Stewarty Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) I don't get the whole two up front argument that continually resurfaces. Football tactics have moved on; very few teams are able to succeed while playing two strikers as they lose control of the midfield. Man City did so occasionally last season because Toure was so dominant he could just about boss a midfield on his own. This season they've reverted to one up front. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd - they also play with a lone striker supported by three attacking midfielders. In the first few games Van Gaal tried something different by going 352, which was popular at the World Cup, but they were getting torn apart at the back. Now they're back to playing a lone striker with Rooney or Mata playing as an attacking midfielder. Our problem at the moment is that two of our most creative players, Higgy and Fraser, aren't 100% fit. Formation is not the issue. Without creative midfielders it doesn't matter whether you have one, two or three strikers playing up front - they'll still be standing around twiddling their thumbs. As for Craigen, he reminds me of Park Ji-Sung, in that, while he plays in an advanced position, his main attributes seem to be workrate and positional sense. He's not a creative no.10. I think he's a useful player to have in the squad, for games where we are less likely to dominate possession, but he's not the type of player who's going to provide the creative spark we needed yesterday. The only possible solution is to play Stevenson in a deeper role, but such a move comes with its own risks, as Potty Trained has suggested. I'm slightly more optimistic that it could work, but only in certain games or where we are dominating a game and want to add an additional attacking threat. Edited December 7, 2014 by Stewarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 JHS, second aisle from the south, about half way down and just in to the left? Just a hunch. Spot on - are you one of them? We have always been a moany, hard to please bunch of supporters but these guys clearly enjoy being on the cutting edge of negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Don't think Kris Doolan is the only one off the boil, face it Potty trained, we are getting worse week by week. And yet we have picked up 3 more points now than we had last season at this time of year. And I think we're also further off the bottom teams than this time last season. I'm not saying this means we've been playing great football but it must mean we're doing something right when we can be in this position and have been through a period with key players out and not yet fully fit. I think the team deserves credit for this and if we can get all players fit and a couple of players in come January we should be able to push on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglemon Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Spot on - are you one of them? We have always been a moany, hard to please bunch of supporters but these guys clearly enjoy being on the cutting edge of negativity. Good thing about the North Stand is there is much less of that type of sh*te Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Spot on - are you one of them? We have always been a moany, hard to please bunch of supporters but these guys clearly enjoy being on the cutting edge of negativity. Not guilty. But I had to move, i couldn't take it any more. Wasn't yesterday, so it's obviously their regular thing. I know there's always moany people at the football, but this pair are something else. Would be comedy, but too depressing for comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 It's some people's form of entertainment, go to the game and have a right good moan for ninety minutes. It does get hard to listen to at times, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 That was pretty uninspiring, couldn't even be bothered posting about it last night. I disagree with the stick Elliot takes, I think he's improved tremendously last year or so. Was always a good athlete with minimal footballing ability, but I feel he's improved technically now, by no means a fantastic player but I like him, and is good cover in the fullback area. And when your left back is as poor as Jake Carrol you need all the help you can get. Creating chances is a hard thing to do I'm not doubting that, but it's so hard to watch the team when it's as toothless as it is just now. We need a Lyle Taylor type signing which will freshen us up and give us a new attacking threat as we're struggling at the minute. With the fitness and form issues surrounding Fraser and Higgy it's no surprise, they are so important to us, and if they're not playing well, or playing at all, we're a weaker team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Earl of Hathaway Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 JHS, second aisle from the south, about half way down and just in to the left? Just a hunch. This guy was at the end of the row I was sitting in. To his credit, he gave a bunch of us the entertainment that was sorely lacking on the pitch with the absolute mega-rocketry of his 'bantz'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Playing a lone striker can be part of an exciting formation but it needs two if not three of the attacking midfielders to be quick, skillful & creative with the ability to score goals. Chris Erskine was the key figure in this when we were playing at our best in the two previous seasons, Higgy did brilliantly last year and Lawless has done well in spells. Elliot & Craigen don't really have the skill set but they are in the team because they are the pragmatic options available - maybe we should give McDaid a chance. It makes us a dull standard SPFL team that is not very entertaining to watch. I also think that we are missing the attacking runs down the left from ATS which gave Higgy more space to play in. Doolan hasn't been at his best this season but every time he has played he has looked better than Stevenson in the lone striker role. Which again begs the question - when he was signed, where was Archie intending to play Stevenson in our formation? He was hoping to sign Lyle Taylor at the time, so it clearly wasn't as a striker. Presumably, he was to be an alternative to Lawless. I agree he doesn't have the engine to play in Craigen's role and the alternative seems to be trying Bannigan or Fraser in that attacking midfielder role which they aren't really suited to. Maybe we should tweak the formation to get the best out the players we've got? I have no knowledge of the respective budgets of the other sides in the SPFL but I would be a little surprised if Inverness had significantly more resources than us. They didn't sign anyone over the summer and have changed their style of play this season from Butcher's Hoofball to a pass and move outfit. We beat them at Firhill though - it doesn't seem unreasonable for us to aspire to something similar to what they have achieved. This season is a once in a lifetime opportunity to make an impact in the top League - it's disappointing that we're doing no more than struggling to stay clear of clubs in disarray. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 We need a Gary Harkins type in midfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 We need a Gary Harkins type in midfield What? Fat and lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distel Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 If you think it's that easy to just progress, progress, progress, year on year in the premiership, then you don't really know the Premiership. Never thought it would be easy Potty Trained. I just had hopes that once we had secured our place in this years SPFL the board and manager would strengthen the team with a bit more quality. Especially in the positions where we lost a couple of strong players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Ok, so we're a couple of points better off than last season. But i firmly believe that we should be more ahead than the dross below us. If we had been a bit more adventurous (yesterday for example) we would have more points and be in top half of the table. Football should not be about setting up not to lose, it should be about setting up to win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Talking about those we lost, has ATS played a game for Wigan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 It's some people's form of entertainment, go to the game and have a right good moan for ninety minutes. It does get hard to listen to at times, though. Winter of '63 hits it on the nail saying these punters like to be on the "cutting edge of negativity". But in truth they're as often as not dinosaurs. But they're Jags fans. Pay their hard end cash blah blah. Financial truth in that and so we certainly can't afford to do without them. As way of compromise could those Waldorfs & Statlers not be singled out and offered reduced pay at gate prices or discounted season tickets? On the one proviso they never sit in the same seat more than once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Talking about those we lost, has ATS played a game for Wigan? 1 cup game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Ok, so we're a couple of points better off than last season. But i firmly believe that we should be more ahead than the dross below us. If we had been a bit more adventurous (yesterday for example) we would have more points and be in top half of the table. Football should not be about setting up not to lose, it should be about setting up to win. What is the big deal at not being in the top 6 just now. surely the important time to be there is with 5 games to go ? Just as a matter of interest, what was the most points ahead of 2nd bottom were we ever last season, and how many ahead is acceptable for you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 1 cup game That seems such a waste. I see Steven Craig and Lyle Taylor are both playing in the FA Cup this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 My point is that we could have more points than we have just now by playing a more attacking set up, yesterday being a prime example. As well as being higher in the table we would be clearer of the teams below us. I like to see us sitting high up the table no matter the time of season. Maybe you settle for mediocrity and survival. Some of us have more ambition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 My point is that we could have more points than we have just now by playing a more attacking set up, yesterday being a prime example. As well as being higher in the table we would be clearer of the teams below us. I like to see us sitting high up the table no matter the time of season. Maybe you settle for mediocrity and survival. Some of us have more ambition. I agree we should be more ambitious both in the way we play and about our League position. St Johnstone lost 5 successive League Games...Kilmarnock lost 4 successive League Games and were cuffed by a Lower League side in the Cup. They both ended their poor runs by drawing at Firhill in dull games where we never really put them under pressure. Despite these poor runs, they are both higher up the League than us but didn't look better than us. I enjoyed the way we played last season far more even if we didn't get the results we deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Add to that St.Mirren were on a woeful run and came from behind to beat us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancipital Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 If we want to be "on pace" for a top 6 finish , then it's not an exact science but 42 or more points after 33 games is a good benchmark to aim for based on the previous 14 seasons of this setup. So after yesterday's game top 6 pace would be 20 points (which would only be good enough for 7th as it stands but as I say it's not an exact science). That aside- I definitely don't think Stevenson was signed as a striker hence the pursuit of Lyle Taylor and the (panic) signing of Eccleston. Surely the attacking midfielder / number 10/ whatever is the one player you can afford to be not quite as defensively strong. If we're playing Craigen there because of his work-rate to rather than his ability to create chances or score goals then it's no wonder we're not creating much. On the plus side, we're a lot more clinical this year, whilst we're not creating as much, we're definitely converting a higher % of chances, with goals from all over the team. Last year only Doolan, Lawless, Higgy, Forbes and Muirhead scored in the league before new year with pretty much all of them from open play by Dools. Think we've had 11 different scorers in the league this season plus Stevenson and Eccleston in the cups. I'd like to see us play Doolan and Stevenson as well- we did try that for 3 games- one win and 2 defeats, ending in the gubbing at Rugby Park. Don't know if that's what caused Archie to scrap it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Eh?? Everyone was raving a week ago about how good we were against Hamilton. That first game of the season against Ross County, we were terrific to watch, just think that the entertainment value of the team is lacking this season, compared to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 My point is that we could have more points than we have just now by playing a more attacking set up, yesterday being a prime example. As well as being higher in the table we would be clearer of the teams below us. I like to see us sitting high up the table no matter the time of season. Maybe you settle for mediocrity and survival. Some of us have more ambition. But it is just speculation that if we had been more adventurous we would have won. We could just as easily have lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Add to that St.Mirren were on a woeful run and came from behind to beat us. And Inverness hadn't lost a goal before they came to Firhill. And we hadn't won away before we went to St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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