lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 If anyone thinks of increasing the price of a season ticket by 22% they can think again. A lot of folk buy STs out of loyalty knowing they'll miss the odd home game in eighteen. Extend that to twenty two home games, priced pro rata, and you're stretching that loyalty far too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Seems to make sense. More games to make up the income gap, like they do in the English Championship. Can't see how that works in Scotland. Crowds are so low that an extra few games' income is going to be largely offset by having to pay players extra appearance money and other extras. Extra money will only come in via more TV money and I suppose a 12 team league takes a bit of pressure off a lot of team in SPL2 as the danger of relegation is less (though far from completely gone). Edited January 17, 2011 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 If the SPL are so intent on a ten team league what's wrong with two leagues of 16 below them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE PRESS RELEASE 17 January 2011 For Immediate Release The Scottish Premier League (SPL) clubs today reaffirmed their commitment to the work of the Strategic Review Group to develop a structure for the whole of Scottish football. Broad support was given to progressing a 10-team Premiership and a 12- team Championship at the top of a pyramid for Scottish football as the preferred option. The SPL clubs have asked the executive team to further develop aspects of these proposals and to update the Strategic Review Group’s report. The SPL will now consult with the Scottish FA and the Scottish Football League and its clubs before a final decision by the SPL clubs. Interesting reading - broad support seems like an unconvincing attempt to suggest that there's enough votes in the bag for this. Equally, that the SPL are now going to enter into discussions with the SFL and SFA before coming to any final conclusion. I think there's still some way to go on this issue but I do bristle at the whole idea that the SPL take it upon themselves to determine what's best for Scottish football. Inclined to the view that they are a large part of the problem. Part of me would rather the SFL clubs told the SPL were to stick it and reorganised the three lower leagues independantly of them. Edited January 17, 2011 by Allan Heron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honved Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 So, battered by economic recession, constantly told on the TV news that food prices are going up, fuel is going up, jobs will be harder to come by and life might just be a wee bit less fun for a while, how many more folk will just chuck it? (The footy that is...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blutarsky Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 SPL. Hell mend 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've not spoken to one person who believes this plan of theirs will benefit the game in any way and that includes fans from all kinds of clubs. This will undoubtedly lead to crowds dropping even more than they are is is just another short-term act of greed on behalf of the SPL clubs. I hope the SFL and their members resoundingly tell them to take a **** to themselves and leave them to go back to the drawing board until they come up with something that the people who matter, the fans, want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 SPL. Hell mend 'em! Surely "SPHell Mend'em!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colognejag Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've not spoken to one person who believes this plan of theirs will benefit the game in any way and that includes fans from all kinds of clubs. This will undoubtedly lead to crowds dropping even more than they are is is just another short-term act of greed on behalf of the SPL clubs. I hope the SFL and their members resoundingly tell them to take a **** to themselves and leave them to go back to the drawing board until they come up with something that the people who matter, the fans, want. This is what the SPL seems to be forgetting - the SFL holds all the cards if they want to reduce the size of the SPL. SPL: Gonnae take Hamilton and St Mirren off of us? SFL: Er, naw... SPL: That's us Donald Ducked then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 This is what the SPL seems to be forgetting - the SFL holds all the cards if they want to reduce the size of the SPL. SPL: Gonnae take Hamilton and St Mirren off of us? SFL: Er, naw... SPL: That's us Donald Ducked then. Not how it would work. The 2nd tier would come under the administration of the SPL rather than the SFL. It would simply be a case of approaching SFL (or indeed any clubs that took their fancy) and say "here, want in the SPL 2nd tier? If you say no, you'll never get to play in the top two tiers of Scottish football again as we'll remove relegation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck snort Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 So what happened to Dundee Utd, ICT, Killie etc's opposition to the plans!!? Joke. We keep hearing from Doncaster that a larger league would cost each team £1m a year. How about they actually publish the numbers so the fans can see them. If they go ahead with the plan it will kill Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I can't see any team in the 1st division knocking this back. The financial incentive will be waved in front of them and all will agree Under the new SPL2 system clubs in the 1st division right now would be looking at... £1.7m currently allocated to teams in positions 11th & 12th in the SPL £600k which is already allocated to the SFL from the SPL being split amongst 12 clubs rather than the current 30 Additional playoff income Additional gate receipts from an extra 1 or 4 home games (depending on what system is used) No more involvement in the Challenge Cup which loses some clubs money unless they make the final Regardless of the pros and cons of the proposed system that will override any other thoughts when it comes down to the chairmen voting. They will happily shaft the 2nd and 3rd division teams for some extra cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-R Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's laughable how they've even nicked the terms of "Premiership" and "Championship" from the English as the proposed league names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's not like we gain anything from the teams coming down, either.St Mirren and Hamilton will be back down at 1300/1400 and 2800/3000 in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Only in Scotland would a task force set up to save the game decide to turn the clock back thirty years or so ; without, addressing any of the problems that caused the 10 team premier league to be scrapped years ago in the first place. I just give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 We're always hearing that football is too dear. It's fair to assume that many fans will not have the cash to finance attending another 8 games a season. Something has to give. I'd imagine season ticket sales will suffer and away fans will be even fewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 We're always hearing that football is too dear. It's fair to assume that many fans will not have the cash to finance attending another 8 games a season. Something has to give. I'd imagine season ticket sales will suffer and away fans will be even fewer. There's a thought. If they're going to spread the TV money about a little bit more, how about making it conditional on clubs using some of it to freeze ticket prices for a set number of years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's laughable how they've even nicked the terms of "Premiership" and "Championship" from the English as the proposed league names. When the Premiership stole the Premier bit from us in the first place. Anyway, I don't get this at all. No doubt individual club reps will come out in dribs and drabs with their positions, and will probably contradict Doncaster's statement of "broad agreement", leaving us nowhere further on. It's still a 10 club top division, so why is a 12 club 2nd division supposed to appease the likes of Hearts, Dundee Utd etc, who were against the 10 club top div? As I said much earlier, I don't trust a single word that Dimcaster says, but if I thought that we'd be £200k to £300k better off per season I'd jump at it just now, and hold on for a better system later. It's about survival just now. That matters more to me than anything else, much as I want a much bigger league. How much would we really get though? I seriously doubt we'd get anywhere near that. Why? Well, we already know that Doomcaster is a liar, and his arguments don't make sense. All these tw*ts supporting his plans buy the "bigger league equals a million less per season" nonsense. Will the last one to leave please padlock the turnstiles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J465 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Until the arrival of Mr Murdoch and Sky TV, I would suggest that football clubs generally lived within their means. Since then, players wages have become obscene, clubs are massively in debt, and a bigger gulf than ever exists between the 'top' clubs and the rest. Now it seems that the opinion of TV executives takes priority over 90% of the paying fan. If we, the supporter, want to see larger leagues, I feel that we have to target/boycott the Sky's and ESPN's of the world. A case of the tail wagging a very sick dog! Please could somebody with Pie and Bovril membership pas this suggestion on. There is nothing like a little bad press and subscription cancellation to focus the mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Slight tangent here, but was one of the recommendations in the McLeish report not that there were too many statutory bodies overseeing football in this country? With this proposal, we still seem to be left with the SPL, SFL and SFA. The SPL are in this for themselves and do not seem to be considering Scottish football as a whole. The SFL do not seem to have been consulted at all in this process - they are just involved after the SPL have made a decision amongst themselves. They will probably go ahead, invite 10 teams to make up their SPL2 (we would be stupid to say 'no'), we'll all still support Thistle and moan about playing 11 teams up to six times a season. Revolutionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) BBC website reporting that the SPL clubs have agreed a ten team league with twelve in the second tier. Genius. Let's swap the 12/10 league to a 10/12 format. Yep, that will solve all scottish footballs problems, increase attendances across the board, improve the standard. Not. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: If anyone thinks of increasing the price of a season ticket by 22% they can think again. A lot of folk buy STs out of loyalty knowing they'll miss the odd home game in eighteen. Extend that to twenty two home games, priced pro rata, and you're stretching that loyalty far too far. Spot on. If this (laughable) reorganisation gets the go-ahead, for the first division championship, PATG will need to revert back to £15 tops (ideally £1 or 2 less), and season tixs will need to be no more than £270/275 (ideally no more than £250). Anything more, and the recent drops in attendances will probably pale in comparison. I've not spoken to one person who believes this plan of theirs will benefit the game in any way and that includes fans from all kinds of clubs. This will undoubtedly lead to crowds dropping even more than they are is is just another short-term act of greed on behalf of the SPL clubs. I hope the SFL and their members resoundingly tell them to take a **** to themselves and leave them to go back to the drawing board until they come up with something that the people who matter, the fans, want. If only. The idiots who run our game (the SPL in particular) and the majority of SPL chairmen haven't got a clue. I feel the SFL 'bigwigs' are no better. Listen to the fans? What a novel, but ultimately will never happen, idea. Until the arrival of Mr Murdoch and Sky TV, I would suggest that football clubs generally lived within their means. Since then, players wages have become obscene, clubs are massively in debt, and a bigger gulf than ever exists between the 'top' clubs and the rest. Now it seems that the opinion of TV executives takes priority over 90% of the paying fan. If we, the supporter, want to see larger leagues, I feel that we have to target/boycott the Sky's and ESPN's of the world. A case of the tail wagging a very sick dog! Please could somebody with Pie and Bovril membership pas this suggestion on. There is nothing like a little bad press and subscription cancellation to focus the mind! Nothing stopping you signing up yourself and putting your suggestion to those who use P&B. For me, it's simple. 16 (or ideally) 18 team top league, same size below (and two regional leagues below). One Home, and one away game against everyone. No splits. No dodgy artifical mucking about of leagues. Simple two up two down, with a playoff between 3rd bottom and 3rd top. Fans will be less likely to 'pick and choose' their games, no more 4 games (or up to 7 times a season) against the same 8 or 9 teams season after season. Home crowds would go up. Away supports would also be increased. Regionalise the League Cup. 7 groups of 6, Top 2 and best 2 3rd placed teams go into a 16 team straight knockout phase. With guaranteed 5 home and 5 away games against local rivals (before anyone can be knocked out), it would mean derby-sized gates every game, win win for the clubs (splitting gates equally), and with the regional leagues starting at beginning of season (use mid July - mid August), means good start to season financially for all clubs. Would also mean the Ugly Sisters get their 4 bigot fests and TV rats are happy. Bin the Challenge Cup, keep Scottish Cup format as it is. It's a no-brainer to me, but what the fck do I know. Edited January 17, 2011 by yoda-jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 but if I thought that we'd be £200k to £300k better off per season I'd jump at it just now, and hold on for a better system later. It's about survival just now. That matters more to me than anything else, much as I want a much bigger league. But even if that amount was correct these figures would only be the top line. I'm not going to buy a season ticket at a price scaled up to 22 home games. I simply couldn't afford or justify the additional expenditure. We can expect away attendances to drop even further as well. In short crowds are bound to drop while the cost of staging a home match remains at best constant. Go on any fans forum and you'll find somewhere a thread about how we can get more folk along to games. We've had countless on Jags websites. Loads of ideas some better than others. But I can guarantee you'll not find anyone suggesting "hey, this playing each other four times a season is great. Let's not limit it to 36 games, let's play another couple of teams four times" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Slight tangent here, but was one of the recommendations in the McLeish report not that there were too many statutory bodies overseeing football in this country? With this proposal, we still seem to be left with the SPL, SFL and SFA. The SPL are in this for themselves and do not seem to be considering Scottish football as a whole. The SFL do not seem to have been consulted at all in this process - they are just involved after the SPL have made a decision amongst themselves. They will probably go ahead, invite 10 teams to make up their SPL2 (we would be stupid to say 'no'), we'll all still support Thistle and moan about playing 11 teams up to six times a season. Revolutionary. McLeish's integrity has been dealt a severe blow by the fact that he included a recommendation for two 10 ten team leagues in his report. If there's a case for a reform of the governance of the footballing authorities in this country then surely you do that and then consider league structure. But no, he suggests you take the self-interested recommendations of one of these groups and looks to impose this on the others before any reform of the multiple governing bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 McLeish's integrity has been dealt a severe blow by the fact that he included a recommendation for two 10 ten team leagues in his report. If there's a case for a reform of the governance of the footballing authorities in this country then surely you do that and then consider league structure. But no, he suggests you take the self-interested recommendations of one of these groups and looks to impose this on the others before any reform of the multiple governing bodies. What I was trying to say, but better. Reform the governing bodies first, then restructuring will probably be more inclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 44 league games a season!!! Lets do the maths here 52 weeks a year. summer break 10 weeks (end may - mid aug) Internatinol weekends 4 scottish cup 2 (3rd & 4th Round) 36 weeks to play 44 games, plus league cup say 2 games, scottish cup runs and replays. Plus this SPL cup they are talking about!! There could be 11 or 12 mid week games minimum for most teams before the bad weather takes hold and causes a fixture back log. This is pure fantasy by the powers that be, midweek attendances are always lower than saturdays. You may have the same amount of folk paying in over the season but that will be split over more games, with the cost to the club higher (opening the ground for more match days, more use of floodlights, more wages for players, bigger pools of players due to the greater amount of fixtures etc). 18% more games the players will be looking for 18% more money. It'll cost the fans at least 18% more money to see all the games cause the prices wont come down at best they will freeze per game but season tickets will come up. Travelling support will come down due to cost of travelling, less revenue. Hopeless situation if this comes through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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