Cardle...Any reason why he is not getting 90?

[topcat]

Its the talk of the steamy but why oh why isn't this lad on from the start?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The reason will be predominately down to the narrow formation. Yesterday being a good example as when he came on it coincided with us ditching the 3-5-2. Just why we started a home game on a wide park against Alloa with three centrebacks is anyone's guess. Factor in Cardle looking the part just about anytime he's on the park and it makes that starting set up even more bizarre.

Ironically, tho' a wide player, Joe doesn't add that much width as his default position is cutting inside from the left. 

[Guest]

I know this is pure nonsense but I would have loved to see cardle in the same team as ATS and o'Donnell.  We've never really managed to replace them. Booth was nearly there and had high Hope's for dumbya but it wasn't to be.

[Dick Dastardly]

Because the manager doesn’t think he is as good a starter as the fans believe

[dl1971]

He was injured for a fair bit too. Plus the team have been getting results since January so more difficult to get back in? That said I'd deffo play him from the start at home games.

[jlsarmy]

Joe Cardle quoted  in the newspaper as saying he’s warming the bench due to formation

If we’re looking at Caldwell building an exciting attacking team ,we’re going to have a long wait .

[sandy]

2 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

I know this is pure nonsense but I would have loved to see cardle in the same team as ATS and o'Donnell.  We've never really managed to replace them. Booth was nearly there and had high Hope's for dumbya but it wasn't to be.

I agree there, ATS and SOD were exciting players - alongside Erskine too.

[dl1971]

1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Joe Cardle quoted  in the newspaper as saying he’s warming the bench due to formation

If we’re looking at Caldwell building an exciting attacking team ,we’re going to have a long wait .

I've seen thistle play exciting football at times under Caldwell. Maybe not the vintage stuff that we played when Archie took us back to the premier, but that doesn't come about too often. Who knows what next season may bring.....if he's still in charge. It's funny how the opinion of Cardle  has changed from when he first was signed to replace erskine.....

[lady-isobel-barnett]

15 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

It's funny how the opinion of Cardle  has changed from when he first was signed to replace erskine.....

Never actually thought of Joe as Erskine's replacement. More like Harkins since both play central. Anyway Erskine evidently left as Caldwell couldn't guarantee him a start so I suppose Cardle is a replacement in a manner as he can't get a start either.

[sandy]

1 hour ago, dl1971 said:

I've seen thistle play exciting football at times under Caldwell. 

Right...where & when? Did it get us the results we needed to challenge for promotion? 

[That 1 jags fan]

I think part of the reason he left Dunfermline was because Johnston like Caldwell played a 3-5-2 and Cardle didn’t fit. He also had a bad injury the season before I think.

[dl1971]

9 hours ago, sandy said:

Right...where & when? Did it get us the results we needed to challenge for promotion? 

You are of course now broadening the goalposts. Your original post merely mentioned exciting football. I'd argue we played some great stuff against alloa second half. Parts of the game when we beat Morton 3 nil. The first half against Ross county ( yes I know we got trounced second half ). The win against Dundee United we played well first half. I could go on. Where you may have an argument is that we haven't produced the full 90 mins any game I've been at . See what I did there sandy...a balanced perspective. It makes supporting thistle so much easier lmao.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

You are of course now broadening the goalposts. Your original post merely mentioned exciting football. I'd argue we played some great stuff against alloa second half. Parts of the game when we beat Morton 3 nil. The first half against Ross county ( yes I know we got trounced second half ). The win against Dundee United we played well first half. I could go on. Where you may have an argument is that we haven't produced the full 90 mins any game I've been at . See what I did there sandy...a balanced perspective. It makes supporting thistle so much easier lmao.

Not many teams, and I'd suggest none at our level, can maintain exciting football for 90 minutes. The excitement comes sporadically, it's when you don't have the ball that tests teams and under Caldwell we've not managed that. I'd submit that at times during matches in such games as you've highlighted 1971, we have been, at times during those games, much improved but I firmly believe, and i was at the games bar v Morton, that you mention, and i would NEVER suggest we played "great stuff", sorry. With the greatest respect, that's p1sh and is one of the reasons we are where we are.

Way too many people at the club and responsible for the team are being enabled by supporters who accept sporadic periods of good play during a game as being good enough. Thats just simply not good enough.

Until Caldwell creates a mentality in the team that plays for 90 minutes, both when they have the ball and don't have the ball we will continue to suffer this mediocrity with a small dose of "great play" thrown in as a luxury ingredient. We needed a new manager to come in and grab this club and players by the balls just like lambie did x 3. We live in hope.

[dl1971]

1 hour ago, Thistleberight said:

Not many teams, and I'd suggest none at our level, can maintain exciting football for 90 minutes. The excitement comes sporadically, it's when you don't have the ball that tests teams and under Caldwell we've not managed that. I'd submit that at times during matches in such games as you've highlighted 1971, we have been, at times during those games, much improved but I firmly believe, and i was at the games bar v Morton, that you mention, and i would NEVER suggest we played "great stuff", sorry. With the greatest respect, that's p1sh and is one of the reasons we are where we are.

Way too many people at the club and responsible for the team are being enabled by supporters who accept sporadic periods of good play during a game as being good enough. Thats just simply not good enough.

Until Caldwell creates a mentality in the team that plays for 90 minutes, both when they have the ball and don't have the ball we will continue to suffer this mediocrity with a small dose of "great play" thrown in as a luxury ingredient. We needed a new manager to come in and grab this club and players by the balls just like lambie did x 3. We live in hope.

I only answered the question that was put to me. You will have your view and I have mine. Probably both views are respective p#sh. We will be very lucky indeed if we inherit another Lambie or indeed someone who gets us into the top 6. I'm merely hoping that we stay up this year and push on next year. We may have a better idea on that at 9.45 pm tonight. 

[ARu-Strathbungo]

You are of course now broadening the goalposts. Your original post merely mentioned exciting football. I'd argue we played some great stuff against Alloa second half. Parts of the game when we beat Morton 3 nil. The first half against Ross county ( yes I know we got trounced second half ). The win against Dundee United we played well first half. I could go on. Where you may have an argument is that we haven't produced the full 90 mins any game I've been at . See what I did there sandy...a balanced perspective. It makes supporting thistle so much easier lmao.

Not many teams, and I'd suggest none at our level, can maintain exciting football for 90 minutes. The excitement comes sporadically, it's when you don't have the ball that tests teams and under Caldwell we've not managed that. I'd submit that at times during matches in such games as you've highlighted 1971, we have been, at times during those games, much improved but I firmly believe, and I was at the games bar v Morton, that you mention, and I would NEVER suggest we played "great stuff", sorry. With the greatest respect, that's p1sh and is one of the reasons we are where we are.

Way too many people at the club and responsible for the team are being enabled by supporters who accept sporadic periods of good play during a game as being good enough. That's just simply not good enough.

Until Caldwell creates a mentality in the team that plays for 90 minutes, both when they have the ball and don't have the ball we will continue to suffer this mediocrity with a small dose of "great play" thrown in as a luxury ingredient. We needed a new manager to come in and grab this club and players by the balls just like Lambie did x 3. We live in hope.

Apologies to dl1971 and TBR for using their posts:-

The two posts above [colour coded for ease of ID] are about correct on the problems we have had in the last 24 months. PTFC are a team that occasionally has periods of competence and, dare I say it, class on the football field. Unfortunately these periods when we are in complete control rarely last more than 10 to 15 minutes and are usually followed by longer periods of nerves and incompetence. What I would like to see on the field is a much tougher Thistle, that if and when we are under a sustained attack,  we play with some competence and skill in defending our goal.

It's been shown in the Championship this season that every team has the skill to have the upper hand for periods of the game, from a Thistle perspective I would like us to be able to play deep when required and have the skills to fire accurate the accurate outball, panic defending should not be part of our game.

GC when he came to the club, Jackie Low told us:-  "Put simply, he plans to build a strong defence that allows us to then push forward and play attacking football.  

He needs to take the words and make them actions.

I think Caldwell's team is starting to play better as time goes on, it might be too little too late but a good result tonight against Ayr will give us an excellence chance of survival in this league and possibly we will see a better Thistle next season?

Final point …. has GC fulfilled the remit of what he was hired in to do?  and if that answer is no, is Championship survival this season a good enough performance for the BoD?

[West of Scotland]

2 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Way too many people at the club and responsible for the team are being enabled by supporters who accept sporadic periods of good play during a game as being good enough. Thats just simply not good enough.

Yet more "it's the fans fault" pish rhetoric spouted here.

What do you want the fans to do? Boo the players off the park if they don't reach a specific standard, regardless of the result?

Maybe you can print up some flashcards to hand out detailing the percentage of "good play" the team has to meet each game in order to earn our "support".

You need you to set up a set of standards for how you expect your fellow fans to meet your lofty criteria instead of just bashing away on your keyboard.

I fully expect to heat you giving the Jackie Husband stand laldy on Saturday when we have the temerity to applaud the team.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

You are of course now broadening the goalposts. Your original post merely mentioned exciting football. I'd argue we played some great stuff against Alloa second half. Parts of the game when we beat Morton 3 nil. The first half against Ross county ( yes I know we got trounced second half ). The win against Dundee United we played well first half. I could go on. Where you may have an argument is that we haven't produced the full 90 mins any game I've been at . See what I did there sandy...a balanced perspective. It makes supporting thistle so much easier lmao.

Not many teams, and I'd suggest none at our level, can maintain exciting football for 90 minutes. The excitement comes sporadically, it's when you don't have the ball that tests teams and under Caldwell we've not managed that. I'd submit that at times during matches in such games as you've highlighted 1971, we have been, at times during those games, much improved but I firmly believe, and I was at the games bar v Morton, that you mention, and I would NEVER suggest we played "great stuff", sorry. With the greatest respect, that's p1sh and is one of the reasons we are where we are.

Way too many people at the club and responsible for the team are being enabled by supporters who accept sporadic periods of good play during a game as being good enough. That's just simply not good enough.

Until Caldwell creates a mentality in the team that plays for 90 minutes, both when they have the ball and don't have the ball we will continue to suffer this mediocrity with a small dose of "great play" thrown in as a luxury ingredient. We needed a new manager to come in and grab this club and players by the balls just like Lambie did x 3. We live in hope.

Apologies to dl1971 and TBR for using their posts:-

The two posts above [colour coded for ease of ID] are about correct on the problems we have had in the last 24 months. PTFC are a team that occasionally has periods of competence and, dare I say it, class on the football field. Unfortunately these periods when we are in complete control rarely last more than 10 to 15 minutes and are usually followed by longer periods of nerves and incompetence. What I would like to see on the field is a much tougher Thistle, that if and when we are under a sustained attack,  we play with some competence and skill in defending our goal.

It's been shown in the Championship this season that every team has the skill to have the upper hand for periods of the game, from a Thistle perspective I would like us to be able to play deep when required and have the skills to fire accurate the accurate outball, panic defending should not be part of our game.

GC when he came to the club, Jackie Low told us:-  "Put simply, he plans to build a strong defence that allows us to then push forward and play attacking football.  

He needs to take the words and make them actions.

I think Caldwell's team is starting to play better as time goes on, it might be too little too late but a good result tonight against Ayr will give us an excellence chance of survival in this league and possibly we will see a better Thistle next season?

Final point …. has GC fulfilled the remit of what he was hired in to do?  and if that answer is no, is Championship survival this season a good enough performance for the BoD?

Agree with everything you have posted ARU, after the start we had and even before Archie left and Caldwell was appointed, I would have been happy with avoiding relegation as before the season even started I and many others were counselling caution. Given what happened to st Mirren when they went down and indeed what had happened to us before.

That said, as you point out, the board, chair and Caldwell himself predicted promotion. They have failed. The question is for the board, chair, manager and us, is there sufficient signs from Caldwell that he is capable of getting us promoted. Does he deserve to have another season, is there enough signs of improvement?

For me, no. But I don't count.

If he keeps us up, say thanks and have a nice life, bye bye now. 

I do however think if he keeps us up he will be here next season.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, West of Scotland said:

Yet more "it's the fans fault" pish rhetoric spouted here.

What do you want the fans to do? Boo the players off the park if they don't reach a specific standard, regardless of the result?

Maybe you can print up some flashcards to hand out detailing the percentage of "good play" the team has to meet each game in order to earn our "support".

You need you to set up a set of standards for how you expect your fellow fans to meet your lofty criteria instead of just bashing away on your keyboard.

I fully expect to heat you giving the Jackie Husband stand laldy on Saturday when we have the temerity to applaud the team.

Ahha, over reaction alert.

I'm not blaming the fans, never posted that. What you have quoted is not the full post, I wonder why.

Thank you for your input West, bit of an over reaction and tou have clearly misunderstood the post. The blame lies squarely with the club. Board, manager, coaches, players. I simply made the point that many posters and fans I have had conversations with are doing a good impression if being apologists. That's all. I've not nor will I ever engage in Orwellian discourse, and will adhere to voltaire.

So you are way off the mark with your supposition, do keep up and stop making sh1t up, and attributing meaningless allegations about what I have not said or done.

All I ask of my fellow fans is keep supporting the team, don't be blind to what is going on at the club. Simples.......not you, the facts.

 

[ARu-Strathbungo]

2 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Agree with everything you have posted ARU, after the start we had and even before Archie left and Caldwell was appointed, I would have been happy with avoiding relegation as before the season even started I and many others were counselling caution. Given what happened to st Mirren when they went down and indeed what had happened to us before.

That said, as you point out, the board, chair and Caldwell himself predicted promotion. They have failed. The question is for the board, chair, manager and us, is there sufficient signs from Caldwell that he is capable of getting us promoted. Does he deserve to have another season, is there enough signs of improvement?

For me, no. But I don't count.

If he keeps us up, say thanks and have a nice life, bye bye now. 

I do however think if he keeps us up he will be here next season.

I think if PTFC get enough points to gain 8th place there will be mild celebrations within the walls of that boardroom. Survival would be some sort of vindication for them as they would be able to point out the theoretical league position on games played since Xmas gives us a league position of 4th or 5th. I don't think a manager could be fired on the basis of those statistics.

Taking the long view, is GC the manager who will set-up a well run youth academy and take us to a stage where we can get to some sort of cup final, promoted to the SPL or up to top 6 status again? …… Although I would love for all of that to happen, I just don't see it.  IMO, GC is not a natural as a manager or coach, he has to work hard to do the job he is doing at PTFC, he appears [and again this is only my opinion] to over complicate his tactics and tries to 'over-coach'.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

I think if PTFC get enough points to gain 8th place there will be mild celebrations within the walls of that boardroom. Survival would be some sort of vindication for them as they would be able to point out the theoretical league position on games played since Xmas gives us a league position of 4th or 5th. I don't think a manager could be fired on the basis of those statistics.

Taking the long view, is GC the manager who will set-up a well run youth academy and take us to a stage where we can get to some sort of cup final, promoted to the SPL or up to top 6 status again? …… Although I would love for all of that to happen, I just don't see it.  IMO, GC is not a natural as a manager or coach, he has to work hard to do the job he is doing at PTFC, he appears [and again this is only my opinion] to over complicate his tactics and tries to 'over-coach'.

 

I couldn't agree more. Especially the over coaching. If we survive he'll probably save his job, if he wants it. Like you and others, were I in power I'd let him go. But we aren't. So by the time I've spent 2 grumpy months making do with reading old programmes and listening to old football pod casts, and watched the womens world cup I'll be right up for next season no matter what league no matter what manager. But by the end of August.........

Edited April 23, 2019 by Guest
Shooking spulling

[Weebaw1]

4 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Ahha, over reaction alert.

I'm not blaming the fans, never posted that. What you have quoted is not the full post, I wonder why.

Thank you for your input West, bit of an over reaction and tou have clearly misunderstood the post. The blame lies squarely with the club. Board, manager, coaches, players. I simply made the point that many posters and fans I have had conversations with are doing a good impression if being apologists. That's all. I've not nor will I ever engage in Orwellian discourse, and will adhere to voltaire.

So you are way off the mark with your supposition, do keep up and stop making sh1t up, and attributing meaningless allegations about what I have not said or done.

All I ask of my fellow fans is keep supporting the team, don't be blind to what is going on at the club. Simples.......not you, the facts.

 

The wilful editing of other people’s posts should be verboten, or at least accepted as ungentlemanly conduct. It is cowardly and distorts the original poster’s views.

 

[Weebaw1]

An interesting point has been raised about being unable to perform for 90 minutes at a good level.

Clearly the formation on Saturday was wrong from the start. Caldwell should have subbed McMillan after10 and introduced Cardle. But a problem could be that we are a very poor passing team. Our POTY has worked hard since New Year and probably deserves the award. But he’ll beat 2 men then pass the ball away. 

Slater and Gordon passed the ball to an Alloa player regularly. Banzo’s slightly better. So we find it difficult to retain possession, especially when we should be seeing a game out.

An afterthought from Saturday’s 1st half. I don’t think McGinty’s sojourns were pre planned. As there was absolutely no movement the only tactic for him was to attack through the middle. Alloa hadn’t planned for that! He stopped it after the 4th venture as I suspect someone had a wee word in his ear. But Slater was covering well for him once he realised what he was up to.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Weebaw1 said:

An interesting point has been raised about being unable to perform for 90 minutes at a good level.

Clearly the formation on Saturday was wrong from the start. Caldwell should have subbed McMillan after10 and introduced Cardle. But a problem could be that we are a very poor passing team. Our POTY has worked hard since New Year and probably deserves the award. But he’ll beat 2 men then pass the ball away. 

Slater and Gordon passed the ball to an Alloa player regularly. Banzo’s slightly better. So we find it difficult to retain possession, especially when we should be seeing a game out.

An afterthought from Saturday’s 1st half. I don’t think McGinty’s sojourns were pre planned. As there was absolutely no movement the only tactic for him was to attack through the middle. Alloa hadn’t planned for that! He stopped it after the 4th venture as I suspect someone had a wee word in his ear. But Slater was covering well for him once he realised what he was up to.

Ran our of likes, very much agree with the McGinty comments. That's the best I've seen him play, and he really was marauding wasn't he.

[dl1971]

Here's a thought. It's not all down to the manager to change tactics. The players can do it. That's what Mcginty did by having the balls to go forward. Liverpool did this at the weekend and scored as the players took responsibility for identifying a defensive flaw......klopp endorsed it. Collective responsibility.

[Jaggernaut]

9 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Ran our of likes, very much agree with the McGinty comments. That's the best I've seen him play, and he really was marauding wasn't he.

I seem to remember Alan Hansen being a bit of a marauder for us and later for Liverpool. It was great to watch.