Woodstock Jag Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, dl1971 said: Don't have that particular spreadsheet to hand, but it's fairly well documented....that the vast majority of clubs struggle financially. Do you have evidence to the contrary ? In the interests of transparency... Morton made a £190k profit last season (2023-24), and would have probably roughly broken-even without their Ibrox tie. They have a similar level of fan-ownership contributions to us and have a very substantial commercial partnership with Dalrada (bringing in £200k last year more than the previous season, now worth over £300k). But they also have much lower turnover than us because of smaller crowds and less league prize-money and this is reflected in a smaller playing (and indeed overall staffing) budget. A lot of the privately owned Clubs in our league are losing money (some on eye-watering scales) but I think we probably do want to probe and better understand what it is that Morton appears to be doing right. Their cost base appears to be a lot lower than ours (though so is their revenue-generation). That needs properly looked-into. Edited February 6 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said: In the interests of transparency... Morton made a £190k profit last season (2023-24), and would have probably roughly broken-even without their Ibrox tie. They have a similar level of fan-ownership contributions to us and have a very substantial commercial partnership with Dalrada (bringing in £200k last year more than the previous season, now worth over £300k). But they also have much lower turnover than us because of smaller crowds and less league prize-money and this is reflected in a smaller playing (and indeed overall staffing) budget. A lot of the privately owned Clubs in our league are losing money (some on eye-watering scales) but I think we probably do want to probe and better understand what it is that Morton appears to be doing right. Their cost base appears to be a lot lower than ours (though so is their revenue-generation). That needs properly looked-into. Think Ayr do ok as well ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, javeajag said: Think Ayr do ok as well ? More complicated picture, but yes, they're one of the better ones. In 2022-23 they made a small (£20k) profit while finishing 2nd in the league and reaching the quarter-final of the Scottish Cup (good prize money, less so gate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 15 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: More complicated picture, but yes, they're one of the better ones. In 2022-23 they made a small (£20k) profit while finishing 2nd in the league and reaching the quarter-final of the Scottish Cup (good prize money, less so gate). Yes going out of all three cup competitions early is expensive …..l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 29 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes going out of all three cup competitions early is expensive …..l If you have budgeted for getting further, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 54 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes going out of all three cup competitions early is expensive …..l Do you make any money from early rounds of the Challenge Cup ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 33 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: If you have budgeted for getting further, yes. And in potential income Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 10 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Do you make any money from early rounds of the Challenge Cup ? a little …..but a medium sized run would cover the costs of the women’s team….. New SPFL Trust Trophy prize money Winners - £100,000 Runners-up - £60,000 Losing semi-finalists - £40,000 Losing quarter-finalists - £30,000 4th round losers - £20,000 3rd round losers - £15,000 2nd round losers - £10,000 1st round losers - £5,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 16 minutes ago, javeajag said: a little …..but a medium sized run would cover the costs of the women’s team….. New SPFL Trust Trophy prize money Winners - £100,000 Runners-up - £60,000 Losing semi-finalists - £40,000 Losing quarter-finalists - £30,000 4th round losers - £20,000 3rd round losers - £15,000 2nd round losers - £10,000 1st round losers - £5,000 Worth noting that this is the prize-money. In practice, the associated match-day costs mean that most Championship clubs lose money in the early rounds of the Challenge Cup. I've seen it suggested that participation is only regarded as profitable for a team like Thistle if they get to the semi-finals or better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 It is also usually low gates and an evening kickoff so with floodlights would probably have a high cost of hosting the game, so I suspect that going out in the first round is financially beneficial compared to getting through the first few rounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 35 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Worth noting that this is the prize-money. In practice, the associated match-day costs mean that most Championship clubs lose money in the early rounds of the Challenge Cup. I've seen it suggested that participation is only regarded as profitable for a team like Thistle if they get to the semi-finals or better. Embarrassing level of prize money. Only the SPFL could find a way to put teams into a cup competition that would result in a loss for many. Even drug dealers have the good sense to give you the first one for free before you have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 7 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: In the interests of transparency... Morton made a £190k profit last season (2023-24), and would have probably roughly broken-even without their Ibrox tie. They have a similar level of fan-ownership contributions to us and have a very substantial commercial partnership with Dalrada (bringing in £200k last year more than the previous season, now worth over £300k). But they also have much lower turnover than us because of smaller crowds and less league prize-money and this is reflected in a smaller playing (and indeed overall staffing) budget. A lot of the privately owned Clubs in our league are losing money (some on eye-watering scales) but I think we probably do want to probe and better understand what it is that Morton appears to be doing right. Their cost base appears to be a lot lower than ours (though so is their revenue-generation). That needs properly looked-into. Obviously we disagree on a lot ( well pretty much everything 😊 ) with the possible exception that Cats are Cool However - since Im happy to criticise - then its only fair that I acknowledge good work - both your own & Javea Jags contributions to the AGM were well thought out and I think will help get the Club on a more stable financial footing - which in the long term moves us forwards as a Club Well done both of you 👏👏 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Give peace a chance and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Re losing money by getting knocked out the Challenge Cup. Worth minding that resulted in getting our home league game v Falkirk switched from midweek to a Saturday. A crowd of circa 4800 that day plus a busy hospitality. Clouds and silver linings and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Worth noting that this is the prize-money. In practice, the associated match-day costs mean that most Championship clubs lose money in the early rounds of the Challenge Cup. I've seen it suggested that participation is only regarded as profitable for a team like Thistle if they get to the semi-finals or better. What is significant is that your Fan Revenues drop quite dramatically if you go out of the Cups early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Obviously we disagree on a lot ( well pretty much everything 😊 ) with the possible exception that Cats are Cool However - since Im happy to criticise - then its only fair that I acknowledge good work - both your own & Javea Jags contributions to the AGM were well thought out and I think will help get the Club on a more stable financial footing - which in the long term moves us forwards as a Club Well done both of you 👏👏 Cheers and cats are very cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Arguably not appropriate to this thread but worth remembering that if Falkirk or Livingston are crowned champions they will have to spend a fortune ripping up their plastic pitch in favour of grass. When VAR was introduced there was a levy of all Premiership clubs. Unless that was a one-off, Falkirk and Ayr Utd will also need to contribute towards the cost. Not sure if that applies to Livingston as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 36 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: Arguably not appropriate to this thread but worth remembering that if Falkirk or Livingston are crowned champions they will have to spend a fortune ripping up their plastic pitch in favour of grass. When VAR was introduced there was a levy of all Premiership clubs. Unless that was a one-off, Falkirk and Ayr Utd will also need to contribute towards the cost. Not sure if that applies to Livingston as well. I think there is now a 2 year grace period on removing plastic pitches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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