lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I'm near notorious for errors but I make it... League games only 31W 27D 31L Cup games (final result) 5W 5L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I'm near notorious for errors but I make it... League games only 31W 27D 31L Which in percentage terms translates to 35, 30, 35. Suggest to me that striving for mediocrity still means we are fighting above our weight. I too was surprised that Bertie didn't figure more highly in the draw department. If we take it that while we all enjoy winning and a draw is not too hard to take it's losing that sticks in our craw then Archie with 35% of games lost sits equal with Campbell in ruining our weekends while only McNamara, Lambie and McParland have saved our Monday morning blues on more occasions (percentagily speaking). What I'm certain of is that we're not learning anything from statistical analysis of emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics! Dick Campbell was a dreadful manager and clearly, there should be a weighting for games in the top Division - a home draw against Stranraer or Berwick hardly equates to a point at Tynecastle or Pittodrie. I'm too young(!) to have an opinion on previous managers, but Dave McParland will be unrivalled as our best ever manager - winning a major trophy against a Celtic team filled with some of their best-ever players in the most sensational result in Scottish Football History. I will therefore forget the indifferent two seasons that followed. Dave was a real Thistle man and a gentleman. Bertie Auld inherited some fine players and built a strong team - three semi-finals, fifth in the League and playing top of the Premier League games in January. However, Bertie sold our best players and few were sorry to see him leave for Hibs. John Lambie's record in comparison to the others in his era speaks for itself - Cormack, Lamont, Johnstone, Clark, McLeod, McVeigh, Bryce, Collins, Whyte/Britton & Campbell were all pretty hopeless. There is a case against - he got the best out of journeymen pros, failed to bring through young players, his cup record was dreadful, he was in charge for the club's second worst ever League placing, never had a team that looked better than relegation survivors and left us three times in dire straights. McCall made some progress but ran out of steam...McNamara set the teamplate and initiated the improvement but Thistle were clearly a stepping stone and not a long-term project. Archie did very well to get us promotion, he has continued to attempt to play a quick pass & move style, has been innovative in the transfer market and has shown real character to guide the team through difficult fixtures at the end of the last two seasons. He has made a few errors but has done better than we could reasonably have expected. I'd therefore rate him third, behind McParland but with continued improvement in the League and better Cup performances in the future, capable of challenging Auld for second spot. best analysis in the thread imo, saves me typing out similar. agree with others it is hard to compare some managers records due to differing leagues, eras, budgets standards of players fitness and facilities. but the top three for me is mcparland, auld, with archie on a par with lambie. keep us up next season, and archie will be ahead of lambie. keep us up for next two seasons (with no improvement (or worsening) on finishing league position), and he'll be close to or equal with auld. but if we go top six next season or two, or win a cup, then every chance he can and should be rightly ahead of auld. it's not just a percentage wins basis that determines who is best, if it was that simple, then tommy bryce should be right in the mix (40.63%, w13 d4 l15). a managers greatness should be determined, at least in part with the duration he held the post, and what he has achieved consistently over a period of years, and at what level(s) ..... archie had never managed before, he was a complete rookie when archie took over from a manager who could not win away, turned our league challenge into a walk in the park in the end, took us up, and then kept us up with attractive football (with granted naivety from players and him on occasions), done same again this season (with less naivety and constantly improving attractive play and system, where you can see the players really buying into and making archies system work with increasing success) ..... so the longer archie stays and keeps us where we are, or improving us on different levels further, the nearer mcparland he will get ..... for at this moment in time, the continued improvement in league positions and style of play, after little more than twentyseven months, archie is shaping up to be one of the true thistle greats. another twentyseven months, and depending on what he has achieved for us, archie could be challenging to be compared justifiably alongside mcparland Edited May 4, 2015 by yoda-jag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 We're looking good for 8th this season which would match Lambie's highest finish. If we could catch Hamilton then obviously that would improve on it. Different eras, different challenges etc, but league position is league position. Currently I think you could favourably compare him with anyone, but duration has to come into it so we won't really know how he compares overall for a few years yet. Simply put, he's doing very well Lambie never had the split, we're currently 7th on points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Let's also remember McParland, Bertie and Lambie were old heads at the manager game plus had far better budgets than Archie. He's cam from managing the U20's to winning the league, securing our position in the top league and improving in the notorious difficult 2nd season, with a squad of kids. If Lambie was the messiah then the 2nd coming could be Archie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Lambie never had the split, we're currently 7th on points But we're 8th. And we're playing poorer teams than Dundee. Not really sure what you're suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Let's also remember McParland, Bertie and Lambie were old heads at the manager game plus had far better budgets than Archie. He's cam from managing the U20's to winning the league, securing our position in the top league and improving in the notorious difficult 2nd season, with a squad of kids. If Lambie was the messiah then the 2nd coming could be Archie David McParland had one season as coach before becoming manager - his only signings were Hugh Strachan & Alex Rae who were free transfers - he won promotion, beat Rangers & Celtic and won a trophy with a team of home grown youngsters - Archie has done well but in comparison he has had a huge budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Lambie never had the split, we're currently 7th on points Lambie did have a split in 2002/2003. Not really sure what your point is though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 4, 2015 Members Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 If you factored out the Cup win, I reckon most folk of a certain vintage would find it very difficult to separate McParland and Auld as Partick Thistle Managers. For me, Auld's Division 1 Champions were the most exciting Partick Thistle team I've ever seen. Auld's sides were a lot less inconsistent than the McParland teams were and went a long way to ridding of us the old Great Unpredictable label we were stuck with in those days. Although Lambie's back to back Champion sides had their good players, I'd go as far as saying that Archie's Champions from a couple of years ago were the best footballing side since the Auld side I mentioned earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Don't want to take anything away from the 75/76 team but they only had to play 26 league games that season. For me, the 2012/13 league win is a bigger achievement than 75/76 and also 01/02. 01/02 was a pretty poor first division where all other teams cancelled themselves out. We won it with a relatively low points total compared to 2012/13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 6, 2015 Members Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 It's not the achievement Ian, it was the manner of the league win and the style of football and players at the time. Dougie Somner was the best striker I've ever seen at the Club for instance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I accept that Will but the fact remains they only had to play 26 league games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I accept that Will but the fact remains they only had to play 26 league games. I don't see your point Ian, I think we lost only 2 league games that season. On that basis was Lambie better as he had a couple of seasons with 44 league games? Also 12/13 season had some pretty poor teams as well apart from Morton (until near the end of the season) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Can't go far wrong with the old points-per-game measurement (3 pts per win applied to both) 2.23 - 1975/76 (W17 D7 L2) 2.17 - 2012/13 (W23 D9 L4) If it hadn't been for Ratman messing up big chunks of Archie's campaign, 2012/13 would have won by a country mile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Can't go far wrong with the old points-per-game measurement (3 pts per win applied to both) 2.23 - 1975/76 (W17 D7 L2) 2.17 - 2012/13 (W23 D9 L4) If it hadn't been for Ratman messing up big chunks of Archie's campaign, 2012/13 would have won by a country mile... What was Archie's record for that season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 What was Archie's record for that season Here's one I prepared earlier 2.38 - Alan Archibald (W11 D5 L0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Here's one I prepared earlier 2.38 - Alan Archibald (W11 D5 L0) That really is a stunning record for your first 16 games in management, never mind the additional pressure of trying to win the league. Doubt many have done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 esopecially when you consider that two of the draws were after we'd already won the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinistar Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Archie article in Evening Times - http://www.eveningti...5694n.125202017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Archie article in Evening Times - http://www.eveningti...5694n.125202017 Great article. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 In Archie we trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Archie article in Evening Times - http://www.eveningti...5694n.125202017 Great article. Cheers. seconded. i also found this interview with lawless of interest. his fourth last and last quotes in particular. flys in face of what knickerwetting naysayers say archie is like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Archie's Advice about to run at Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Archie's Advice about to run at Hamilton. 2nd at 4/1. See Signore Piccollo won the other night tho! Edited July 16, 2015 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 See Signore Piccollo won the other night tho! ....always thought folk were too quick to call him a donkey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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