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Do we know if the 20% of the club gifted by Weir to the fans under guise of Partick Thistle Trust be added to the pot? Is the PT trust still there?

As for Jags Trust are they still about?

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2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Do we know if the 20% of the club gifted by Weir to the fans under guise of Partick Thistle Trust be added to the pot? Is the PT trust still there?

As for Jags Trust are they still about?

They seem to have taken on the role of transcribing the manager's reviews and previews of matches. Aside from that, I'd like to know as I am a paid up member.

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8 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

I have attached a link to the FAQs from TJF's website which outlines the approach to some of the issues raised here. Also, their twitter page states they will be having a meeting soon so that should help clarify things as well.

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/faq/

There has been a joint statement by the Club and TJF which clearly stated the proposals regards how many Directors - when they would appoint them and who vets them 

in essence the Majority Shareholders will have no Power to run the Club 

i can think of No Fan Ownership Model which follows this format - if the Shareholders have no Power whats the point of the Shares ? 

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6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There has been a joint statement by the Club and TJF which clearly stated the proposals regards how many Directors - when they would appoint them and who vets them 

in essence the Majority Shareholders will have no Power to run the Club 

i can think of No Fan Ownership Model which follows this format - if the Shareholders have no Power whats the point of the Shares ? 

Jim surely once the shares and ownership are transferred to TJF in June then it is up to the shareholders who is on the board and how many, this is the norm in any business or am I missing something 

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Because of the share distribution, it would need just one or two directors with  guts appointed from the TJF to determine who sits on the Board.  Low would not allow anyone like that to join the Board,  hence the vetting clause.  This is not fan ownership

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On 10/27/2021 at 2:49 PM, Jordanhill Jag said:

I think people have done that - and come to there own conclusions ........

In any Company the Majority Shareholders decide who and how the Company is run - I struggle to see how PTFC should be any different - otherwise what is the point of Fan Ownership 

Colin Weir wanted Fan Ownership that means the Fans decide on the Who & the How

Until the shares are handed over the majority shareholder is deciding how the company is run. That is 3BC. After the shares are transferred TJF will decide how the company is run. How can you come to any other conclusion from reading the statement? Unless you're putting your own words between the lines.

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11 minutes ago, scotty said:

Until the shares are handed over the majority shareholder is deciding how the company is run. That is 3BC. After the shares are transferred TJF will decide how the company is run. How can you come to any other conclusion from reading the statement? Unless you're putting your own words between the lines.

That’s not what the statement says “At the point the shares are handed over, a further TJF Director would be added, again subject to the agreement of the Club Board. “surely when shares are TJF property then the members of TJF decide the board

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9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

That’s not what the statement says “At the point the shares are handed over, a further TJF Director would be added, again subject to the agreement of the Club Board. “surely when shares are TJF property then the members of TJF decide the board

But as that can't be done until an AGM of TJF, the statement can surely only go as far as being a holding position.

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17 minutes ago, scotty said:

But as that can't be done until an AGM of TJF, the statement can surely only go as far as being a holding position.

An EGM can be called normally by majority shareholder(s), I’m ok with a transition period, but that period and the ramp up/ ramp down process needs to be set by TJF in consultation with its members, bottom line from June the board is accountable to TJF not 3BC so they should decide who is fit and proper and how many and when 

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19 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

An EGM can be called normally by majority shareholder(s), I’m ok with a transition period, but that period and the ramp up/ ramp down process needs to be set by TJF in consultation with its members, bottom line from June the board is accountable to TJF not 3BC so they should decide who is fit and proper and how many and when 

Agree but as membership has only been open a couple of days and is at present somewhere over a couple of hundred the interim measures seem to be reasonable and sensible and  in the best interest of PTFC.

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1 minute ago, scotty said:

Agree but as membership has only been open a couple of days and is at present somewhere over a couple of hundred the interim measures seem to be reasonable and sensible and  in the best interest of PTFC.

Whether the membership is 300 or 30000, come June they are the controlling shareholders, and that membership must call the shots otherwise it’s a puppet organization. 

If it’s members decide to transition one board member a week or a year that is for them and them only to decide, democratically, 1 member 1 vote, the current plan communicated basically states it will take 5 year, I’m only 1of 200 members but for me that is too long by 4 years. If TJF are not seen and clearly demonstrated to be able to control this for the fans and not be controlled by 3BC or any other non-majority shareholder then this fails.

There is 7 months between now and handover and I’m hoping fans will join to help drive a fast smooth transition towards actual fan ownership and fan control, as the other option fan ownership and 3rd part control will not fly for a lot of fans, myself included 

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20 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Whether the membership is 300 or 30000, come June they are the controlling shareholders, and that membership must call the shots otherwise it’s a puppet organization. 

If it’s members decide to transition one board member a week or a year that is for them and them only to decide, democratically, 1 member 1 vote, the current plan communicated basically states it will take 5 year, I’m only 1of 200 members but for me that is too long by 4 years. If TJF are not seen and clearly demonstrated to be able to control this for the fans and not be controlled by 3BC or any other non-majority shareholder then this fails.

There is 7 months between now and handover and I’m hoping fans will join to help drive a fast smooth transition towards actual fan ownership and fan control, as the other option fan ownership and 3rd part control will not fly for a lot of fans, myself included 

Both you and JJ have mentioned this 5 year period. Is this a legal or regulatory timescale? I can't find any mention of it in the statement.

Edited by scotty

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24 minutes ago, scotty said:

Both you and JJ have mentioned this 5 year period. Is this a legal or regulatory timescale? I can't find any mention of it in the statement.

That’s my mistake I read it as 1 a year, but it’s 1 this year and 1 in June (effectively 1 a year but not defined), both (including when 3BC no longer own the club) subject to approval from existing board(3BC).

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41 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

I prefer a slow handover of power as experience is kept and those learn from others.

I prefer a timescale that is set by the foundation based on its recommendation from its members, be that 1 month or 1 decade its for us to decide based on what is involved and who can come in

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It’s certainly not how I imagined fan ownership, but I wonder if Colin Weir had some sort of conditions stipulated in the transfer of shares. I can se why he might have thought this a good plan even if we don’t think so.

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TJF will have a presence at today's game so there is an opportunity to ask questions for those attending:

Don't forget you can catch us at the ground today. You'll find us near the turnstiles in the John Lambie and the Jackie Husband stand. We'll also have a presence pre-match in the Aitken Suite as well as hospitality and if you're popping in the Woodie after the game, you may also find one or more of us celebrating a successful afternoon!

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On 10/29/2021 at 8:02 AM, Norgethistle said:

Jim surely once the shares and ownership are transferred to TJF in June then it is up to the shareholders who is on the board and how many, this is the norm in any business or am I missing something 

It depends on whats written in the M&A of the Company or the Classification of Shares regards Voting Rights or any other clauses that they wish to attach to the transfer - there could be a "Golden Share" Clause 

Also we dont know if the 51% is in addition to the 20% already in Control of the Thistle Supporters Group - if its including - then it still gives a fair chunk of Shares to 3BC 

To get M&A changed its normally a 60% Vote or Higher - if there are still a large chunk of Shares Controlled outwith TJF- then you cant change the rules regards appointment of Directors - I hasten to add Im not an expert in Company Law-  but thats my understanding   

 

 

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On 10/29/2021 at 4:53 PM, scotty said:

Both you and JJ have mentioned this 5 year period. Is this a legal or regulatory timescale? I can't find any mention of it in the statement.

If its circa 1 a Year as currently proposed it would take 5 Years to the Fans to Control the Club  

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On 10/29/2021 at 4:38 PM, Lambies Lost Doo said:

I prefer a slow handover of power as experience is kept and those learn from others.

Can you advise precisely what experience the Current Board have ( or had ) when they took over the Club that we could not find within the Fan Base - what "Unique" Knowledge do they have ? 

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On 10/29/2021 at 4:03 PM, Norgethistle said:

An EGM can be called normally by majority shareholder(s), I’m ok with a transition period, but that period and the ramp up/ ramp down process needs to be set by TJF in consultation with its members, bottom line from June the board is accountable to TJF not 3BC so they should decide who is fit and proper and how many and when 

Depends whats in the M&A of the Company 

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On 10/29/2021 at 3:18 PM, scotty said:

Until the shares are handed over the majority shareholder is deciding how the company is run. That is 3BC. After the shares are transferred TJF will decide how the company is run. How can you come to any other conclusion from reading the statement? Unless you're putting your own words between the lines.

It depends on the Type of Shares & the associated Voting Rights - you can own the Majority of Shares but have limited Voting Rights ?    

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On 10/28/2021 at 9:21 PM, Norgethistle said:

Do we know if the 20% of the club gifted by Weir to the fans under guise of Partick Thistle Trust be added to the pot? Is the PT trust still there?

As for Jags Trust are they still about?

Jags Trust after the Share Issue have circa 6% of the Shareholding 

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17 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

It depends on the Type of Shares & the associated Voting Rights - you can own the Majority of Shares but have limited Voting Rights ?    

That’s critical details that I hope will be forthcoming by both parties 

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Hi Jim (and Stuart), and others

There is quite a lot of speculation on this thread which is well wide of the mark. You both know me personally,  and can contact me direct if you wish to know more.

In addition, there will shortly be a public meeting which will take the form of a Q and A to cover off what YOU want to hear more about.

A couple of factual points though -

It is commonplace for directors to have to approve share transfers in many, perhaps even most companies up and down the country. Partick Thistle is no different. It is inconceivable that the directors would not effect a transfer that their majority shareholder wished to happen, especially when it had been publicly announced.

Secondly, it is equally common, in fact perhaps moreso, for Boards of directors to approve the appointment of any new Board member to any Board. Once TJF are the majority shareholder, however, it will be for TJF board at that time to consider what to do in the frankly highly unlikely event this would happen. The TJF Board will be considering that position from the situation of being majority shareholder of the football club after this transitionary period.

Finally, the transfer of shares will be the entire shareholding held by 3BC. I believe everyone has understood that to be the case,  but as there is contrary speculation above, felt it was important to reiterate that.

Hope this helps and if not, my offer above is genuine, please feel free to contact me.

 

 

 

 

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