javeajag Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, AndyMac said: If it's not the Weirs, who calls the shots at Thistle? Who is charge? Where does the buck stop? The Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, allyo said: I don't understand the view that you don't blame Caldwell, you blame the incompetence of the person who appointed him. On that basis why not extend it to not blaming Jacqui Low, but blaming the Weirs who put her in place? And blame Camelot for them winning their millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Dark Passenger said: Yup. Pish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Semi Nurainen said: A neutral at yesterday's game would probably have said that the result was never in doubt and on another day with chances taken, it could have been 7-0. We feel different for obvious reasons. There was nevertheless a horrible sticky spell following their goal where we suddenly started defending 10 yards deeper and looked hesitant and very fragile. A decent Championship side would have punished us, but overall it was amore confident and competent performance than I've seen under Caldo. If he can keep it up next week he'll have us eating our words. I'd rather eat my words than suffer relegation again . It's not so much that I couldn't stand a season in League 1, more that I hate the thought of the Bunner led red lichties replacing us! Is there ever a game when the opposition doesn’t have a spell of dominance. Watching the Celtic vs Airdie highlights, Airdrie had a great chance to equalise. In the end it was a comfortable win for us yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Is there ever a game when the opposition doesn’t have a spell of dominance. Watching the Celtic vs Airdie highlights, Airdrie had a great chance to equalise. In the end it was a comfortable win for us yesterday Who Celtic or Jags? Just kidding ya Lenziejag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, AndyMac said: If it's not the Weirs, who calls the shots at Thistle? Who is charge? Where does the buck stop? My point was more the opposite. That you can't keep pushing it up the chain. If the team is underperforming then primarily it is the team who have to take responsibility, and then the manager who selects it and sets it up. Blame the chairman for a lot of the other guff around the club, and yes, for what looks a poor appointment. But don't use that as an excuse to take heat off the people who are responsible for winning football matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, javeajag said: The Board Who appoints "The Board"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, allyo said: My point was more the opposite. That you can't keep pushing it up the chain. If the team is underperforming then primarily it is the team who have to take responsibility, and then the manager who selects it and sets it up. Blame the chairman for a lot of the other guff around the club, and yes, for what looks a poor appointment. But don't use that as an excuse to take heat off the people who are responsible for winning football matches. That's where we differ Allyo. I don't blame Gary Caldwell at all. I blame the people who hired him. They should have known better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, AndyMac said: Who appoints "The Board"? AndyMac, if you keep going back (rather liked the rhyme there), it becomes a question of whether you believe in a Creator God or the Big Bang theory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, AndyMac said: Who appoints "The Board"? The Board in non football companies Boards are made up of shareholding groups, experts and independents...it can be different for private companies Colin weir is on the board so he represents his interests the board appoint members to the board and the board elect a chairman ....these decisions may be discussed with shareholders I’m not sure but I think one of our issues is that a large percentage of the shareholders are not really involved in the club ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Colin Weir is not on the Board. He is represented by his earthly presence, Jacqui Low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 35 minutes ago, partickthedog said: AndyMac, if you keep going back (rather liked the rhyme there), it becomes a question of whether you believe in a Creator God or the Big Bang theory. Not really, because you can have a board of Directors which include the Chairman, Chief Executive, Secretary etc, who don't own any of the club. They can be appointed, they may be superficially in charge of the club, but they don't ultimately call the shots, they are mere figure heads. I just want to find out, who or whom is actually in charge. Who owns Thistle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 The biggest PTFC shareholder is the PTFC Trust i.e.the fans. They (we) own over 19% of the shares, followed by the Weirs who between them own 10%. The Jags Trust own over 5%, so between the two fans based trusts a total of over 25% of PTFC is owned - a significant %. I have asked Pauline Graham who chairs the Trust to aks the Board two questions: How many PTFC shares do each of the 5 directors own, and what are the impediments stopping the PTFC Trust getting a seat on the Board. Pauline Graham has been very helpful in answering a number of questions I have asked, so I should hear from her shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, javeajag said: The Board in non football companies Boards are made up of shareholding groups, experts and independents...it can be different for private companies Colin weir is on the board so he represents his interests the board appoint members to the board and the board elect a chairman ....these decisions may be discussed with shareholders I’m not sure but I think one of our issues is that a large percentage of the shareholders are not really involved in the club ? Thanks for your reply Javeajag. From what I understand, although I may be wrong. Propco are Thistle minded investors, who lent the club £1 million pounds and have security over the main stand and the bing and receive £100,000 per year for this loan. I don't know if this arrangement is still in place? The Weirs bankroll the youth academy and cleared £700, 000 worth of clubs outstanding debt, although I believe the club is still in hoc to Propco for £1 million. The Weirs are building a training ground off their own backs, which they will then rent to the club at a favourable rate. Propco, are secure creditors of the club owning half of Firhill. Who own the other half of Firhill? How much of anything do the Weirs own any of the club? Other than that I honestly haven't got a clue who actually owns what, or how much and what control and influence they wield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, eljaggo said: The biggest PTFC shareholder is the PTFC Trust i.e.the fans. They (we) own over 19% of the shares, followed by the Weirs who between them own 10%. The Jags Trust own over 5%, so between the two fans based trusts a total of over 25% of PTFC is owned - a significant %. I have asked Pauline Graham who chairs the Trust to aks the Board two questions: How many PTFC shares do each of the 5 directors own, and what are the impediments stopping the PTFC Trust getting a seat on the Board. Pauline Graham has been very helpful in answering a number of questions I have asked, so I should hear from her shortly. Thanks Eljaggo, so the fans own 25% and the Weirs 10%. This just leaves the other 65% of shares/ownership to account for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 There is a myriad of other shareholders, AndyMac. You can get their names and shareholding online at Companies House. The data is about 3 years old now hence my request to Pauline Graham. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, AndyMac said: Thanks for your reply Javeajag. From what I understand, although I may be wrong. Propco are Thistle minded investors, who lent the club £1 million pounds and have security over the main stand and the bing and receive £100,000 per year for this loan. I don't know if this arrangement is still in place? The Weirs bankroll the youth academy and cleared £700, 000 worth of clubs outstanding debt, although I believe the club is still in hoc to Propco for £1 million. The Weirs are building a training ground off their own backs, which they will then rent to the club at a favourable rate. Propco, are secure creditors of the club owning half of Firhill. Who own the other half of Firhill? How much of anything do the Weirs own any of the club? Other than that I honestly haven't got a clue who actually owns what, or how much and what control and influence they wield. If you have a look at the link attached the confirmation statement shows who has shares and how many. The accounts will tell you (right at the end) shares are held by various people and no one person can exercise control. With regard to PropCo I keep reading that the club pays between £50,000 to £100,000 per year for this and I don't know where this came from. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005417/filing-history Edited January 20, 2019 by Fawlty Towers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, AndyMac said: Let's put it this way, If the Weirs appointed Jacqui Low as Chairman and Gerry Britton as Chief Executive. Perhaps it was the Weirs that insisted on Gary Caldwell as manager acting through Jacqui Low? Who knows? What is for sure; is that someone appointed Gary Caldwell, Gerry Britton and Jacqui Low. If these appointments were made by the Weirs and they turn out to be successful, then the Weirs will deserve much credit. For good or ill someone somewhere has to take ultimate responsibility for the running of the club. The buck has to stop somewhere. The buck stops with the Chairman - The Board & the CEO - normally as a unit - although the Chairman & the CEO are the public faces they cannot act without support of the Board as a whole - especially as the Board are not shareholders ( token amount fir one Director ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 48 minutes ago, eljaggo said: There is a myriad of other shareholders, AndyMac. You can get their names and shareholding online at Companies House. The data is about 3 years old now hence my request to Pauline Graham. Surely any trading entity has to update its data annualy at Companies House? I know I have to, pssinbly an exemption for football clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: Is there ever a game when the opposition doesn’t have a spell of dominance. Watching the Celtic vs Airdie highlights, Airdrie had a great chance to equalise. In the end it was a comfortable win for us yesterday My point entirely, hence '...overall it was amore confident and competent performance than I've seen under Caldo.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: Surely any trading entity has to update its data annualy at Companies House? I know I have to, pssinbly an exemption for football clubs? They update the accounts annually SN, but I don't know the requirements for the share register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, eljaggo said: The biggest PTFC shareholder is the PTFC Trust i.e.the fans. They (we) own over 19% of the shares, followed by the Weirs who between them own 10%. The Jags Trust own over 5%, so between the two fans based trusts a total of over 25% of PTFC is owned - a significant %. I have asked Pauline Graham who chairs the Trust to aks the Board two questions: How many PTFC shares do each of the 5 directors own, and what are the impediments stopping the PTFC Trust getting a seat on the Board. Pauline Graham has been very helpful in answering a number of questions I have asked, so I should hear from her shortly. Looking forward to hearing the responses to those questions, eljaggo. Do share them when you get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said: If you have a look at the link attached the confirmation statement shows who has shares and how many. The accounts will tell you (right at the end) shares are held by various people and no one person can exercise control. With regard to PropCo I keep reading that the club pays between £50,000 to £100,000 per year for this and I don't know where this came from. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005417/filing-history Thanks FT, I've had a look at the long list of shareholders, some larger than others, none with overall control. Do you know if the Board gets elected by the Shareholders? Or do they just appoint each other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: The buck stops with the Chairman - The Board & the CEO - normally as a unit - although the Chairman & the CEO are the public faces they cannot act without support of the Board as a whole - especially as the Board are not shareholders ( token amount fir one Director ) Jordanhill Jag, do you know who the board are accountable to? Is there a mechanism in place for the clubs shareholders to call an extraordinary meeting, to challenge or remove the officers of the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, AndyMac said: Jordanhill Jag, do you know who the board are accountable to? Is there a mechanism in place for the clubs shareholders to call an extraordinary meeting, to challenge or remove the officers of the board? This is all a matter of Company Law. The short answer is “yes”, but if you are truly interested in the detail, then do a bit of Google research on shareholder rights under the Companies Act. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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