Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Uhhhmmm. What about Christie? Is he a midfielder, striker, fullback, goalie, kitman, or generally-forgotten-about-man?? Edited October 16, 2016 by Barney Rubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Wasn't at the game yesterday but the highlights of Accies goals show yet more shambolic defending. I definitely think the loss of Frans has significantly weakened us. He was horrendously slow but the number of clean sheets we kept when he was in the team was staggering. Perhaps because he exuded so much confidence for the rest of the defence (similar situation with Seaborne)? Clearly the opposite is happening with Devine at the back and we look horrendous. As mentioned before the lack of options is criminal and could be the difference between us staying up this season. The next 3 games are huge,all realistically winnable, but also potential for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Uhhhmmm. What about Christie? Is he a midfielder, striker, fullback, goalie, kitman, or generally-forgotten-about-man?? He's an asset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Some random thoughts: Two seasons ago, Hamilton outplayed us in the first game at Firhill, scoring two late goals to win 2-1...last season, they came back from a goal and a man down to equalise & finish the stronger side...yesterday's result is not necessarily the beginning of the Apocalypse...and if we win our easy game in hand we would be seventh in the League. We could however have conceded 5 goals in the first half. Devine seems to be taking most of the stick - he hasn't been great and always seems to have the Balatoni-like mandatory blunder in every game but I thought that neither full back defended well in the first half and Accies were able to pass the ball through midfield almost completely unchallenged for most of the second half - Edwards & Barton were way off the pace. Very poor defending for the equaliser. I didn't have any particular issues with the team selection or formation. There definitely seems to be a fitness issues - apart from Edwards & Barton, Osman,Booth, Lawless & Doolan lack sharpness...there were a couple of occasions when Dools got in behind their defenders but didn't have the pace to get clear. Both our goals came from crosses...we used to score regularly with quick interchanges of passes but that didn't look likely yesterday. Frans & Seabourne were not particularly accomplished footballers, particularly against quick skillful forwards - they were shredded in the Cup Game against Inverness. However, as I posted on here more than once on here, they were good at heading the ball away which is a large part of defending in the Scottish game. I doubt that we would have lost that equaliser to Motherwell to an unchallenged header if they had been in the side. I think all Thistle fans are aware that we have possibly the lowest budget in the League. From Archie's comments at the time, Seabourne & Frans were given premium contracts when they first signed but he didn't think these were justified when the contracts were up for renewal. That seems entirely sensible management - why should Frans be paid extra when he wasn't first choice? However, it isn't good management to have only two central defenders - one unproven & already unpopular and the other an inexperienced youngster. Injuries or suspensions are almost inevitable...and Barton is not a tackler or despite his height particularly strong in the air. Not good use of our budget...and the same applies to our two strikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Wasn't at the game yesterday but the highlights of Accies goals show yet more shambolic defending. I definitely think the loss of Frans has significantly weakened us. He was horrendously slow but the number of clean sheets we kept when he was in the team was staggering. As TJR's fine stats proved conclusively. Freddy had a 40% shut-out record in 44 games (these figures are off the top of my head, so could be marginally wrong). Don't understand what Archie's plan was after last season - my only thought is that two other defensive targets to replace the leavers were missed. If so, that's a shame because he got so much right in signing up a core and effective squad for this season and next. We all hope this doesn't prove to be fatal........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 The equalizer they score is ridiculously easy. The next 2 games are crucial and we need to be taking at least 4 points if we are to stay up this season Vital games agreed, but a bit early for you to say we will be relegated if we don't take 4 points. My target for the first half of the season would be to ensure that we are in the pack or within touching distance. At that point hopefully Archie can address some of the glaring deficiencies in the squad in January. Think County are without their two main strikers next week. Even given that, no one can be confident that we can keep a clean sheet against them. Saw the Dundee highlights v Hearts and they created a lot of chances at Tynecastle. Can't judge a team on highlights but wouldnt be confident of them staying at the bottom for too long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 As TJR's fine stats proved conclusively. Freddy had a 40% shut-out record in 44 games (these figures are off the top of my head, so could be marginally wrong). Don't understand what Archie's plan was after last season - my only thought is that two other defensive targets to replace the leavers were missed. If so, that's a shame because he got so much right in signing up a core and effective squad for this season and next. We all hope this doesn't prove to be fatal........... Dumbuya's injury meant we needed to spend budget on a right back as elliott wasnt fit. Cerny's injury has seen us spend money on 2 new goalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I think all Thistle fans are aware that we have possibly the lowest budget in the League. From Archie's comments at the time, Seabourne & Frans were given premium contracts when they first signed but he didn't think these were justified when the contracts were up for renewal. That seems entirely sensible management - why should Frans be paid extra when he wasn't first choice? However, it isn't good management to have only two central defenders - one unproven & already unpopular and the other an inexperienced youngster. Injuries or suspensions are almost inevitable...and Barton is not a tackler or despite his height particularly strong in the air. Not good use of our budget...and the same applies to our two strikers. Thanks for a considered post as always W63. Whatever the contract details - and I accept that 99.9% of us won't know them - it seems clear with the benefit of hindsight that at least one of Frans an Seaborne plus Miller should have been kept on. It also begs the questions of how Hamilton could afford to sign Seaborne and we could not? Personal or budgetary issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Dumbuya's injury meant we needed to spend budget on a right back as elliott wasnt fit. Cerny's injury has seen us spend money on 2 new goalies. PT, Freddy - who wanted to stay - was let go ever before either of these things became an issue, though. Anyway, had the impression that Archie didn't fancy Freddy last season for some reason................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I know he wanted more 1st team football, but better efforts should have been made to keep Gary Miller. He is the type of guy that a low budget club like ourselves desperately need. Could play right back, centre half and midfield. Not brilliant but usually very steady player, who played exceptionally well in central defence when called on last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) PT, Freddy - who wanted to stay - was let go ever before either of these things became an issue, though. Anyway, had the impression that Archie didn't fancy Freddy last season for some reason................. I know the timeline. But he was offered a contract that the club deemed to be his worth. The 3 additional players probably had an effect on replacing the players who chose not to accept the renewed terms. Edited October 16, 2016 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I know the timeline. But he was offered a contract that the club deemed to be his worth. The 3 additional players probably had an effect on replacing the players who chose not to accept the renewed terms. OK - sounds as though know more detail about contractual issues than most of us on here. Thanks for sharing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I know he wanted more 1st team football, but better efforts should have been made to keep Gary Miller. He is the type of guy that a low budget club like ourselves desperately need. Could play right back, centre half and midfield. Not brilliant but usually very steady player, who played exceptionally well in central defence when called on last season. Again though, we had Dumbuya with Elliott coming back from injury. Miller would have been a third right back, that as you say, wanted forst team football. So not really an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 OK - sounds as though know more detail about contractual issues than most of us on here. Thanks for sharing!! I genuinly dont think i do. I barely know anyone on here as they hide behind anonimity, so ive no idea who they are and what they know. What are you taking from my post, incidentally? We offered frans less than his first contract. He wanted to stay. But obviously not enough, to stay on the terms being offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Interesting that you only quoted 1 line of my comment, does that mean the other 99% of my comment was spot on? As for the line you have quoted, so you actually think Chris been great, outstanding, or mesmerising since the beginning of the season? He has made mistakes like others , but gets it easy from the fans, that was my point. As said earlier by someone, dools missed a chance the same as azees did but dools was clapped and encouraged to keep going, where as azees was slaughtered. And last but not least, my ire is with the whole team, not individual players that always seen to be the easy targets. azeez missed a chance against killie then 3 against Motherwell all that were easier than doolans 1 yesterday. Where has azeez been slaughtered? People say he should have Done better with his chances is that not an observation or really slaughter? Doolan could have done better as well yep but I still think azeez had easier chances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thanks for a considered post as always W63. Whatever the contract details - and I accept that 99.9% of us won't know them - it seems clear with the benefit of hindsight that at least one of Frans an Seaborne plus Miller should have been kept on. It also begs the questions of how Hamilton could afford to sign Seaborne and we could not? Personal or budgetary issues? I don't have any insider contacts - my only source of knowledge is what the club has disclosed. Archie doesn't give much away but he did make it clear that Seabourne & Frans were offered new contracts with the clear implication that they were not as generous as the enhanced contracts they were given when they first signed. Seabourne & Frans were both quoted as saying they would like to stay if the terms were right but obviously got better offers elsewhere. Seabourne signed up to play in India but didn't settle there - he has ended up with Hamilton but I have no idea if their offer was better than the contract we had offered. He seems to have another of his late injury call offs yesterday. Miller was offered a contract but wanted first team football - he was a good squad player but he would not have been in our side if Dumbuya had been fit. I don't think the management team can be particularly blamed for these three players moving on. I did make the point at the time that it was a similar situation to Dowie & Stephen Craig not being offered new contracts after making contributions to our promotion...unfortunately their replacements Gabriel Piccolo & John Baird were not good enough and upgrades with Lee Mair & Lyle Taylor did not arrive until the January Window. Devine doesn't look to me like an upgrade and Barton doesn't look like a central defender though we haven't seen him play there yet. There is a clear problem that should have been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I don't know anything about Accies finances but they were panicked into signing a replacement for Tena after he got crocked. They may well have been forced into going over budget, Fairly sure Seaborne wasn't on their plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Think most of us know that, but it's no excuse to overload the squad with midfielders while totally neglecting the central defence and striking positions. That is basic management. How on earth can you go through half a season with absolutely no centre back or striker cover. We let Nesbit and Pogba go and brought no one in except another defensive midfielder. We let Miller, Seaborne and Frans go and brought in Danny Devine. Not good enough I am afraid. Pretty sure Archie knows himself that he has arsed up the close season Good centre backs and good strikers tend to cost more than plentiful midfielders, I don't think it's any secret that we missed out on players as we couldn't pay enough., so we've ended up with the current squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Good centre backs and good strikers tend to cost more than plentiful midfielders, I don't think it's any secret that we missed out on players as we couldn't pay enough., so we've ended up with the current squad. That's not the point. We have absolutely no cover in central defence or the striking positions. No problems if the defence is watertight, doesn't pick up injuries or bookings or the strikers are banging in goals and not picking up injuries or bookings. Sadly that is not the nature of football. The attack doesn't bother me as much as the defence as we are capable of scoring goals, but to leave the club with only two centre backs, one of whom has been dreadful and the other who is still learning his trade, is a shocking error in judgement from Archie and one we could pay a hefty price for! The facts are Devine should have been dropped weeks ago but we have absolutely no one to take his place. Where would we turn to if Devine and Lindsay both got serious injuries and both were out for months? I am an Archie man but I cant see how anyone can defend him regarding this. Edited October 17, 2016 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas clark Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 We would be forced to play development squad players. There would be no obvious option. What happened to the chap Penrice, who seemed able enough at full back and could actually cross a ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 In the last 3 years I have crossed swords with many on here about my backing of Archie (most of whom have disappeared) but I always said that he is not immune to criticism from me and I ain't gonna sit back and not criticise him for the shambles of the current squad. Facts are it could cost us our place in the league. We have a central defence that is leaking goals in every game, bar ICT, is bereft of any confidence and that makes you close your eyes every time the opposition launch a ball into the box. We have no cover for that position. Maybe a couple of clean sheets might solve that, but we appear a million miles away from achieving a clean sheet. We have two strikers that haven't scored a goal between them in the league and again we have no back up. The manager cannot be defended on these two points. Just hope we aren't cut adrift at the end of December and hopefully he can balance the squad better and give us a fighting chance. If he can't, we will be in the championship next season I think he can be defended a bit. Just before the season started, Dumbaya injured himself and we had to go for Gordon as a replacement. Cerny didn't recover from his injury and we have had to bring in 2 temporary keepers as cover. We also had the budget issue around the no of Rangers games at Firhill.. All of theses things affected how much money we had to spend on central defence. I don't believe Devine was meant to be 1st choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 iirc nearing the end of last season in one of his match previews archie had said that dumbaya would be having an operation in the close season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I think he can be defended a bit. Just before the season started, Dumbaya injured himself and we had to go for Gordon as a replacement. Cerny didn't recover from his injury and we have had to bring in 2 temporary keepers as cover. We also had the budget issue around the no of Rangers games at Firhill.. All of theses things affected how much money we had to spend on central defence. I don't believe Devine was meant to be 1st choice. Why then did we pay a fee and give a 3 year contract on deadline day to a defensive midfield player when it was patently obvious that we had no cover at centre half?? In all the years I have been going to Firhill I don't ever recall us ever having only 2 central defenders. As for the goalies, Crawford looked OK in the games I saw him play in, why was he freed with the doubts surrounding both Cerny and Scully regarding injuries. He was obviously on buttons, but would have been a capable back up, rather that bring Stuckman in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 We would be forced to play development squad players. There would be no obvious option. What happened to the chap Penrice, who seemed able enough at full back and could actually cross a ball? Penrice is in the development squad and is a very promising prospect, however with Elliot back we have cover for Callum Booth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnyjag Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Interesting to note that as we all squabble about our defence, that out with the top 5 we have lost the least goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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