New Owner

[jaf]

19 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Impossible I’m afraid.

‘Hamilton have the lowest budget of any club in Scotland’s top flight and their average home attendance is about 2,500.’

It was 2800 last season. So that’s wrong  

Budget isn’t turnover. So that’s wrong  

We aren’t in the top flight.  So that’s incomparable  

The substance of your point I get. You are just backing it up with utter horseshit arguments though.  

There are no available facts to support your assertion. It doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It means it’s the dreaded speculation you always call others out on.  It might even be informed speculation.  

I suppose to me there is one very simple question that is all that matters. At the time that Hamilton were defrauded all that cash, they survived. Fact. Could partick thistle have withstood that cash loss at that time? 

[jaf]

28 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Impossible I’m afraid.

‘Hamilton have the lowest budget of any club in Scotland’s top flight and their average home attendance is about 2,500.’

 

Its publicly published average attendance figures for last season  

Hamilton - 2829

us - 3043 

That’s the averages  

ticket prices -

hamilton 22

us 20 

Now I knows it’s imperfect due to kids pricing but if we assume the same ratio of concessions apply within both supports 

Hamilton 19 home games

us 18 home games 

Therefore from league ticket sales Hamilton will have generated around 100k more than us  

they will also have more tv money   They will also have higher prize money   They also secured a bigger sponsor deal than we have last season  

facts  the inconvenient enemy of any javeajag argument  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[javeajag]

11 minutes ago, jaf said:

It was 2800 last season. So that’s wrong  

Budget isn’t turnover. So that’s wrong  

We aren’t in the top flight.  So that’s incomparable  

The substance of your point I get. You are just backing it up with utter horseshit arguments though.  

There are no available facts to support your assertion. It doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It means it’s the dreaded speculation you always call others out on.  It might even be informed speculation.  

I suppose to me there is one very simple question that is all that matters. At the time that Hamilton were defrauded all that cash, they survived. Fact. Could partick thistle have withstood that cash loss at that time? 

Let’s agree to disagree

[javeajag]

16 minutes ago, jaf said:

It was 2800 last season. So that’s wrong  

Budget isn’t turnover. So that’s wrong  

We aren’t in the top flight.  So that’s incomparable  

The substance of your point I get. You are just backing it up with utter horseshit arguments though.  

There are no available facts to support your assertion. It doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It means it’s the dreaded speculation you always call others out on.  It might even be informed speculation.  

I suppose to me there is one very simple question that is all that matters. At the time that Hamilton were defrauded all that cash, they survived. Fact. Could partick thistle have withstood that cash loss at that time? 

We can cut through all this .....we are for sale would you pay more to buy us or Hamilton?

[javeajag]

Anyway positive case for the consortium?

[Firhillista]

37 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Anyway positive case for the consortium?

I haven't seen anyone putting forward any kind of reasonable case for Thistle being purchased by this consortium.

Indeed, those arguing most strongly against fan ownership now seem to be suggesting that the best way forward is for Beattie and the current board just to stay in place and for things to go back to the status quo.

I get the motivation - it's a bit like wishing Brexit would just disappear and we could all go back to 'normal'. Unfortunately, like Brexit, it's not going to happen.

We're where we are because of Beattie and the current board. They invited Colin Weir to invest money in the club; they stepped back and put Jacqui Low in charge; they then returned with the proposal to sell their shares to New City Finance.

What happens next is entirely up to David Beattie and the board, no matter how much is said on here and elsewhere.

He's asked us to trust him. We don't have much option. Let's hope he gets it right.

[Jordanhill Jag]

3 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Never mentioned Propco in my post , as not all shareholders are shareholders in both companies.

What I said / meant was that a shareholder in PTFC with roughly a 7% stake 10 years ago will double his money which from information I was given is roughly 200k

For some of the shareholders involved that was/is an unexpected windfall.

OK and the info  you were given is 100% accurate and the person who gave it to you had no agenda ? And how would they know the details of the  payout 

So Ronnie and Norman - both have 7% yet said they wont profit in any shape or form - were they lying ? 

The other urban myth that they are just there to cash in - if so why haven't they accepted the Weir offer as it means a number of Shareholders get there Propco Money back - cynically wrap it up with TEF being the future of the Club - take the cash - job done - so if its about the Cash - why haven't they taken the Weir /TEF offer ? 

As for them just being back to cash in - they have stated they are there as long as required - so far they have balanced the budget ( or are doing so ) convinced Ian MCcall to return   and answered every question asked of them in public Forums of the Q&A and AGM - unlike TFE  who you can only contact online 

So back to the Thistle Trust statement - it appeared on the same day of the TFE Bid - I will ask again was there any communication with TFE prior to the statement being issued 

Were all Thistle Trust Board Members consulted and in agreement with the statement 

Just a wee tip - you might want to re-evaluate the motive and accuracy of your "sources" Thistle Trust are supposed to be independent and not pick sides ? 

To date  TFE represent 263 Fans - Thistle Trust represent the others - you dont know there views I suggest  they look at TFE support levels as a measure of the support for "Fan Ownership" and the Trust starts representing the Support in full     

 

 

 

[Norgethistle]

1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

 

We're where we are because of Beattie and the current board. They invited Colin Weir to invest money in the club; they stepped back and put Jacqui Low in charge; they then returned with the proposal to sell their shares to New City Finance.

 

I don’t think they came back merely to sell their shares. They could have done that from afar.

The fact the board change was initiated by sheriff’s officers leads to maybe more happening. That and the budget being planned as being a £700k deficit shows things did not appear right.

Protecting their interests or protecting the club or both

[javeajag]

Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK and the info  you were given is 100% accurate and the person who gave it to you had no agenda ? And how would they know the details of the  payout 

So Ronnie and Norman - both have 7% yet said they wont profit in any shape or form - were they lying ? 

The other urban myth that they are just there to cash in - if so why haven't they accepted the Weir offer as it means a number of Shareholders get there Propco Money back - cynically wrap it up with TEF being the future of the Club - take the cash - job done - so if its about the Cash - why haven't they taken the Weir /TEF offer ? 

As for them just being back to cash in - they have stated they are there as long as required - so far they have balanced the budget ( or are doing so ) convinced Ian MCcall to return   and answered every question asked of them in public Forums of the Q&A and AGM - unlike TFE  who you can only contact online 

So back to the Thistle Trust statement - it appeared on the same day of the TFE Bid - I will ask again was there any communication with TFE prior to the statement being issued 

Were all Thistle Trust Board Members consulted and in agreement with the statement 

Just a wee tip - you might want to re-evaluate the motive and accuracy of your "sources" Thistle Trust are supposed to be independent and not pick sides ? 

To date  TFE represent 263 Fans - Thistle Trust represent the others - you dont know there views I suggest  they look at TFE support levels as a measure of the support for "Fan Ownership" and the Trust starts representing the Support in full     

 

 

 

Your involved and know the plans so just give us the positive case for whoever is buying us 

[Jordanhill Jag]

3 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Is that a good or bad investment do you think ? 

 

Ronnie and Norman both 7% shareholders stated they are making no profit on there Shares - so I would suggest the £200K is maybe not accurate 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

I don’t think they came back merely to sell their shares. They could have done that from afar.

The fact the board change was initiated by sheriff’s officers leads to maybe more happening. That and the budget being planned as being a £700k deficit shows things did not appear right.

Protecting their interests or protecting the club or both

Eh the shareholders who came back on the board sent the sheriff officers in !

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Your involved and know the plans so just give us the positive case for whoever is buying us 

So TFE and weir have made an offer then ?

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Your involved and know the plans so just give us the positive case for whoever is buying us 

Ok wow - Im involved and know the Plans - thats a big statement to make to you have anything to back that up ? 

You really do talk some nonsense 

[javeajag]

4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

To date  TFE represent 263 Fans - Thistle Trust represent the others - you dont know there views I suggest  they look at TFE support levels as a measure of the support for "Fan Ownership" and the Trust starts representing the Support in full     

If you represent the fans and care about us why not telling us WHY they want to sell to these guys 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok wow - Im involved and know the Plans - thats a big statement to make to you have anything to back that up ? 

You really do talk some nonsense 

That’s what they call a non denial denial 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

So TFE and weir have made an offer then ?

Im going by the TFE statements on what they are offering - if it was all about the money - why are the Shareholders not taking the deal ?  

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, javeajag said:

If you represent the fans and care about us why not telling us WHY they want to sell to these guys 

I dont represent the Fans - seriously wtf are you going on about - Thistle Trust do 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Im going by the TFE statements on what they are offering - if it was all about the money - why are the Shareholders not taking the deal ?  

Give us the positive case for the consortium 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

That’s what they call a non denial denial 

Mate you really need to stop drinking the Kool Aid this early in the Morning 

[javeajag]

6 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I dont represent the Fans - seriously wtf are you going on about - Thistle Trust do 

Well you said only 263 fans support TFE inferring most fans don’t support them ...fine tells us why we should support the consortium. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by javeajag

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Mate you really need to stop drinking the Kool Aid this early in the Morning 

Another avoidance answer

1. have you spoken to any shareholders about the deal

2. have they told you who us buying the club

3. have they told you their plans 
 

pretty simple to say no to all three 

[sandy]

44 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok wow - Im involved and know the Plans - thats a big statement to make to you have anything to back that up ? 

You really do talk some nonsense 

JJ, I do wonder if Javeajag has jumped the shark over this ownership stuff. I’ve seen some bizarre posts over the last few days...

[Jag]

My goodness. Every few days I skim through this thread to catch up and then I wonder why I did so. It gives me a sore head.

Javeajag - You need to let it go. The personal vendetta thing is tiring. It is not healthy to be so angry all the time.

Personally, I don't trust either of the proposals/offers on the table. Fan ownership, if done correctly, could be a great thing but TfE relying on Colin Weir is just not healthy. With regards to the consortium, I have the same questions as just about everybody Thistle fan. I just don't get what they want with us. 

Anyway, it's been a strange thread. @Lindau is back from the dead and I actually liked a couple of Sandy's posts. What's that all about?

[Dark Passenger]

Spin and counterspin. In the past two pages alone I've read a load of nonsense from folk presenting the case for both sides. God knows what I'd find if I was to look back any further. 

As Firhillista says, unless any of us are selling shares then the decision is outwith our control. I don't think anyone is doing 'their' cause any good here.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Dark Passenger

[javeajag]

5 minutes ago, sandy said:

JJ, I do wonder if Javeajag has jumped the shark over this ownership stuff. I’ve seen some bizarre posts over the last few days...

Easy to deny ... he hadn’t and won’t 

but easier  for  you To insult ... again