Club AGM

[Fawlty Towers]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:00 PM, Fawlty Towers said:

Whilst we are enjoying the men and women's teams recent cup victories just to point out that the youth team are in the quarter final of the Scottish Cup playing Ayr away at 2pm on Friday - let's hope they can make the semis.

Unfortunately no semi final for the youngsters as they lost 5-1 but stilla good effort to get to the quarters.

[Jordanhill Jag]

6 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Three observations:

1. The efforts to keep the Youth Academy going were specifically at the urging of the current management team

2. The community links of an Academy are not solely concerned with the community football initiatives

3. Whilst a cost-benefit analysis is absolutely a sensible thing to do (and sustainability work has been ongoing for several months now at the Academy) it's an odd thing to call for if someone has already made up their mind that it isn't affordable. Surely it's precisely that exercise that will determine whether that is the case?

First and its not a criticiscm  of Dools who I like - decisions on Youth Academies are not within the remit of Managers - simply because Football Management is very short term and Youth Development is a long term decision - Boards decide on this and should justify there decisions with financial data proving its worthwhile 

There are No Community Benefits nor should it matter - Youth Academies are there to produce Players / the Thistle Trust Role is Communities  

As a Club - its not affordable - thats a fact - its funded separately by a benefactor in the Short Term - if we have to fund it via the Club - it will shut ( or it comes out of Dools Budget ) 

Most Managers Ive ever spoken to ( including Two who managed in the English Premier ) would rather have the cash in there Player Budget Rightly So 

Lindsay came from Celtic and straight into the Development Squad under Scott McKenzie ( who we sacked ) Lindsay was never in our Youth Academy

Ignore its Football - the odds against a small Club in any Sport “ discovering” a talented Youngster who we bring through - hold onto and goes onto compete at the very top level are very very slim - that applies to any Sport 

We need to be stop this “ obsession” about Home Grown Players 

 

[dl1971]

I can't say whether Academies are financially viable or not. What I would say is what would happen if Academies didn't exist? They and systems like it benefit our young immensely, whether it benefits any senior club. Sometimes the greater good applies and perhaps the perceived cost is pretty irrelevant. 

[madcapmilkdrinker]

11 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There are No Community Benefits 

I simply disagree with that.

What are your thoughts on the money the club spends on the women’s team? 

[Jordanhill Jag]

7 minutes ago, madcapmilkdrinker said:

I simply disagree with that.

What are your thoughts on the money the club spends on the women’s team? 

It depends on the objectives as a Club - factoring in our limited resources 

First objective is Promotion then push onto trying to get into Europe 

If you have available cash then its money into the Recruitment and improve that side as its key to our future 

After that if you have cash then you can afford to put it into non core parts of the Club 

The decision is do you want success on the Park and Playing in Europe 

 

[Dick Dastardly]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

It depends on the objectives as a Club - factoring in our limited resources 

First objective is Promotion then push onto trying to get into Europe 

If you have available cash then its money into the Recruitment and improve that side as its key to our future 

After that if you have cash then you can afford to put it into non core parts of the Club 

The decision is do you want success on the Park and Playing in Europe 

 

I’d suggest that the women’s team is closer to playing in Europe than the men. 
I also think that is a very narrow view on the objectives of the club. Yes winning the Champions League should be the ultimate goal. But not the only one

[Jordanhill Jag]

8 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I’d suggest that the women’s team is closer to playing in Europe than the men. 
I also think that is a very narrow view on the objectives of the club. Yes winning the Champions League should be the ultimate goal. But not the only one

As if said - it depends on the objectives of the Club - if you want success on the park thats what you focus on 

PTFC play in the SPFL set up the Womens Team are in a different set up and for all intents and purposes a separate organisation from PTFC 

The objective of any Sporting Club is to compete at the very highest level possible - otherwise why are you there ? 

[madcapmilkdrinker]

27 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

It depends on the objectives as a Club - factoring in our limited resources 

First objective is Promotion then push onto trying to get into Europe 

If you have available cash then its money into the Recruitment and improve that side as its key to our future 

After that if you have cash then you can afford to put it into non core parts of the Club 

The decision is do you want success on the Park and Playing in Europe 

 

So you don’t support the money the Board allocate to the women’s team? Just want to clarify that. 

[Jordanhill Jag]

31 minutes ago, madcapmilkdrinker said:

So you don’t support the money the Board allocate to the women’s team? Just want to clarify that. 

Given we are forecasting £150k of losses and are being supported by TJF to the tune of £175K per year or the Trading losses would be £300K + then you have to allocate the available budget to your Core Business Activity 

That applies to any Non Core Activity - not just the Woman's Team we have to stop the Trading losses and break even 

[madcapmilkdrinker]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Given we are forecasting £150k of losses and are being supported by TJF to the tune of £175K per year or the Trading losses would be £300K + then you have to allocate the available budget to your Core Business Activity 

That applies to any Non Core Activity - not just the Woman's Team we have to stop the Trading losses and break even 

I’ll take that as a no. 

So, to get this straight, you want us to expand our fan base by stopping funding the women’s and youth set ups. Hmm, I can see some inconsistency here. 

And please don’t quote what Lambie said or did, it’s irrelevant in 2024. As you increasingly seem to be yourself. 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, madcapmilkdrinker said:

I’ll take that as a no. 

So, to get this straight, you want us to expand our fan base by stopping funding the women’s and youth set ups. Hmm, I can see some inconsistency here. 

And please don’t quote what Lambie said or did, it’s irrelevant in 2024. As you increasingly seem to be yourself. 

If your going to expand your Fan Base having a successful Team on the park is a core component - to do that you require cash - we at present lose money ( and continue to do so ) 

There is no inconsistency on any level 

The Club does not pay for the Youth Academy - its outsourced - if the Club had to fund it - then it wouldn't exist 

No fan will come and watch a losing team just because you have Home Grown Talent

You can recruit players with a decent Scouting Network and Good Relationships to get Loanees  

Same applied to the Woman's Team if we are getting beat every week at Firhill and the Stadium is falling apart - a successful Womans Team makes no difference 

BUT the bottom line is - we are losing money and we can only afford to fund the Core Part of the Club 

Would you prefer we keep racking up losses ? 

 

 

[javeajag]

I was reflecting on this as last week I went to watch Valencia play Athletic Blibao…. Now Valencia are a financial basket case but they won their fourth game in a row to go 7th in La Liga with the youngest team in the league 

Mosquera 19, Lopez 21, Perez 21, Guerra 20, Mari 20, Vasquez 20, Yerek 19..   all involved

if rumours are to believed Guerra is off to the premiership for 35m next season 

so academies can work it’s finding the right structure that works for us.

[CotterJag]

I get both arguments.

There's a case for both and I know Lambie preferred to cut the budget and concentrate on the first team and on players that would get him results in the near term.

My preference is that we have a club that has reaches beyond the first team and one that includes an academy, younger teams and women's teams.

It's not that I'm a massive supporter / follower of the other teams, I just feel that there are more benefits to this model.

Hamilton have proven that an academy can pay dividends and supporters of the women's team might start following the men's first team.

Overall, it's inoffensive and good for business.

I would also ensure that the first team has the right support network to thrive in the long term. This would include scouts and the necessary management team that allows Doolan to do his job properly.

If in the short term, this means we can't spend as much on players and players wages, then so be it.

It's a long game for me and targets to become a stable mid-table Premiership team, should be our aim.

From there, other success in Cups and maybe even a European jaunt could follow.     

Up The Jags.

[Jordanhill Jag]

30 minutes ago, CotterJag said:

I get both arguments.

There's a case for both and I know Lambie preferred to cut the budget and concentrate on the first team and on players that would get him results in the near term.

My preference is that we have a club that has reaches beyond the first team and one that includes an academy, younger teams and women's teams.

It's not that I'm a massive supporter / follower of the other teams, I just feel that there are more benefits to this model.

Hamilton have proven that an academy can pay dividends and supporters of the women's team might start following the men's first team.

Overall, it's inoffensive and good for business.

I would also ensure that the first team has the right support network to thrive in the long term. This would include scouts and the necessary management team that allows Doolan to do his job properly.

If in the short term, this means we can't spend as much on players and players wages, then so be it.

It's a long game for me and targets to become a stable mid-table Premiership team, should be our aim.

From there, other success in Cups and maybe even a European jaunt could follow.     

Up The Jags.

But we are losing money ? 
 

So what your saying is that we should continue to wrack up losses 

That Funds should be redirected from Dools Budget - to The Womans Team & a Youth Academy - which “ may “ pay dividends in Players & Fans “ someday”

So how long to we keep losing money for until we see if the dividends kick in ?
 

Its not a long game as last year showed we were going Bust  

[javeajag]

22 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

But we are losing money ? 
 

So what your saying is that we should continue to wrack up losses 

That Funds should be redirected from Dools Budget - to The Womans Team & a Youth Academy - which “ may “ pay dividends in Players & Fans “ someday”

So how long to we keep losing money for until we see if the dividends kick in ?
 

Its not a long game as last year showed we were going Bust  

I assume being profitable next year includes the cost of the academy so I’m nit sure your argument holds.

[Jordanhill Jag]

41 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I assume being profitable next year includes the cost of the academy so I’m nit sure your argument holds.

No - it doesn't

Academy Funding is not in our budgets  

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No - it doesn't

Academy Funding is not in our budgets  

So what’s the problem then ?! 

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

So what’s the problem then ?! 

Because there is a View that its a key part of the Club along with PT Women's Team 

Reality is if PTFC have to fund it next Season it will be cut as we are losing money - the choice is simple we either dedicate our limited Funds to the Core part of the Club - Cut the Funds to Dools to fund other parts that are Non Core - or Run up Debts - thats the Choices 

the increasing debt is not an option - so for those pushing to fund non Core Activities - its reducing Dools Budget and push for promotion 

[javeajag]

37 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Because there is a View that its a key part of the Club along with PT Women's Team 

Reality is if PTFC have to fund it next Season it will be cut as we are losing money - the choice is simple we either dedicate our limited Funds to the Core part of the Club - Cut the Funds to Dools to fund other parts that are Non Core - or Run up Debts - thats the Choices 

the increasing debt is not an option - so for those pushing to fund non Core Activities - its reducing Dools Budget and push for promotion 

Im confused you said its not in the clubs budget then you add an if to say it might be !!

[Jordanhill Jag]

28 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Im confused you said its not in the clubs budget then you add an if to say it might be !!

If we dont get a benefactor funding next Season we have to make a decision 

[fenski]

I assume those responsible for running the youth academy are aware of the general financial situation at the club, so will be looking for alternative funding sources for next year.

I would've thought the nature of the youth academy (positive experience for young people etc) would mean that trusts and grants might be options? Here in Perth, the Gannochy Trust provides financial support to a lot of community and sports organisations.

Having said that the club should provide financial support proportionate to benefits the club gets - academy players who make first team squad, development fees received when players are transferred etc.

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

If we dont get a benefactor funding next Season we have to make a decision 

So…..

1 how much does the academy cost

2 who pays for it

3 what’s the clubs commitment 

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 hours ago, javeajag said:

So…..

1 how much does the academy cost

2 who pays for it

3 what’s the clubs commitment 

1. Rough guess around £125K 

2.Currently for this Season a Benefactor + £2K / month from TJF 

3. No financial input that Im aware 

[jagfox]

So the Women's team and the academy do not get direct funding from the club?

So they need to run on what funds they attract?

So no idea why they affect the club or its budget, apart from in a positive way?

[scotty]

11 minutes ago, jagfox said:

So the Women's team and the academy do not get direct funding from the club?

So they need to run on what funds they attract?

So no idea why they affect the club or its budget, apart from in a positive way?

It's beginning to look as though some people just don't like women or youngsters playing football!