ian_mac Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 We won't cover our costs if we keep losing fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) We need to stop comparing ourselves to other clubs as a barometer of what we can get away with charging. Every club has it's own set of circumstances relevant to it's own support. At the moment, we are not getting away with charging £22, the fans aren't coming to games, and as a result we have lost key players to teams below us and have retained a paper thin squad. Edited August 18, 2015 by ian_mac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 The discount on pizzas with the 50/50 draw tickets is good, as are GPT's pub offers. The Club stated that there would be more offers/giveaways to entice/reward people for coming. Maybe the sooner the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Sevco imo will be back in the top league next season,no matter what we think of them they would bring a above average crowd.So we need to make sure that we are still in this league to benefit from them.The longer we can stay in this league the more fans will see us as a top teir club and not a yoyo club and that might bring some back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Reducing the cost of entry. Spending money to improve facilities. Entering into partnership agreements to give the fans discounts. These are all complex and/or expensive ways to try to increase the fanbase (or at least how often that fanbase attends Firhill). It strikes me that some stakeholder meetings would be much cheaper - all they would require is the BoD to have the courage to engage directly with the fans. Set up the federation structure, have regular dialogue, use this to understand the quick wins that will get more bums on seats for minimum cost. That's not to even mention Tag and the CF - we have two existing initiatives to generate money for the club and they're run terribly - they've clearly been put in the "this is too hard" box. What a shambles. Look at Hearts for example - they have 10k fans contributing £5 a month (or something like that) for the good of the club. Ok, we're smaller, but what happened to the CF "100k a year" target? What happened to Tag? The club needs to choose a couple of initiatives and execute them properly and consistently. That would be a start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Reducing the cost of entry. Spending money to improve facilities. Entering into partnership agreements to give the fans discounts. These are all complex and/or expensive ways to try to increase the fanbase (or at least how often that fanbase attends Firhill). It strikes me that some stakeholder meetings would be much cheaper - all they would require is the BoD to have the courage to engage directly with the fans. Set up the federation structure, have regular dialogue, use this to understand the quick wins that will get more bums on seats for minimum cost. That's not to even mention Tag and the CF - we have two existing initiatives to generate money for the club and they're run terribly - they've clearly been put in the "this is too hard" box. What a shambles. Look at Hearts for example - they have 10k fans contributing £5 a month (or something like that) for the good of the club. Ok, we're smaller, but what happened to the CF "100k a year" target? What happened to Tag? The club needs to choose a couple of initiatives and execute them properly and consistently. That would be a start. The board have done well on many things but have struggled on the two above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) My opinion is that the big difference between ourselves and the teams round about is is that we don't have a sugar daddy on the board. Nothing wrong with us living within our means, but because of this other teams are now getting players from us and are able to tempt players that we might have been interested in. Think everybody looks at clubs like ICT, Ross Co, Killie, Accies, St Johnstone, Motherwell, etc and wonder how they can beef up their squads with the crowds they get, while we can't. The main reason is that they have at least one person on the board who appears to be happy spending their children's inheritance, whereas we don't have. Edited August 18, 2015 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 reducing prices alone will not necessarily bring more people. It's just as likely that if you reduced the NS to say £18 you would see more people move from the JH but the total numbers would remain the same. Playing devils advocate now and I might suggest that more people in the NS would result in an improved atmosphere and a better match day experience could result in more people returning throughout the season. Ah, cause and effect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Lindau - those clubs ALL had higher attendances than us last season - so their budgets probably would have been bigger than ours anyway. Only Hamilton had lower crowds than us last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Lindau - those clubs ALL had higher attendances than us last season - so their budgets probably would have been bigger than ours anyway. Only Hamilton had lower crowds than us last season. Not by that much though and the difference might have been two home games against the teams with better travelling supports whereas last season we had one. (Don't have the facts to back that up). Listen, don't disagree that we are losing support and the point made earlier re the age of season tickets holders is very valid. They older ST holders may not have passed away, but they may just no longer be fit to go to games. The board have tried plenty of initiatives, so I hold my hands up and say I have no idea how we can reverse the process. The person I feel sorry for is the manager, who lets face it, compared to other teams with similar supports, is competing with one hand tied behind his back and is gonna be the first to get the flack from the usual faces, if we are not in the top 6 this season!! Edited August 18, 2015 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Only Hamilton had lower crowds than us last season. and County. Never found out if we lowered the patg price for the North Stand if we'd have to lower the price for away supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ian, all of this rhetoric is well and good but do you know how attendances are calculated? Are kids included? The 24% drop. Do you know if it is adults? or kids? or both? Until we know what we are talking about, we are making it up as we go along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 and County. Never found out if we lowered the patg price for the North Stand if we'd have to lower the price for away supporters. I believe it's like for like. So if we were to charge less for sitting behind the goal we wouldn't have to charge the away support less as they would have the same view as the Thistle supporters in the JH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Colin, it's always been my understanding that kids for free are included in the attendance figures and have been since the initiative was started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ian, all of this rhetoric is well and good but do you know how attendances are calculated? Are kids included? The 24% drop. Do you know if it is adults? or kids? or both? Until we know what we are talking about, we are making it up as we go along. It's already been pointed out that when you replace a 2nd home game with Celtic with a 2nd home game with Inverness. A 2nd Aberdeen with a second St Johnstone. 2 Hearts with 2 Hamilton 2 Hibs with 1 Dundee 1 Ross Co Add in the one Celtic game with Celtic was a midweek February game and the bumper 7800 v Dundee united in our first game back in the Premier league and you've accounted for over 20000 of the 27000 missing supporters. That leaves about 350 a game. Most of that imo is down to the novelty visits from teams we hadn't played in a while. Home and visiting supporters. But apparently that's an excuse and not a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ultimately, if you don't think there's a problem then fine - you can always find an excuse if you look hard enough for one. Personally, I think we need to have a serious look at all aspects of this decline and halt it before we find ourselves in "Armageddon" once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I personally don't give much of a shit about away gates at Firhill - they'll depend on how other teams are doing at the time. Our focus should be entirely around increasing the home support which, whether people like it or not, are in decline. The first step to solving a problem is admitting that you have a problem. The board should convene a fan meeting to outline the current situation, what their thoughts are, get fan input and co-create a collaborative plan for the next 5 years. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinolasBald Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I personally don't give much of a shit about away gates at Firhill - they'll depend on how other teams are doing at the time. Our focus should be entirely around increasing the home support which, whether people like it or not, are in decline. This is absolutely bang on. Away gates shouldn't be coming into our thoughts when trying to increase attendences. Its all about enticing Thistle fans back to Firhill. I don't want us to focus on encouraging teams like Hearts, Aberdeen etc to bring more fans because its pointless. We should be encouraging lapsed Thistle fans to come to Firhill, buy season tickets, invest money into the club by any means necessary. The club have so far made some encouraging signs but then when they either don't work, or get a bit difficult, they just patch them (see TAG). I hope the club were asking why people weren't renewing season tickets when they were phoning them and collating the information to act upon it to see if they could still get these people through the gate on a regular basis, rather than just saying "okay, thanks anyway" and that being that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I personally don't give much of a shit about away gates at Firhill - they'll depend on how other teams are doing at the time. Our focus should be entirely around increasing the home support which, whether people like it or not, are in decline. The first step to solving a problem is admitting that you have a problem. The board should convene a fan meeting to outline the current situation, what their thoughts are, get fan input and co-create a collaborative plan for the next 5 years. If the board are worried about the decline, that is a good idea. However we had a supporter on here last week and I use that term very loosely, stating that he would rather go to Tynecastle than attend the Killie game at Firhill, because Archie only played with one up front at Firhill!! Sorry to disillusion you mate, but I think that will be the case at Tynecastle as well! First rule of any supporter should be that you go to as many home games as possible as that's what helps your team prosper. Let's face it, not one penny of the gate money you hand over at an away league game goes anywhere near the Firhill coffers!Any supporter that has followed the club as long as me, should appreciate that the period we are in at the moment, is part of our glory years and enjoy it while it lasts. Then again, there are supporters that prefer us being a bigger fish in the lower divisions rather a smaller fish in the top division. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Most of that imo is down to the novelty visits from teams we hadn't played in a while. Home and visiting supporters. But apparently that's an excuse and not a reason. The sheer repetitiveness of fixtures is a completely valid reason why many folk don't attend week in week out. Doesn't explain why our home crowds should be down in isolation. I attend just about every game just now but if/when I get more selective it'll be down to the repetitive factor more than how the Jags are faring at that particular time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 The sheer repetitiveness of fixtures is a completely valid reason why many folk don't attend week in week out. Doesn't explain why our home crowds should be down in isolation. I attend just about every game just now but if/when I get more selective it'll be down to the repetitive factor more than how the Jags are faring at that particular time. That is definitely a factor. Isn't healthy to play a team, 5 or 6 times in a season, but that has been the situation for many years now, in all our leagues. An 18 team league with a league based League Cup to cover the shortfall in games should be looked at. If this was the case in the league, the pressure would, to some extent, be off managers and younger players should get more of a chance. Can only benefit Scottish clubs with more home grown talent coming through. I think we would have went more with youngsters this year if this had been the case. Can't see it happening though as it is almost certain Sevco will be back up again, so the TV companies will demand the minimum four new firm games every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) So kids for free are included in the numbers. Next question, how much of the 24% drop are kids for free? No point changing the entrance fee if the answer is " a lot". I reckon we are in danger of makimg up a problem that doesn't exist. Edited August 18, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Cost is (or may be) an issue but it's not the only one, scheduling and late rescheduling of games, repeatability of matches against the same team, stadium conditions, communication with fans, folk working shifts, folk moving away, less students, more choice of alternative entertainment, smoking ban, bus service reductions from likes of Drumchapel and Milgavie, more football on Telly. These will all play onto the attendance figures by varying degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) It always amazes me the number of people who will use the change in fixture list to try to deny there is a problem. Our attendances are falling - its obvious. Two examples : Sunday games v Celtic live on tv - this season - 7088, two seasons ago - 7978 Last home game v Kilmarnock - 3600; last home game v Kilmarnock prior to that 4503; first home game v Kilmarnock of the season 2 seasons ago - 4310 The attendances are in decline on a like for like comparison, regardless of how our fixture list falls. Edited August 18, 2015 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 It always amazes me the number of people who will use the change in fixture list to try to deny there is a problem. Our attendances are falling - its obvious. Two examples : Sunday games v Celtic live on tv - this season - 7088, two seasons ago - 7978 Last home game v Kilmarnock - 3600; last home game v Kilmarnock prior to that 4503; first home game v Kilmarnock of the season 2 seasons ago - 4310 The attendances are in decline on a like for like comparison, regardless of how our fixture list falls. Don't think there is anyone denying that we have had a substantial drop in attendance. The only thing that people are giving is what they think are the reasons and hopefully some solutions to the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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