminating.

Edited February 15, 2014 by kni

[ian_mac]

 

 

Questioning what the Jags Trust has done to get the Supporters Federation and TAG scheme started is not knicker-wetting.

 

The diversion and evasion on this thread has been most illuminating.

 

You make some valid points but as soon as you start dishing out personal insults your post becomes invalid.

[kni]

You make some valid points but as soon as you start dishing out personal insults your post becomes invalid.

 

I apologised in comment 26. Our fantastic Jags Trust representative must have missed that. The club and the Trust towards the fans is insulting. They must think that we are stupid to believe their spin. It's just like the bad old days when Liane was treated like dirt.

[One t in Scotland]

 

(And with so so much going wrong off field he should be there).

 

Er, like what? Did I miss Thistle going into admin?

[Willjag]

I apologised in comment 26. Our fantastic Jags Trust representative must have missed that. The club and the Trust towards the fans is insulting. They must think that we are stupid to believe their spin. It's just like the bad old days when Liane was treated like dirt.

You can do better than apologise. You can edit the post for a start. Juan Kerr is an entirely different poster on here. I know both of these Firhill regulars.

 

p.s. Two n's in Lianne and she'll be the first to tell you that there were others treated much worse than she was. Pity it cost the Club one of their most honest and dedicated fans.

[Norgethistle]

Er, like what? Did I miss Thistle going into admin?

 

We had a shambles with ST's, Celtic tickets, CF, communication, St J ticketing prices, office being closed for nearly 2 weeks at Xmas, Catering complaints etc etc

The fact we are not in admin does not mean we are doing it correctly, a lot has went wrong since last season, would be good to know what lessons have been learned from it

[Fawlty Towers]

In answer to the original question - I would be pleased and would sign up.

[Jordanhill Jag]

Tangent time.

If that percentage is taken from the whole season fanbase,, ie including those under 16, then it's alarming. I'd have expected a figure no more than the Scottish average (circa 17%). Obviously within that 17% you have to include seriously infirmed and housebound. So if our season ticket holders were representative of the nation as a whole you should only have maybe around an 1/8th rather than 1/4 aged 65 and above.

It stands to reason then that we've an aging fanbase The Club have gone someway to redress this with the Kids Go Free initiative. Maybe the next step is to look at what must be a disappointingly low amount of full paying ST holders. So anything that TAG can do to increase these numbers must be beneficial and a worthwhile target group.

 

In the invite to the various Supporters Groups one of the topics for discussion is Fan Growth funny it hasn't got a mention or peoples opinions sought as its of equal importance as TAG for the very reasons you have just stated.

 

I accept the frustration and disappointment regards lack of progress and communication on TAG BUT its the vehicle for Communication ,building the Fanbase and organising a Supporters organisation that all Jags Fans can participate in.

[potty trained]

 

 

David - you are reading too much into it. I only saw the invitation late last night - I'm interested as to what fans - members of the Trust and non-members thought. I couldn't get logged in on the forum but a similar question was posted on twitter and facebook - and a good range of opinions were expressed. In terms of "reaching out" that's exactly what I did/ am doing - but I'm not excluding anyone.

 

The meeting next Saturday has invited 2 reps from each of the various supporters groups to hear the proposals - and I'm very much looking forward to it - 2 reps from each of the groups doesn't necessarily cover all of the opinions of the majority of fans, although I recognise inviting reps from the various groups in the only way to do the meeting - I am genuinely interested in what the majority of people think. None of the invited groups can claim to represent their "members" if they only express their personal opinions.

 

Regardless of what I personally think of something, my responsibility is to the group's opinion. As for the Trust, we can only have an opinion of the points you raised when

a] we know the detail of what's involved in the new version of the scheme and

b] we've asked the members and fans for their thoughts.

 

Finally, I won't get logged back in here until Monday.

 

If anyone wants to contact me (unless it's to say I can't be bothered or that I'm a w***nker, or similar) you can get me on twitter @davymains, on facebook via the fellow jags or bobbylaw groups or even by email [email protected] - I'm easy to find

 

But surely you and the trust had an opinion before Friday afternoon?

 

If you seek non members opinion, and you wish we be open and honest, then do you return that and be open and honest with non members?

 

In the last year, the society board should have met in formal meeting at least 4 times as per the constitution. What has been minuted around TAG and the federation, by the trust in that time, what was the trusts stance regarding TAG and the federation up until Friday afternoon?

 

Has the trust met with the club and discussed TAG or the formation of a supporters federation in the last 12 months? If so, what was discussed and what was your position during these meetings.

 

Do the trust fear the formation of a supporters federation will completely kill off the possibility of the trust ever having board room representation?

 

You say the trust can't have an opinion until it knows the opinion of its members, and non members curiously ... Why is this the case? It would infer the trust hold the formation of a federation as a major issue for the future of the trust, otherwise you would treat it the way you treat any other article of discussion and take up a position based on the opinions of the society board.

 

You say "None of the invited groups can claim to represent their "members" if they only express their personal opinions". However I don't see anyone having made or suggested such a claim. You then say "Regardless of what I personally think of something, my responsibility is to the group's opinion. As for the Trust, we can only have an opinion of the points you raised when we've asked the members and fans for their thoughts."

 

That is not correct at all, the society board should be elected via a voting process through an election where you put forward your manifesto. Your manifesto lays out your beliefs and opinions on the route the trust should take. You win votes based on this. Your members elect you to serve them based on your manifesto, they elect you because they read your manifesto(opinion) and believe you will make decisions that represent them.

 

They do not elect you, because they know the society will come to its members every time it needs to form an opinion! If you make the wrong decisions, then you live by that, and fail at the next election or stand down. The society is elected with faith put in them by the members.

 

You were elected because of your opinions, stand firm and stand by them. Otherwise, what makes you a better candidate than someone who lost the election?

 

 

[Trotter]

 

Do the trust fear the formation of a supporters federation will completely kill off the possibility of the trust ever having board room representation?

 

 

& under Beattie's watch, that isn't going to happen which does kinda render the Jags Trust as a bit of a 'Deid Duck'

 

I'm reluctant to say the same of the TAG scheme as I think it's more beneficial to our Nomad fans & in seeing I'm not one of them I'll refrain from doing so.

 

However, I think Ian Mac is correct in saying it should be Beattie, Donald & Maxwell fronting up.

 

A perfect example of delegation I suspect.

 

Or, as it's better known, keeping heads below the parapet!!

[stillresigned]

Do we really need all this petty, personal abuse it'lll not hep in any way and IMO will only further reinforce the divisions in our ever shrinking fan base.

[Jaggernaut]

I must admit to never being enthusiastic about being TAGged at the time, and don't see how it was anything to really get excited about. Never had it, so don't miss it. So it has died a death; the club and the fans certainly have other more urgent things to deal with now.

[kni]

In the invite to the various Supporters Groups one of the topics for discussion is Fan Growth funny it hasn't got a mention or peoples opinions sought as its of equal importance as TAG for the very reasons you have just stated.

 

I accept the frustration and disappointment regards lack of progress and communication on TAG BUT its the vehicle for Communication ,building the Fanbase and organising a Supporters organisation that all Jags Fans can participate in.

 

As the club's Marketing Director, fan and revenue growth should be your personal responsibility, i.e. fan growth generates drives the number of season tickets that are sold and increases the number of paying customers at the gate.

 

TAG membership should have been a key driver of fan growth and ticket sales. Free membership was advertised as a key benefit for those who purchased a season ticket. The TAG page on the club site sets out the benefits that season ticket holders have missed out on. Will season ticket ticket holders be entitled to a compensation, refund or voucher?

 

 

Please tell us what have you done to promote fan growth, i.e. attendances, this season. Please explain why has the club decided that it does not need the TAG income this season? The club website states that your "role covers all aspects of fan communications". What have you done to update fans on TAG this season? There have been no statements on the club website.

 

You, as Marketing Director, must provide explanations for the failure to deliver TAG or to communicate to fans the reasons for its cancellation or delay.

[kni]

Do we really need all this petty, personal abuse it'lll not hep in any way and IMO will only further reinforce the divisions in our ever shrinking fan base.

 

We need the club's board, official and staff to take responsibility for their failure and inaction in relation to TAG and Supporters Federation. Perhaps they have been threatened with compensation claims by disgruntled season ticket holders who have not received key elements of the package that they purchased. Trading Standards officials may be taking an interest too as PTFC is a business and cannot escape its contractual obligations.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Will those handing out the abuse, innuendos and gross criticism to unpaid volunteers be anywhere to be seen if/when a Supporters Association is established?