P-R Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Looks like we are in for another farcical summer in Scottish football where there'll be dithering until the last minute what the exact setup will be and which teams will make it up. There's a definite PR offensive to get "The Rangers" back into SPL1 with all the sucking up going on about how Scottish football misses the big OF games and how the clubs are losing money (which they always were before) Regan, Doncaster & Longmuir should chuck it. The ship is rudderless anyway. Edited March 12, 2013 by P-R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted March 12, 2013 Members Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Scottish football would benefit better with a limit to squad size at all age levels. The smaller Clubs would have more chance of picking up some of the better young players instead of them signing for the likes of the OF where 1st team opportunities for youngsters are very rare. If Bannigan and O'Donnell were still with Celtic they wouldn't be getting a sniff of 1st team football with the size of squad Celtic have. I wouldn't be surprised if Celtic could field a side of fringe players without any young players in it that would be good enough to hold their own in the 1st Division and probably even the SPL. Yet Celtic probably have one of the largest contingent of young Scottish footballers. What chance do these lads have until such times as they realise they have to leave or are freed? I reckon that coaching through most senior Clubs nowadays is probably on a par when the Clubs have fully qualified coaches. Only the facilities will differ. I also think that if the better younger players in Scotland were more evenly distributed, they would be more likely to break through earlier and this would result in the standard of the football increasing as these young players would develop much quicker with the benefit of experience of first team football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Can not say how much I don't want these sh**e old firm diddy B teams. Would be terrible. As if they don't steal enough players already (not so much in recent seasons). All their B teams will be youngsters stolen from everyone else. Awful, awful idea. Also could do without those fans travelling even further around the country. We already agreed at the first meeting that it is a no go. Scottish football benefits nothing. Also, Ross County are a joke. The only SPL team against it and it's their first season there. Self preservation of the highest order. Petrified next season they will be in bottom four. This whole situation is now annoying me more than it should. If only rugby was good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 My thoughts exactly about Ross County! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hansen Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 My thoughts exactly about Ross County! On reconstruction why are Rangers buying players they most certainly dont need to win the second division?could it be they know something we dont? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) That sounds exactly like the stultifying set-up that we have and that just about everybody, clubs and supporters, want to change. And yet they are praising it?? Baffling. It would suggest that the set up itself is not the thing but the setup that is best for a country's particular football culture at a particular time. For instance, how close are teams in the two top tens in Sw'd. to each other, what are their average crowds, what's away support like, what TV deals do they have, do they have a winter break, etc.?? Unless you know the background it's hard to judge. What didn't work for them might work for us - not saying it will just that because it didn't work there doesn't mean it might not work here. Point of looking there would be to see how it's run which would save a lot of effort than if we'd to work that out from scratch. Edited March 13, 2013 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 2 leagues of 20, play home and away once a season, no splits. Stick the other two stains on our society in their own league of two. Sorted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 What do people think of the idea of supra-national leagues like has been set up in the women's game? If Rangers and Celtic were to join a league with some top Belgian, Dutch and Scandinavian teams, would we be glad to see the back of them or would they simply steal so much publicity that we'd be doomed? There is a part of me that likes the idea, provided there is some form of promotion/relegation to/from the league. For example, the bottom placed two clubs could enter a play off with the national league winners from each country. Promotion would be unlikely with such different finances, but Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) On reconstruction why are Rangers buying players they most certainly dont need to win the second division?could it be they know something we dont? Possibly they were given a nod and a wink but I think the main reason was that they needed first to move season ticket sales and then boost the share issue ...the latter done more with talk about big player buying kitties for McCoist and getting themselves linked with various players via friendly churnos. They keep needing to boost themselves as a third division side playing crap football is difficult to sell. Edited March 13, 2013 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'm not overly concerned whether the ugly sisters were to field colt sides or not. That would be on the assumption that they themselves had already abandoned Scottish football to play in some other league. I don't know how anyone can be surprised at Longmuir's latest utterances. At best he's come in under the radar in the hypocrisy stakes but was far more than just willing to condone much of the proposed shenanigans last summer. . If Regan & Doncaster were to be depicted as Ronnie & Reggie then Longmuir would make a fine Charlie Kray. Not as bad but bad all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The idea of colt teams is ridiculous, Longmuir was quoted in the Metro this morning saying if they leave it still gives them a presence, why should they get a presence if they choose to leave Scottish football, and why should what will be an SFL2 team next season get a colt team in the league below them? Young players are better off in other teams playing football at a SFL1 or SPL level, not languishing in the colt teams of either old firm team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 What do people think of the idea of supra-national leagues like has been set up in the women's game? If Rangers and Celtic were to join a league with some top Belgian, Dutch and Scandinavian teams, would we be glad to see the back of them or would they simply steal so much publicity that we'd be doomed? There is a part of me that likes the idea, provided there is some form of promotion/relegation to/from the league. For example, the bottom placed two clubs could enter a play off with the national league winners from each country. Promotion would be unlikely with such different finances, but I think UEFA pooh poohed Russia and Ukraines' proposal of a joint league. So may have put a dampner on that kind of proposal? North Atlantic league? What next a SuperCasino with a monorail in Govan Maybe a Eurowide Pawnbrokers cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 According to Longmuir (reported on the BBC): He explains: "The colt team would be unable to be promoted to a division above if that colt teams 'parent' team were participating in that division, nor could they participate in any cup competition where the 'parent' club were participating." In other words, the "colt" teams could end up playing in the so-called SPL 2, and might even end up in the proposed bottom 4-top 4 mini-league that would decide on who would end up in the SPL the following season. In other words, those colt teams could prevent other teams from getting to the SPL. The guy's a total a**hole. His proposal has no merit whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I think there is meant to be a vote early March but going by recent headlines then it won't be happening. Ross County being complete idiots seen as they have had one season doing well they are now content with the closed shop system. Would be very different if them and Dundee swapped league places. St Jonstone also "like" status quo but that is only down to Rangers not being there this year. As we know, if two teams vote no then its over. SFL wise they have decided that league of 12 12 10 10 is prefered. With the split of 8 teams and league merging etc etc as well. Don't know why they don't want the 18 team league as everyone apparantly wants two games a season. These teams have loyal crowds as well so it is not like there is much difference in attendance between challenging for play offs or finishing 7th. I think these comments are harsh on Ross County. I have read nothing that they want a closed shop and are against reconstruction.On the contenary their chairmen comments that the changes proposed are not what the fans want. We all just want bigger top leagues and less games against the same teams. Full stop. They are only stepping back from this ludicrous mid season split lottery which may lead to selling two season tickets a year. What is PTFC position on these proposal.Do we have a position or are we just waiting to vote on something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Complete and utter disgrace from those in charge of the game, once again. The fans want a bigger top league, and those in power fob us off by saying "That's not on the table". Why is it not on the table if it's clearly what the fans want? Also find it funny how guys like Tom English and Spiers are constantly telling us all that we, the fans, "don't understand the economics." We are constantly told that a 16 team league wouldn't work because clubs would be worse off. Firstly, I don't think this is true. Secondly, we have been putting the short term finances at the top of the agenda for years, and look where it's got us. Let's start thinking long term about this. The SPL as an organisation should be totally disbanded and the teams should all return to the SFL set up. The SPL has been nothing but an embarrassment since day 1. Who can forget SPL TV, Thistle-gate, Motherwell escaping relegation twice, Gretna, and of course Rangers. For me, it's no coincidence that we haven't qualified for a tournament since its inception. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'm not overly concerned whether the ugly sisters were to field colt sides or not. That would be on the assumption that they themselves had already abandoned Scottish football to play in some other league. I don't know how anyone can be surprised at Longmuir's latest utterances. At best he's come in under the radar in the hypocrisy stakes but was far more than just willing to condone much of the proposed shenanigans last summer. . If Regan & Doncaster were to be depicted as Ronnie & Reggie then Longmuir would make a fine Charlie Kray. Not as bad but bad all the same. Yeah, I don't get where this idea that Longmuir was one of the good guys came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I listened to Longmuir on Sportsound on the way to the Livi game in Janaury and, to be honest, despite being a cynic beforehand, thought he made a lot of sense while talking about the issues facing the Scottish game. Now this. This is possibly the most farcical idea ever presented in the list of ridiculous proposals to apparently "improve" Scottish football. Justifying it by saying it works in Spain is a nonsense - a country of vast size in comparison to us with hundreds of professional/semi-professional clubs, operating in a league structure that can sustain the inclusion of colt teams. I know we don't often view things from an Old Firm perspective but are Celtic and Rangers fans going to be expected to fork out twice the amount to watch two teams? Very unfair to expect one fanbase, however big, to finance the existence of two teams. Whoever came up with this as a legitimate idea, be it Longmuir or one of his cronies, should be bulleted because it's evident they know absolutely bugger all about our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 According to Longmuir (reported on the BBC): He explains: "The colt team would be unable to be promoted to a division above if that colt teams 'parent' team were participating in that division, nor could they participate in any cup competition where the 'parent' club were participating." In other words, the "colt" teams could end up playing in the so-called SPL 2, and might even end up in the proposed bottom 4-top 4 mini-league that would decide on who would end up in the SPL the following season. In other words, those colt teams could prevent other teams from getting to the SPL. The guy's a total a**hole. His proposal has no merit whatsoever. Complete and utter disgrace from those in charge of the game, once again. The fans want a bigger top league, and those in power fob us off by saying "That's not on the table". Why is it not on the table if it's clearly what the fans want? Also find it funny how guys like Tom English and Spiers are constantly telling us all that we, the fans, "don't understand the economics." We are constantly told that a 16 team league wouldn't work because clubs would be worse off. Firstly, I don't think this is true. Secondly, we have been putting the short term finances at the top of the agenda for years, and look where it's got us. Let's start thinking long term about this. The SPL as an organisation should be totally disbanded and the teams should all return to the SFL set up. The SPL has been nothing but an embarrassment since day 1. Who can forget SPL TV, Thistle-gate, Motherwell escaping relegation twice, Gretna, and of course Rangers. For me, it's no coincidence that we haven't qualified for a tournament since its inception. these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thing is, it doesn't work in Spain. Anyone who knows what's going on Spanish football will tell you that, yes, it works for Barca and Real but it certainly doesn't work for the other teams. Who wants to get promoted simply because you were 2nd best to someone's reserve team? And staying with Spain, they have a ridiculous number of teams in administration or major financial difficulty. The big 2 will always be fine but the rest are really struggling. So holiding this country up as bastion of league success is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thing is, it doesn't work in Spain. Anyone who knows what's going on Spanish football will tell you that, yes, it works for Barca and Real but it certainly doesn't work for the other teams. Who wants to get promoted simply because you were 2nd best to someone's reserve team? And staying with Spain, they have a ridiculous number of teams in administration or major financial difficulty. The big 2 will always be fine but the rest are really struggling. So holiding this country up as bastion of league success is a joke. The big two and the national team. That's what gets noticed. Nobody cares about the diddy teams over there just like nobody cares about the diddy teams here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I don't get the argument about not being able to sell season tickets. In the SPL just now, they don't know who 2 or 3 of their home games are going to be against. With the proposed structure, there will be 7 home games that are affected and I am sure you will have a good idea who those games will be against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I don't get the argument about not being able to sell season tickets. In the SPL just now, they don't know who 2 or 3 of their home games are going to be against. With the proposed structure, there will be 7 home games that are affected and I am sure you will have a good idea who those games will be against. Agreed. So there's a bit of uncertainty. You just have to fix the price to reflect that. None of us know whether we're buying a season ticket for a duff season of mid table mediocrity, a relegation battle or a title challenge. And I'd argue that that has a far bigger bearing on entertainment and value for money than which teams you'll be playing against. So I don't go along with that argument. I could live with the split 8-8-8 model. But absolute no to colt teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I guess it has already been decided that the current SPL split has been a miracle success. So what possible reason could we want to complicate this even more with 8-8-8. Should there not be some consultation with the SPL supporters/fans to get there thoughts on the current setup before heading into something even more complicated. Oh I forgot they did ask the fans before but our views were to stupid to save the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The SPL has been nothing but an embarrassment since day 1. Who can forget SPL TV, Thistle-gate, Motherwell escaping relegation twice, Gretna, and of course Rangers. For me, it's no coincidence that we haven't qualified for a tournament since its inception. 100% accurate. And don't forget the serial administrations at Dundee and Livi as well as Motherwell's shambles. The ridiculous debts at Hearts and |Dunfermline which have pushed those clubs close to demise; the unsustainable level of debt at Kilmarnock (relegation 2 years ago would have seen them in administration) and Aberdeen (reduced purely by Milne converting debt to shares). The SPL has been a shambles from day one yet the people running the majority of those clubs still behave like they are business geniuses. Reminds me of RBS and HBOS............ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watson Towers Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I could live with the split 8-8-8 model. But absolute no to colt teams. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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