Terminal Decline?

[beep0608]

I have a growing belief that we're in a terminal decline. Not so long ago a life without Thistle would have seemed inconceivable but now I'm not so sure. I'll keep going to my usual 12 - 15 games a season, but as fans continue to drift away and we keep infighting I'm increasingly disillusioned in the whole thing, including this......ah feck.

 

Dunno really...

Edited April 16, 2011 by beep0608

[gianlucatoni]

I have a growing belief that we're in a terminal decline. Not so long ago a life without Thistle would have seemed inconceivable but now I'm not so sure. I'll keep going to my usual 12 - 15 games a season, but as fans continue to drift away and we keep infighting I'm increasingly disillusioned in the whole thing, including this......ah feck.

 

Dunno really...

 

 

That's all that matters beep - Morton next Saturday at home followed by a day oot in Shawlands on Sunday versus Pollok - it's all good and we might even get some sunshine as well.

[lennythistle]

Sure things ain't great just now but it's been far worse at the club before. There are a number of promising youth players at the club, and a good few of the better players at the club are signed up for next season.

 

Sure crowds are down but they are for most if not all teams in the league. Pitch is poor but there are a number of reasons for this and not just because there is rugby played on the park.

 

We've come through worse, we'll come through this better for the experience.

[Big Col]

It's just really difficult to get motivated and excited about all things red and yellow right now.

[phoenix1876]

It's just really difficult to get motivated and excited about all things red and yellow right now.

 

fully agree with this statement. However i am still wearing the colours with pride over in new zealand

[jaggy]

Scottish football is dying on it's arse, it's not just us. The standard is probably the worst we have ever seen. Players we think are decent just now wouldn't get in to our teams of yesteryear (and I'm not just being nostalgic). A serious rethink is needed, but I've no idea what the answer is, but thats 4 or 5 home games now with crowds of well under 2000, something we haven't seen for a long time. answers on a postcard please!!!

[phoenix1876]

bring down the cost of the games or get more for your moneys worth i.e a pie and bovril with each ticket.

find a player who appeals to the fans (i remember watching an interview with charnley and he mentioned you dont get players like him anymore.

better offers for students, kids & oaps (my father once mentioned about bringing asylum seekers and refugees to games. lets be honest why not?). We have to make the club more appealling and making it a football club and not a business.

 

Heres a fact German football clubs are clubs which are rarely in debt ... why ??? why cant we send someone over to get ideas from them

sure not from the likes of bayern or what not. But smaller clubs.

 

Now to the standard of quality football... as we all know "its dying on its arse" mean come on .. it is.

for example

rangers & celtic in europe & the scotland international team

i feel we are the laughing stock of europe.

 

So what do we do... how do we change this

in the league.. we have to change it to a 2 teir system

the only league that can get away with it is the english because there is so many teams

we get so used to playing against the same players that when we come up against european team

were screwed.

 

secondly it has to change in schools. There should be something to intice more kids to play football. To teach a style of football that isnt like it is just now.

 

 

There has to be drastic changes

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Don't know if anyone else heard the interview with Brannigan yesterday. Our situation appears rosy and full of promise compared to what's going on at Palmerston.

 

Would come as a complete surprise to me if the great & mighty KB wasn't an applicant for our vacancy.

[Dr.D]

Don't know if anyone else heard the interview with Brannigan yesterday. Our situation appears rosy and full of promise compared to what's going on at Palmerston.

 

Would come as a complete surprise to me if the great & mighty KB wasn't an applicant for our vacancy.

And why not? He's done quite a good job down there working on a shoestring budget. Anyway I think Jackie and Sid wil be for the off.

[Jaggernaut]

Scottish football is dying on it's arse, it's not just us. The standard is probably the worst we have ever seen. Players we think are decent just now wouldn't get in to our teams of yesteryear (and I'm not just being nostalgic). A serious rethink is needed, but I've no idea what the answer is, but thats 4 or 5 home games now with crowds of well under 2000, something we haven't seen for a long time. answers on a postcard please!!!

I was thinking about this on the way home yesterday. For me it really started with closing the main stand, which instantly made the place look like a ghost town. Add that to the bing, then you get games like yesterday's that are taking place in a 1-sided stadium. Add the terrible pitch and the poor quality of the football on show, along with the high cost when money is tight......

[Firhillista]

Could we all not, like, lighten up a bit? I'm quite partial myself to Cassandra-like predictions of impending doom, but it doesn't exactly put a spring in your step, does it? It's a recognised fact that negative thinking is one of the main symptoms of clinical depression so, apart from advising the ingestion of large amounts of anti-depressants by a lot of the posters on here, the best advice would be - be happy! Yes, things are grim in Scottish football, but then they're pretty grim in all other walks of life too. And I know that the future at Firhill seems a little uncertain, but we do have a crop of good young players coming through and there's always (as always) next season.

 

It hacks me off no end to come on here to find folk needing to share how fed up they are with all things Thistle. I don't need to know that. I still get (pathetically) excited about going to watch the Jags and I don't need a lot of folk telling me that they no longer care a toss about them. In the words of the People's Poet, Bob Dylan - if you cannot bring good news, then don't bring any!

[Fawlty Towers]

Could we all not, like, lighten up a bit? I'm quite partial myself to Cassandra-like predictions of impending doom, but it doesn't exactly put a spring in your step, does it? It's a recognised fact that negative thinking is one of the main symptoms of clinical depression so, apart from advising the ingestion of large amounts of anti-depressants by a lot of the posters on here, the best advice would be - be happy! Yes, things are grim in Scottish football, but then they're pretty grim in all other walks of life too. And I know that the future at Firhill seems a little uncertain, but we do have a crop of good young players coming through and there's always (as always) next season.

 

It hacks me off no end to come on here to find folk needing to share how fed up they are with all things Thistle. I don't need to know that. I still get (pathetically) excited about going to watch the Jags and I don't need a lot of folk telling me that they no longer care a toss about them. In the words of the People's Poet, Bob Dylan - if you cannot bring good news, then don't bring any!

 

[Jaggernaut]

Could we all not, like, lighten up a bit? I'm quite partial myself to Cassandra-like predictions of impending doom, but it doesn't exactly put a spring in your step, does it? It's a recognised fact that negative thinking is one of the main symptoms of clinical depression so, apart from advising the ingestion of large amounts of anti-depressants by a lot of the posters on here, the best advice would be - be happy! Yes, things are grim in Scottish football, but then they're pretty grim in all other walks of life too. And I know that the future at Firhill seems a little uncertain, but we do have a crop of good young players coming through and there's always (as always) next season.

 

It hacks me off no end to come on here to find folk needing to share how fed up they are with all things Thistle. I don't need to know that. I still get (pathetically) excited about going to watch the Jags and I don't need a lot of folk telling me that they no longer care a toss about them. In the words of the People's Poet, Bob Dylan - if you cannot bring good news, then don't bring any!

Hear Hear!

 

Yes, it's grim, but it has been a lot worse.

 

And we have the makings of "a right good team" (I. McCall, 2011).

 

Next season ticket's money is ready to send off to start supporting the next campaign.

[Fellow Traveller]

Worrying about the club and sharing those worries with other fans has usually been the first step towards trying to do something to fix it.

 

Still see lots of people pounding the Jags Trust for its undeniable uselessness, but if you actually want it to be useful, how many have bothered to sign up so they can vote for change? Not so many. Sitting at your computer clicking your way through a survey, no problem. Moaning about decisions you don't like, skooshy. You want the top off my ginger bottle? Happy to oblige. But making the slightest genuine effort to change the situation...nah.

 

The club is in a state, but no more so than us ourselves.

[kni]

We are in a difficult financial position but not terminal decline. We were in terminal decline when facing relegation to the 3rd Division before Lambie came back and worked his magic. John Lambie saved Partick Thistle and, judging by his comments following McCall's departure, is willing to help us again. Lambie working with a young and ambitious first-team manager or coach could work for us again.

 

David Beattie is only Acting Chairman and is in a very difficult position. The shareholders can force him into taking decisions that he strongly disagrees with. The shareholders can even decide who is appointed team manager. Even with PropCo, our finances are very precarious. The servicing of the debt, and its terms, will limit next season's budget.

 

A few teams will be in a similar or worse position in our division next season. Full-time football is unsustainable on crowds of under 4,000 without the financial support (donations in effect) of generous owners. Until Scottish football faces up to this reality, debts will continue to rise and more clubs will go into administration or liquidation.

 

My sig sums up what being a Jags supporter really means. We have two options - give up supporting the team that we love or get behind Beattie and hope that he turns the club round. My choice is the latter and it should be yours too.

Edited April 17, 2011 by kni

[jagfox]

Worrying about the club and sharing those worries with other fans has usually been the first step towards trying to do something to fix it.

 

Still see lots of people pounding the Jags Trust for its undeniable uselessness, but if you actually want it to be useful, how many have bothered to sign up so they can vote for change? Not so many. Sitting at your computer clicking your way through a survey, no problem. Moaning about decisions you don't like, skooshy. You want the top off my ginger bottle? Happy to oblige. But making the slightest genuine effort to change the situation...nah.

 

The club is in a state, but no more so than us ourselves.

Get out for a nice walk in the park, its a lovely day

[jagfox]

We have two options - give up supporting the team that we love or get behind Beattie and hope that he turns the club round. My choice is the latter and it should be yours too.

There is always a third way (tony blair circa 2003 ) probably a lot more than that in actuality. As you say Beattie has shown the cojones for what ever reason to actually run the club so I guess he needs to be supported as long as propco rumours are not true

[Steven H]

Could we all not, like, lighten up a bit? I'm quite partial myself to Cassandra-like predictions of impending doom, but it doesn't exactly put a spring in your step, does it? It's a recognised fact that negative thinking is one of the main symptoms of clinical depression so, apart from advising the ingestion of large amounts of anti-depressants by a lot of the posters on here, the best advice would be - be happy! Yes, things are grim in Scottish football, but then they're pretty grim in all other walks of life too. And I know that the future at Firhill seems a little uncertain, but we do have a crop of good young players coming through and there's always (as always) next season.

 

It hacks me off no end to come on here to find folk needing to share how fed up they are with all things Thistle. I don't need to know that. I still get (pathetically) excited about going to watch the Jags and I don't need a lot of folk telling me that they no longer care a toss about them. In the words of the People's Poet, Bob Dylan - if you cannot bring good news, then don't bring any!

 

100% agree with this. PTFC - It is what it is, and it's not really different to what it's always been. Fans attitude towards PTFC has changed tho. Optimism, hope and having fun in the face of adversity all seem to have gone from many of the supporters. Sad really.

 

Worrying about the club and sharing those worries with other fans has usually been the first step towards trying to do something to fix it.

 

Still see lots of people pounding the Jags Trust for its undeniable uselessness, but if you actually want it to be useful, how many have bothered to sign up so they can vote for change? Not so many. Sitting at your computer clicking your way through a survey, no problem. Moaning about decisions you don't like, skooshy. You want the top off my ginger bottle? Happy to oblige. But making the slightest genuine effort to change the situation...nah.

 

The club is in a state, but no more so than us ourselves.

 

In a nutshell, chicken and egg scenario time. Do we need the Club to shape up in order for the fans to, or the fans to shape up in order to help the Club? I know where I stand on that one (see above)

[gianlucatoni]

Simple way to get everyone back at Firhill:

 

1. Shut down the internet and confiscate all mobile phones/Xbox/PS3s etc

2. Reduce the numbers of TV channels to three - and make them all black and white

3. Only put on 5 live matches on the TV per year serviced by a sputnik satellite that only gives 3 minutes signal per game as it passes overhead in low orbit

4. Get women back to being housewives with their place in the home at the bottom rung well defined

5. Bring back the belt in schools - just for the hell of it!

 

It's never going to happen for obvious reasons but our lives over the last 30 years have changed significantly and as well as people being skint there is simply other stuff to do as well.

 

Phoenix1876 talked about it having to change in schools .. here's some personal insight:

- My boy went to a primary school with 750 kids but there wasn't a single attempt by the staff to do a football team and that was in a primary school where there was oddly enough a good few blokes teaching

- He's now in a secondary school with 1700 kids and the first year school team isn't even in a league (only cups - e.g. the staff can only be ar*ed with maybe one or 2 games per year)

- I also teach and had my under-16s in a league 2 years ago ... they were red rotten but they were out there losing 10 games in the run in to Xmas plus another 3 games in 3 cup competitions ... come the new year however came the deputation that they didn't like losing and they didn't want to play any more games ... net result the rest of their league fixtures went unfulfilled.

- This years U16s were even more laughable - 28 turned up to the pre-trial training and bounce game but only 3 turned up to the trial on a Saturday morning ... with 21 seemingly too good for a trial, others demanding a place in the starting 11 (i.e. picking themselves and not wanting to be subs) or some who just refused to "attend school" on a Saturday.

 

I feel it all started with the school industrial action in the mid-1980's where staff downed tools in terms of extra-curricular sports provision (I was a pupil then coming out of a sixth year so it didn't really affect me) and when competitive 11-a-sides on red ash/blaes were removed from primary school rotas in favour of the so called "skills based" bollox 7's. The loss of the throughput of thousands of kids in the competitive game willing to play on concrete/ash/whatever and put in the hours each week needed has been absolutely reponsible for the drop in quality and, while I agree with phoenix1876, the remedy is a whole lot more complex these days - and certainly hasn't been found in McLeish's review.

 

Answers on a postcard please.

[Mr Bunny]

- This years U16s were even more laughable - 28 turned up to the pre-trial training and bounce game but only 3 turned up to the trial on a Saturday morning ... with 21 seemingly too good for a trial, others demanding a place in the starting 11 (i.e. picking themselves and not wanting to be subs) or some who just refused to "attend school" on a Saturday.

in McLeish's review.

 

Answers on a postcard please.

 

Just one answer to one bit ...

 

Why not have some in-school games (very short league) where they're in teams that play each other a few times. Best players get choosen for main team who play inter school league or cup. That way everyone who wants to play, plays and they'll soon see who are the better players and will be less likely moan about not being picked (or if they do their mates will slag them off having seen them play.

 

With a very small league you don't have to play all the teams the same day, so no extra pitches needed. With only a few games there's time for the big team to play inter school games.

 

No more answers but a comment ...

One other point about red-ash. Quite right kids don't play on it...schools should have decent grass or artificial pitches available .. that's one thing McLeish's review could insist on.

 

Also if 7-aside's is bollox, how come it's a mainstay of the Dutch football development system? The thing is they have a whole lot of things in place as well as this but just because we don't doesn't mean its' bollox, it just means we don't do things properly even when we bring in some of the right ideas.

[gianlucatoni]

One other point about red-ash. Quite right kids don't play on it...schools should have decent grass or artificial pitches available .. that's one thing McLeish's review could insist on.

 

Also if 7-aside's is bollox, how come it's a mainstay of the Dutch football development system? The thing is they have a whole lot of things in place as well as this but just because we don't doesn't mean its' bollox, it just means we don't do things properly even when we bring in some of the right ideas.

 

 

Red ash was a fine surface indeed - and there were some well tended thick blaes surfaces out there when I was a kid playing so I'd have to disagree with that comment. A well tended blaes surface was simply streets ahead of 3G/4G IMHO.

 

As for the 7s comment the kids these days can't scale up the 7s to 11s in terms of positioning or job. Add into the mix that their fitness levels are a complete disgrace. The kids think all they have to do is turn out once a week for a half hour or hour in 7s and hey presto they are ready for selection for Real Madrid. I think Levein (much as I dislike him) hit the nail on the head when he asked "where are the kids these days out there with a ball putting in 20 hours or more a week" ... the answer is that they are a rare breed these days if they exist at all and one or 2 games of 7s a week won't make home-grown van Bastens I'm afraid.

 

As for the inter-pupil football we do have that but they still all think they're a Rooney or Messi - do you really expect them to throw in the towel in front of their mates when they see (and they do see weekly how out of touch and unfit they are) they are red rotten? Wishful thinking.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Can blame schools/infrastructure all you like for demise of football but there's another group just as guilty, parents.

Most use youth football as a baby sitting service and very few are ever available when transport or additional help is required. The worst are the ones that tho' never an assistance turn up regularly to watch Wee Johnny play and act like total imbeciles on the touchline.

Just for the record I'm not and never have been a teacher but I fully understand why they wouldn't want to get involved in extra school activities (especially football). Those who do, along with youth coaches and those that run juvenile football clubs, have my sympathy and respect in equal doses.

[Steven H]

Can blame schools/infrastructure all you like for demise of football but there's another group just as guilty, parents.

Most use youth football as a baby sitting service and very few are ever available when transport or additional help is required. The worst are the ones that tho' never an assistance turn up regularly to watch Wee Johnny play and act like total imbeciles on the touchline.

Just for the record I'm not and never have been a teacher but I fully understand why they wouldn't want to get involved in extra school activities (especially football). Those who do, along with youth coaches and those that run juvenile football clubs, have my sympathy and respect in equal doses.

 

I sought to start a youth team (under 12's) in my local area a couple of years ago...but it aint as easy as it once was. Disclosure Scotland checks, coaches badges and a fair bit of cash is needed to do such a thing and I couldn't justify that given the lack of help coming from the local community. Add the other extra activities now available for kids (computer games etc) and it is all having an impact on grass roots football in our country.

[lennythistle]

Ok, bit of sanity here.

 

At start of season we had a thread asking where we thought PTFC would end the season. A good few thought a season trying to avoid relegation (some thought we would be). A good few thought at best we would finish in play off spot. Some dared to dream of a higher finish. We wanted to see some of the youngsters blooded. We have. We wanted to see some get full 90 minutes, we have. Funny when that happens we get calls from some that Campbell should have been taken off yesterday ! Should Jackie not be applauded for giving Campbell the 90 minutes and helping his developement?

 

Yesterday's draw guaranteed out first division status with 4 games to go. Now it hasn't been the best season but it sure as hell ain't been the worst. Terminal decline..............I DON'T THINK SO.

[jagfox]

Terminal Decline? I've not quite given up yet but...

 

If this happens the OP will have to change their name to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep