Dark Passenger Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 So...where does he rank among Thistle's best managers? Behind McParland and Lambie? Ahead of Auld? Second only to Lambie in my lifetime, but the old guard might have other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Time will tell with Lambie but to date he has to catch up with McParland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 sack him, he is so useless, he can't even fold his arms properly, we should be in 3rd with our large top league income, our crowds are down because of him, with our potential not being reached our resources are down and youth academy has produced nothing, but he wastes his budget on big f#cking belgians, taylor who didn't score again today, and others like lawless and banzo who aren't physically big enough or good enough for this level, why do we waste wages on craigan and elliott they bring nothing to the team, we should have a manager like gus mcpherson or jimmy calderwood, they've won cups before don't you know. serious, sober answer tomorrow ..... just thought i'd post on behalf of the (now almost all silent and conspicuous by their absence) knicker-wetters and anti archieists and dunce bloggers (and that's before i get started on the alleged journalists and expert pundits). least by posting the above, they can see their views being expressed. idiots. one and all. in archie we trust. #wegotthis #wegotthisagain #ohlookwegotthisagainyetagain 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) sack him, he is so useless, he can't even fold his arms properly, we should be in 3rd with our large top league income, our crowds are down because of him, with our potential not being reached our resources are down and youth academy has produced nothing, but he wastes his budget on big f#cking belgians, taylor who didn't score again today, and others like lawless and banzo who aren't physically big enough or good enough for this level, why do we waste wages on craigan and elliott they bring nothing to the team, we should have a manager like gus mcpherson or jimmy calderwood, they've won cups before don't you know. serious, sober answer tomorrow ..... just thought i'd post on behalf of the (now almost all silent and conspicuous by their absence) knicker-wetters and anti archieists and dunce bloggers (and that's before i get started on the alleged journalists and expert pundits). least by posting the above, they can see their views being expressed. idiots. one and all. in archie we trust. #wegotthis #wegotthisagain #ohlookwegotthisagainyetagain Thought GUMS had hijacked your identity for a moment there Yoda....lol Edited May 3, 2015 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 ^^^^ Linda at it again. Ignores me but wants to keep talking about me. As for his friend above his post, that was almost in English. No fantasy being lived out on that post. I'll say again, nice to see the forum busy again & a few folk back on here after making statements doubting the manager & running or not saying anything at all. Life would be boring if we all had same opinion! As for where Archibald comes. Some would argue to be classed alongside Bertie Auld nothing to write home about!!! Seriously though... What now? What are people's aspirations for next season? Survival obviously & hopefully pushing towards a top 6 place rather than being closer to the bottom come the time of the split. A good cup run in either competition also. Know this could be a separate thread but anyone heard about a possible increase in ST next season? Any news on non old firm tickets? Assuming we have the 2 home games vs one arse cheek & if the other miraculously makes it. Was it not mooted last year as a possible by the Maxwell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I thought the whole point of having the dugouts facing the JHS is so we can see our manager jump around. Even if he did it arms folded we could at least claim he's part Cossack. It's kinda difficult to compare managers from different eras. Pre freedom of contract then pre Bosman, Even Archie operates in a different era to Lambie in respect of transfer windows. But if you just keep it to relative success on the park I think Archie can be compared favourably with the likes of Auld etc. Not quite there yet but getting close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues Brother Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Just shades the Bunnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Derek Johnstone, Peter Cormack, Benny Rooney, Wullie Lamont, Murdo MacLeod, Sandy Clark, Dick Campbell.... Alan Archibald is really, really okay as a manager. And he's improving with every game. Things are much better than they have been in the past. Without a doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 You could probably decide it by results. Something like :- Total number of teams in leagues less position we finished times number of points. So if we finished 8th on 44 points, the calc would be 42 - 8 = 34 x 44 = 1,496. You then need to mark down the points gained in a lower division. In the current 4 division set up, mark down points won in the championship by 1/4; league 1 by 1/2 and league 2 by 3/4. (In a 3 league set up markdown by 1/3 and 2/3). I guess you should then give some bonus for winning a championship or getting promoted/winning playoff - say 10 points and 5 points respectively. Also need bonus for winning a cup - say 50 for Scottish Cup and 25 for league cup. Calculate these for each season in charge add them together and divide by number of seasons to get an average So Archie's average would be 2014/15 - 1496(probably more) 2013/14 - 1216 2012/13 - 1706.5 Total - 4418.5 divided by 3 = 1472 If you do that for each manager concerned say Lambie; Auld; and Davie McParland you could compare just based on results If anybody has any spare time ? Or can be bothered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 You could probably decide it by results. Something like :- Total number of teams in leagues less position we finished times number of points. So if we finished 8th on 44 points, the calc would be 42 - 8 = 34 x 44 = 1,496. You then need to mark down the points gained in a lower division. In the current 4 division set up, mark down points won in the championship by 1/4; league 1 by 1/2 and league 2 by 3/4. (In a 3 league set up markdown by 1/3 and 2/3). I guess you should then give some bonus for winning a championship or getting promoted/winning playoff - say 10 points and 5 points respectively. Also need bonus for winning a cup - say 50 for Scottish Cup and 25 for league cup. Calculate these for each season in charge add them together and divide by number of seasons to get an average So Archie's average would be 2014/15 - 1496(probably more) 2013/14 - 1216 2012/13 - 1706.5 Total - 4418.5 divided by 3 = 1472 If you do that for each manager concerned say Lambie; Auld; and Davie McParland you could compare just based on results If anybody has any spare time ? Or can be bothered Jeezo, all a bit complicated! I think we should leave it as McParland, Auld, Lambie and Archie as being our most successful managers in the last 45 years. The only other slight positives were McCall and McNamara. The rest were useless in varying degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) You could probably decide it by results. Something like :- Total number of teams in leagues less position we finished times number of points. So if we finished 8th on 44 points, the calc would be 42 - 8 = 34 x 44 = 1,496. You then need to mark down the points gained in a lower division. In the current 4 division set up, mark down points won in the championship by 1/4; league 1 by 1/2 and league 2 by 3/4. (In a 3 league set up markdown by 1/3 and 2/3). I guess you should then give some bonus for winning a championship or getting promoted/winning playoff - say 10 points and 5 points respectively. Also need bonus for winning a cup - say 50 for Scottish Cup and 25 for league cup. Calculate these for each season in charge add them together and divide by number of seasons to get an average So Archie's average would be 2014/15 - 1496(probably more) 2013/14 - 1216 2012/13 - 1706.5 Total - 4418.5 divided by 3 = 1472 If you do that for each manager concerned say Lambie; Auld; and Davie McParland you could compare just based on results If anybody has any spare time ? Or can be bothered But even that would just be half the story as you have to take into account relative financial state of the Club when the various managers operated. Auld kept us in the top division for a good few seasons but maybe wouldn't have been able to without selling a few players for big money. For instance Wee Bertie may have struggled in the Lambie era. On paper McCall will possibly go down as a bog standard manager. Not that I'd ever claim he was one of the best but imo, because he had to work on a shoestring and clear up the mess that Campbell left, he was a class above average. Edited May 3, 2015 by lady-isobel-barnett 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) But even that would just be half the story as you have to take into account relative financial state of the Club when the various managers operated. Auld kept us in the top division for a good few seasons but maybe wouldn't have been able to without selling a few players for big money. For instance Wee Bertie may have struggled in the Lambie era. On paper McCall will possibly go down as a bog standard manager. Not that I'd ever claim he was one of the best but imo, because he had to work on a shoestring and clear up the mess that Campbell left, he was a class above average. Agreed. We started turning the corner when McCall came in. He picked up some half decent players and sold them for excellent profit, which ultimately helped save us from another STJ episode! Was delighted to see him keep Ayr up yesterday. Edited May 3, 2015 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Archie is not above criticism this season.His continual picking of Stevo up front , a midfield that continually sat too deep and a few bizarre team selections could have cost us dear but his transfers dealings were again good and the way he's motivated and organised the team since the County horror game has been superb. He is obviously. learning and developing into a very good manager . He now needs a bit of backing from the board to keep the majority of this squad together and take us forward. Sometimes I dare to think to myself ................"Is Archie the One?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) In no particular order here are the % W, D and L records of most club managers. All competitions and friendlies. Auld/Lambie refer to both/all spells with the club. McNamara 47 21 32 McCall 40 23 37 Campbell 40 25 35 Lambie 40 28 32 Auld 42 26 32 Whyte/Britton 32 20 58 Bryce 41 14 45 McVeigh 21 28 51 McLeod 32 24 44 Clark 12 35 53 McParland 39 27 34 Cormack 39 23 38 Rooney 26 29 45 Johnstone 24 30 46 Haggart 25 38 37 Lamont 36 21 43 Easton 37 23 40 Meiklejohn 43 19 38 Thornton 38 21 41 Symon 20 24 56 Purely statistically...... The" worst" manager(s) with 58% of matches lost were Whyte/Britton with 58% followed by Symon (56%) and Clark (53%). The "best" is McNamara with 47% of matches won followed by Meiklejohn (43%) and Auld (42%). If anyone is wondering if a committee could do better, covering around 880 games before George Easton was appointed, the figures are 49 13 38. Edited May 3, 2015 by a f kincaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 In no particular order here are the % W, D and L records of most club managers. All competitions and friendlies. Auld/Lambie refer to both/all spells with the club. McNamara 47 21 32 McCall 40 23 37 Campbell 40 25 35 Lambie 40 28 32 Auld 42 56 32 Do Bertie's figures not add up to 130? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yep. Sorry for the typo. Have amended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 3, 2015 Members Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Jeezo, all a bit complicated! I think we should leave it as McParland, Auld, Lambie and Archie as being our most successful managers in the last 45 years. The only other slight positives were McCall and McNamara. The rest were useless in varying degrees I'm pretty much in agreement with you there Jaggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yep. Sorry for the typo. Have amended. I actually thought Bertie's figure for draws might have stayed around the original quoted 56% knowing his penchant for defensive play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Jag Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Wow! Isn't it amazing how statistics fail to agree with your memory? There it is in black & white - Dick Campbell and John Lambie are almost exactly even in the results stakes - who would have thought it? Of course, you could argue that some of Lambie's results came in a higher division making his points more valuable but, on the other hand, he operated largely in an era with more money in the game and without the handicap of transfer windows. That said, I would argue that these figures show without doubt that Bertie Auld was our best manager ever. Although the stats favour Ratnamarra, Bertie had to keep a part-time team In a full time Premier Division and did so for 6 years reaching cup semi-finals along the way - and he didn't do that just b being defensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics! Dick Campbell was a dreadful manager and clearly, there should be a weighting for games in the top Division - a home draw against Stranraer or Berwick hardly equates to a point at Tynecastle or Pittodrie. I'm too young(!) to have an opinion on previous managers, but Dave McParland will be unrivalled as our best ever manager - winning a major trophy against a Celtic team filled with some of their best-ever players in the most sensational result in Scottish Football History. I will therefore forget the indifferent two seasons that followed. Dave was a real Thistle man and a gentleman. Bertie Auld inherited some fine players and built a strong team - three semi-finals, fifth in the League and playing top of the Premier League games in January. However, Bertie sold our best players and few were sorry to see him leave for Hibs. John Lambie's record in comparison to the others in his era speaks for itself - Cormack, Lamont, Johnstone, Clark, McLeod, McVeigh, Bryce, Collins, Whyte/Britton & Campbell were all pretty hopeless. There is a case against - he got the best out of journeymen pros, failed to bring through young players, his cup record was dreadful, he was in charge for the club's second worst ever League placing, never had a team that looked better than relegation survivors and left us three times in dire straights. McCall made some progress but ran out of steam...McNamara set the teamplate and initiated the improvement but Thistle were clearly a stepping stone and not a long-term project. Archie did very well to get us promotion, he has continued to attempt to play a quick pass & move style, has been innovative in the transfer market and has shown real character to guide the team through difficult fixtures at the end of the last two seasons. He has made a few errors but has done better than we could reasonably have expected. I'd therefore rate him third, behind McParland but with continued improvement in the League and better Cup performances in the future, capable of challenging Auld for second spot. Edited May 3, 2015 by Winter of '63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 In no particular order here are the % W, D and L records of most club managers. All competitions and friendlies. Auld/Lambie refer to both/all spells with the club. McNamara 47 21 32 McCall 40 23 37 Campbell 40 25 35 Lambie 40 28 32 Auld 42 26 32 Whyte/Britton 32 20 58 Bryce 41 14 45 McVeigh 21 28 51 McLeod 32 24 44 Clark 12 35 53 McParland 39 27 34 Cormack 39 23 38 Rooney 26 29 45 Johnstone 24 30 46 Haggart 25 38 37 Lamont 36 21 43 Easton 37 23 40 Meiklejohn 43 19 38 Thornton 38 21 41 Symon 20 24 56 Purely statistically...... The" worst" manager(s) with 58% of matches lost were Whyte/Britton with 58% followed by Symon (56%) and Clark (53%). The "best" is McNamara with 47% of matches won followed by Meiklejohn (43%) and Auld (42%). If anyone is wondering if a committee could do better, covering around 880 games before George Easton was appointed, the figures are 49 13 38. Thing is you'd have to also take into account what division the team was in. It's easier to get a better score if you aren't in the same division as Celtic (old) Rangers, Aberdeen, etc. Which is why Macnamara's score is so high. Don't forget some managers were in charge across several divisions, how do you sort that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 All valid points and probably no single answer. Just produced the statistics to stimulate debate. You'd need a GCHQ computer to factor in all the snags mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) What's Archie's WDL % ? Edited May 4, 2015 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 What's Archie's WDL % ? I'm near notorious for errors but I make it... League games only 31W 27D 31L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 We're looking good for 8th this season which would match Lambie's highest finish. If we could catch Hamilton then obviously that would improve on it. Different eras, different challenges etc, but league position is league position. Currently I think you could favourably compare him with anyone, but duration has to come into it so we won't really know how he compares overall for a few years yet. Simply put, he's doing very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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