The Cup Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Funny how someone is to blame for a negative result but never credited for the positives. The table rarely lies we have improved on last year and look to be consolidating our position in the league which for me was the goal at the start of the season, to have the points gap we have at this point is excellent. The two teams immediately above us are well within reach and there for thinking positively we have a real chance of finishing 6th or 7th, again most would take that at the start of the season. It's easy to get rid of a manager but when you look at the options that were/are touted for the St Mirren, Motherwell or Ross County jobs can you seriously saying that any of those would excite you? Archie is doing a fine job, get of his back and support the team, believe me these are the good times to be a jags fan it has been and will get a lot worse than this. He's doing an OK job. Certainly not as good as Neil at Hamilton but better than McCoist. The old Thistle from last season is still there. Signing better players have improved results. What is the point of the forum if everyone just comes on here and says how utterly fantastic we are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think it's the frustration of thrown away points and knowing we are better than our league status shows that shows itself on the forum. I don't think we've stolen points from games, the way that other teams have from us and maybe we need one or two of those to make us feel less "cheated" by fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Don't think changing the manager is really an option but Archie/Shaggie shouldn't be adverse to pertinent criticism now and again. Don't know how they're conveying Game Management to the players but it obviously isn't working as we seem to lose points and goals in the last minutes of games. The game was won yesterday but we failed to keep hold of the ball, play it into corners or even Archie breaking up play with a couple of substitutions . Watched Stevenson yesterday and thought he played well, not as mobile as Dools but a bit stronger and the game changed when he went off. If Archie wanted to give Dools game time , why not even play Dools behind Stevenson and take off Craigen. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 i agree. presuming st mirren and ross county invest heavily come the new year then 10th place would be fine by me. anything higher would be a lovely bonus... I think it's called getting more money ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Craigen and Elliot just aren't up to it. They can hold their own, just, in this league. But with those two players, who barely played in the championship, are never going to be top 6 players. Elliot needs to provide more width going forward, he makes things more solid because he sits so deep. But that isn't just his job. Craigen is just powderpuff. Other players must love how easy taking the ball of him is. As backup they are fine, first team starters? Definitely not, if we want to progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I have finally agreed - Archie must go. There a long list of excellent candidates for the post who are much better than him: Mick McCarthy has done a great job at Ipswich, get him. Or maybe Ronald Koeman who surprised the football world with his work at Southampton. Or the Bournemouth guy Eddie Howe? He'd jump at a move to Thistle too. Swansea play decent football- get Gary Monk in Spain, Portugal, Germany are full of managers. Can't we just randomly pick one of those guys, got to be be better than Archie. Sack the board!!!! Or we could go for someone with a proven track record in Scottish football like Danny Lennon or Kenny Shiels or that guy doing well at Forfar, Dick something. You forgot the outstanding candidate a Mr McCoist of Govan, I understand he'll be available shortly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I really do despair at this place sometimes. Same old crackpots saying that Archie has to take the blame. So by that logic he should also take the credit when we win. I don't remember too many of yon crackpots dishing out the praise after a quite brilliant 4-0 win at Inverness last week. He does deserve constructive criticism at times of course - but that simply isn't what's going on here. It's the same old faceless, gutless, keyboard warriors hiding behind dodgy user names who have obviously decided that they will take great pleasure in defeat of the team they have supposedly supported for decades. The most disappointing thing for me yesterday was that we could have won 2 consecutive games for the first time since we came back up. I think the ability to do break this hoodoo will be the difference between us finishing top 6 and possibly being dragged in to the relegation scrap. I think Motherwell will come good eventually, they've got too many good players to be scrapping around with the likes of St. Mirren and County. Higgy wasn't having his best day yesterday and should possibly have been subbed for Lawless. When so much of the play goes through 1 player you really need him to have a good game. The referee was nothing short of a disgrace - how he gave a foul against Bannigan on the corner of the box I will never know - one of the cleanest tackles you will ever see and it summed up Thomson's afternoon. That said - if anyone had been offered 4 points from these past 2 games 8 days ago, would you have been pleased with that? I certainly would but I know there will predictably be others who wouldn't. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted December 21, 2014 Members Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Anybody here read in the programme yesterday that some of the players have been hit with a sickness bug recently? This week it was Osman and Lawless (maybe why Stevie wasn't brought on yesterday?) I think the rest of the bench was made up with youngsters. Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I've always thought if you want to hold onto a lead, it's best to play your most experienced players. I don't think the remainder of the bench yesterday total combined Thistle 1st team appearances get in to double figures? I do, however, think taking Steveo off yesterday probably wasn't the best idea. I thought he was our best player yesterday along with big Dan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted December 21, 2014 Members Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Stolen from P&B- Since we have come up. Hearts (h)- 89th minute equaliser Hibs (a) - injury time equaliser Killie (h)- injury time equaliser Motherwell (a) 3-2 up with 5 to go, lose 4-3. Hibs (a) - 87th minute equaliser Hamilton (h) 1-0 up with 4 to go, lose 2-1 St Mirren (h)- injury time winner Hamilton (a) - injury time equaliser Dundee (h)- 90th minute equaliser That list makes grim reading, and is the reason we are not in the top 6. Clearly these teams throw caution to the wind for it in the last 5 minutes. It happens too often to be bad luck. Someone must be to blame and it all points to Archibald not being able to change the team to counteract. Losing so many goals in the last few minutes of games cannot be put down to chance: it has to be a consequence of bad decisions made on and off the pitch by both players and management. The central defence has been improved hugely since last year (yesterday they looked very comfortable for 85 mins) yet this season (using The Cup's data above) we have lost 6 points before Christmas compared to 7 for the whole of last season. I cannot understand why the Club should sit back and do nothing to improve the performance of its key employee. I think you really need to think about who was playing in defence in those games rather than compare them against last season. The defence has improved immeasurably since last season. I think at least two of those games, Hamilton and St. Mirren defeats at home came when Seaborne was injured and not on the pitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I've no idea - I've never heard anyone suggest it is. It is however a very obvious measure of success in our League - less significant than relegation but a reasonable aspiration. A number of posters have suggested that it's unrealistic for our club to expect to be in the top six - my point is that Inverness and Hamilton are virtually certain to be there and I actually think that we have better players and a better team than them but they are in no danger of being relegated and could qualify for Europe. Personally, I enjoyed watching us more last year particularly with the added excitement of the late relegation escape but I have limited patience with the negative posters who can't seem to cope with any suggestion that we could be doing a bit better. Top 6 doesn't get you anything apart from prize money. Admittedly it does mean you won't get relegated or in the playoff. But you also achieve that by being more than 15 points ahead of 2nd bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think you really need to think about who was playing in defence in those games rather than compare them against last season. The defence has improved immeasurably since last season. I think at least two of those games, Hamilton and St. Mirren defeats at home came when Seaborne was injured and not on the pitch? Stop being so ******* rational, Willjag. Archie and the goalscorer are today's scapegoats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 If you look at the stats for this season compared to the same stage last season it is hard to argue against the fact we are doing better: 13/14 after 17 games saw us with 15 points, 14 goals scored and 27 conceded. This season we have 20 points, 23 goals scored and 20 conceded. I hear people saw we are not as good to watch this season yet we have scored 9 goals more than the same stage last season - either we are creating more chances or we are being more clinical but either way that is a good thing. The fact that we have tightened up at the back whist scoring more goals seems to indicate to me that we have progressed across the whole team. It can be easy for a team who are looking to concede fewer goals to get that aspect right but at the same time inhibit their creative side, we appear to have avoided that. For what it is worth I think the differences on here between fans is not so much have we progressed but how fast we are progressing. Fans always want everything yesterday but our progress is steady and often that provides for longer term success compared to teams who move up very quickly then start to fall down again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Top 6 doesn't get you anything apart from prize money. Admittedly it does mean you won't get relegated or in the playoff. But you also achieve that by being more than 15 points ahead of 2nd bottom. So all you aspire to is to avoid relegation? I think that the management and players have the ability to do better than that. Higher League placings reflect that we have won more points and probably played better football as well as getting more prize money - we might even attract more supporters. Sorry but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make - you don't get relegated if you have a better goal difference than second bottom...shouldn't we aim a bit higher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think you really need to think about who was playing in defence in those games rather than compare them against last season. The defence has improved immeasurably since last season. I think at least two of those games, Hamilton and St. Mirren defeats at home came when Seaborne was injured and not on the pitch? My point is a simple one. The defence has improved this season, Archie's tactical skill seem not to have improved, which has been a contributory factor in the number of late goals we have conceded. Hence my suggestion that he gets some help and advice in that area. Any other business would help their manager to plug gaps in his/her skills. Why not in football management? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 So all you aspire to is to avoid relegation? I think that the management and players have the ability to do better than that. Higher League placings reflect that we have won more points and probably played better football as well as getting more prize money - we might even attract more supporters. Sorry but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make - you don't get relegated if you have a better goal difference than second bottom...shouldn't we aim a bit higher? I meant to say more than 15 points ahead going into the split. I think this season our goal should be to avoid the relegation dogfight and at the moment we are well clear of that. I want to see us progress steadily - not have 1 fantastic season, like '63 and then disappear. So I don't aspire to top 6 this season. It would be fantastic if we did,though. We have more points so far this season. Are we playing better than last season? Are we getting more supporters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 My point is a simple one. The defence has improved this season, Archie's tactical skill seem not to have improved, which has been a contributory factor in the number of late goals we have conceded. Hence my suggestion that he gets some help and advice in that area. Any other business would help their manager to plug gaps in his/her skills. Why not in football management? Couldn't he just take advice from the guys on the forum because a lot of them seem to have the answers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 He's doing an OK job. Certainly not as good as Neil at Hamilton but better than McCoist. The old Thistle from last season is still there. Signing better players have improved results. What is the point of the forum if everyone just comes on here and says how utterly fantastic we are? Neil is doing a good job however given your contribution to the forum to date I am pretty certain if they go on a poor run you would be on the equivelant forum wanting him out. We are in a good position, we try to play with a good balance taking the game to the opposition it doesn't always come off but that is down to the quality of player and the inherent inconsistency in this level of player. The usual targets of Craigen, Elliott, Balatoni et al go out and bust a gut, if we had the budget they would be replaced no question until that day they should be supported and not abused by guys that probably couldn't even get as fit as them never mind skilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Craigen sold the jerseys. I wonder if held be any good with sports socks? A spell down in the juniors would maybe what he needs, me thinks we’d never hear from him again. Bannigan whose career is teetering on the edge nailed the fullback position, I thought we was very good, might have been outstanding if Higgenbotham had been on the same wave length. Totally scunnered by the officials, but the way the game was going, and the decisions Dundee got near the end, it was only a matter of time before they were getting a penalty.....should have been put to bed long before the end. Flipping jings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andynptfc Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Bannigan whose career is teetering on the edge. What the hell are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Bannigan whose career is teetering on the edge That's an improvement, as a couple of weeks ago you said it was over. What's the thinking behind these cryptic comments? Genuine question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Just watched the highlights. That own goal. Dear God, Conrad, what were you thinking? It was going nowhere. Just leave it and Seaborne had it covered. And I thought I couldn't get any more depressed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 My point is a simple one. The defence has improved this season, Archie's tactical skill seem not to have improved, which has been a contributory factor in the number of late goals we have conceded. Hence my suggestion that he gets some help and advice in that area. Any other business would help their manager to plug gaps in his/her skills. Why not in football management? During the championship season, Archie displayed considerably more tactical nous than McNamarra, hence the drastically improved away form. Our tactics have also changed this season, compared to last, which seems to be having a positive effect (more goals scored, fewer conceded and more points compared to this time last season). I also think there's a big difference between the late goals lost last season (and St Mirren this season, maybe) and the last two instances (Hamilton and Yesterday). Previously, we seemed to sit very deep and invite teams on to us. The other team tended to dominate and it became only a matter of time till they scored. Hamilton and Dundee were not like that. We were seeing out the game comfortably in both cases, I thought. Yesterday Dundee got a freakish own goal out of nothing. At Hamilton, it was simply a superb long range snap shot, again out of nothing. In both cases I thought we were unlucky, rather than tactically inept ot naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 For late goals scored by us last season, we seem to have forgotten Doolan's equaliser to earn us a vital point away to St Johnstone in the latter pre-split stage of last season. Must have been 90th minute, if not injury time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 What the hell are you talking about? Bannigan is now at the age where his talents must be displayed week in week out, this is not happening...in a league full of pensioners and Clydesdale horses he should be a shining diamond, this is not the case. He had a good game yesterday because that is his natural position, it also allows him to support the midfield, and support only. I’ll give you a wee clue, it’s not only what the player does when the balls at his feet, it’s what he does off the ball; this is why his career is on the brink. At one point in the first half he had a shooting opportunity, and passed.... QED. We must stop supporting mediocrity never forget Piccolo..... quod erat demonstrandum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Woeful stuff from Balatoni. He's an utter disaster of a player. 7 points dropped because of him. The 2 games against Hamilton and yesterday. Where's Muirhead? He deserves a run in the team more than this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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