David Stevenson Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Players have families to support plus mortgages, rent and other bills to pay. Save your anger for the Pars board and the SFL. Why would you blame the SFL? Dunfermline racked up most of their debt in the SPL and the lunacy of that failed project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 The amount of money could be substantial as Dunfermline, like us, started very well. Who can blame the players for losing heart and games when they are not getting their bonuses? These are hard times and they deserve sympathy rather than sarcastic comments. I agree, it's a tough call for the players and I sincerely hope that they get everything that they signed up for. You'll pardon me if I'm not overly sentimental at them not racking up a bonus on Saturday. Kni, they don't need my sympathy and I doubt that my comments would have aggravated their situation any; what they need is paid for doing the job they were hired to do. The irony is that if they are worried about paying their bills that is likely to have an affect on their mental state and that will in turn affect their physical performance at the very time when performance on the park would improve the clubs ability to pay and their ability to earn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 It must be the best part of ten years since they signed Greg Shields. For those that don't get the significance about a week or so later he had his contract ripped up along with the rest of their senior players. It was that or they would've faced administration. Always appeared to me to be verging on the immoral. Yorkston signing a player they couldn't have afforded and I assume leaving Shields worse off than he would've been at his previous club. Somehow Yorkston and his cohorts, through a combination of soft loans and Masterton tricks of the trade, have managed for a decade to continue with a wage structure they could ill afford. It's thus not surprising that a lot of us have little sympathy for their plight. Masterton morally should use the receipts for Saturday's game to pay their staff & players what is due them then face the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I feel sorry for the fans. The owners and club custodians have been taking lessons from Accounting of great firms like RBS in the early noughties, oh wait a minute who did Masterton work for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I don't have much sympathy for clubs like Dunfermline. They took Hardie, Buchanan and Boyle from us on wages I assume they couldn't afford to steal promotion from Raith who were competing within their means. Them having a bit of humble pie is well overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I feel sorry for the fans. The owners and club custodians have been taking lessons from Accounting of great firms like RBS in the early noughties, oh wait a minute who did Masterton work for? I'm not so sure he worked for that bank so much as he used it as his own private sweetie shop. I stand corrected by M'sieur Endell: it was BoS that was his sweetie shop. Edited March 4, 2013 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Does anybody think that if Dunfermline had beaten us on Saturday their players or fans would feel sympathy for our players or fans, having put a serious dent in our hopes of getting back to the SPL? Or would they instead think that they were back on track to get promotion themselves and to hell with any other club and their fans? Somehow, knowing how it works, I reckon that the second of those options would be nearer to the truth. Edited March 4, 2013 by Jaggernaut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I feel sorry for the fans. The owners and club custodians have been taking lessons from Accounting of great firms like RBS in the early noughties, oh wait a minute who did Masterton work for? Bank of Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) The last lot I have sympathy for is the fans. They enjoyed the gravy train of cup finals, europe, consistent top flight football and never muttered a word about how it was all being funded. I doubt they gave a shit about us when we were skint and we had to grubb it watching utter pish every week for years. **** them. Edited March 5, 2013 by MWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hansen Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 The last lot I have sympathy for is the fans. They enjoyed the gravy train of cup finals, europe, consistent top flight football and never muttered a word about how it was all being funded. I doubt they gave a shit about us when we were skint and we had to grubb it watching utter pish every week for years. **** them. Other than the fact I dont wish to see another team go bust,I dont care what happens to Dunfermline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's never nice to see a club potentially facing extinction especially because of the negligent practices of individuals. They've pursued an unsustainable model for years and are now reaping what they've sown. It's quite astounding the amount of "qualified" accountants who take charge of football clubs and subsequently run them into financial oblivion. One person I don't feel any sympathy for is that wee scrotum Joe Cardle. Wonder if he'll be pulling the billy big bollocks routine now that he has nae money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 The last lot I have sympathy for is the fans. They enjoyed the gravy train of cup finals, europe, consistent top flight football and never muttered a word about how it was all being funded. I doubt they gave a shit about us when we were skint and we had to grubb it watching utter pish every week for years. **** them. So if that had been us - you wouldn't have enjoyed it all? The cup finals, the top 6 finishes, the European jollies. You would have been the one shouting from the rooftops about financial prudence? Aye nae bother. Dunfermline fans enjoyed the good times just as any other set fans would. They were entitled to. The ordinary fan knew nothing about what was going on with the finances. They certainly weren't the only club who were "at it" during that period. Let's not forget that 15 years ago we were in a similar position - again due to severe financial mismanagement by people who were supposed to be custodians of the club. And in that 15 years since we are extremely fortunate that we didn't end up in the shit again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) So if that had been us - you wouldn't have enjoyed it all? The cup finals, the top 6 finishes, the European jollies. You would have been the one shouting from the rooftops about financial prudence? Aye nae bother. Dunfermline fans enjoyed the good times just as any other set fans would. They were entitled to. The ordinary fan knew nothing about what was going on with the finances. They certainly weren't the only club who were "at it" during that period. Let's not forget that 15 years ago we were in a similar position - again due to severe financial mismanagement by people who were supposed to be custodians of the club. And in that 15 years since we are extremely fortunate that we didn't end up in the shit again. It was widely revealed in the press at the time that Stevie Crawford had signed a 3 year deal on 5k a week. An alarm bell if there ever was, but they ignored that though and now they're the poor unsuspecting victims in all this. I've had to endure years of seeing my club attempting to live within their means and often as a result watching utter pish, they are getting their just deserts. I remember seeing Cardle posting pictures on twitter of him and his buddies drinking champagne in marbella whilst doing the old pose to the camera showing off their flash watches. Nae wonder they're skint if hes living like that. Edited March 5, 2013 by MWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It was widely revealed in the press at the time that Stevie Crawford had signed a 3 year deal on 5k a week. An alarm bell if there ever was, but they ignored that though and now they're the poor unsuspecting victims in all this. I've had to endure years of seeing my club attempting to live within their means and often as a result watching utter pish, they are getting their just deserts. I remember seeing Cardle posting pictures on twitter of him and his buddies drinking champagne in marbella whilst doing the old pose to the camera showing off their flash watches. Nae wonder they're skint if hes living like that. I remember being at a Pars v Jags game in the SPL (a 4-1 defeat) when the stadium announcer was giving it laldy announcing the goalscorer as 'Scotland's top striker Stevie Crawford' I feel for the Pars supporters but I have absolutely no sympathy for the club. I have even less sympathy for Hearts (or their supporters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Were the Dunfermline fans supposed to demand the club not pay those types of wages? Or were they meant to stop going because they were being too successful in relation to the money the club made? How about this: We don't get promoted this season. Jackie McNamara comes in for Chris Erskine to take him up to United. However, our board convince him to stay by increasing his wages by an undisclosed amount. What should we as Thistle fans do in that situation? Demand a full audit to see if we can afford said wages or stop going to Firhill in protest? More than likely what's going to happen, regardless of promotion, is that some other team will offer him double/treble what he's on now and he will go (pretty much what happened with McNamara, really); and everyone will be upset we've lost him, not that we're such a fiscally prudent, well run club. Jags fans scorning the Dunfermline fans is rather like shipwreck survivors scorning the rest for drowning. I don't think we should be wishing them ill will. At the very least, they're not travelling away from Fife to support the Old Firm, like everyone else. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) To an extent MWM is right. Their fans did go along for the ride and it's now coming back to haunt them. Rough with the smooth and all that. Still feel sympathy for their fans. It's always a dilemma when you receive soft loans from a supposed mega rich fan. Masterton is the panto style villain just now but Yorkston was the guy who could've tightened the reins years ago. Surely he must have realised the danger on relying on a dodgy ex banker? edited to add I hear Masterton is resigning. Edited March 5, 2013 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It was widely revealed in the press at the time that Stevie Crawford had signed a 3 year deal on 5k a week. An alarm bell if there ever was, but they ignored that though and now they're the poor unsuspecting victims in all this. I've had to endure years of seeing my club attempting to live within their means and often as a result watching utter pish, they are getting their just deserts. I remember seeing Cardle posting pictures on twitter of him and his buddies drinking champagne in marbella whilst doing the old pose to the camera showing off their flash watches. Nae wonder they're skint if hes living like that. Couldn't give a toss about Cardle and Crawford. I was talking about the fans. These 2 dobbers are irrelevant. As a fan of a small - medium Scottish football club, can you blame Pars fans for enjoying the good times? They are getting found out now financially, just as we did in 97. Our problems in 97/98 were also brought about by over spending, on the ground and on players. Take a look at some of the transfer fees we paid under Lambie, some serious money getting banded about which we simply didn't have. Were you complaining when we were regularly taking points off the old firm in the 90s? I bet you weren't. We as Thistle fans have absolutely no right to get on our high horse - we were at it before anyone else. I also don't think that some fans realise how close we were to Save The Jags mark 2 about 3/4 years ago. Had it not been for the sale of Harkins and Twaddle we would have been in serious trouble once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 From the tone of a few posts on here there should never be anything but sympathy for fans of teams that have consistently lived beyond their means for years on end. Anything goes, spend spend spend. Enjoy all the gloating as you lord it over us for years on end, and then we'll sympathise when the car crash happens and your club has to face financial reality. I wonder where the sympathy should end. Maybe we should allow them to win the league, so that they can get their economic situation back in order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 From the tone of a few posts on here there should never be anything but sympathy for fans of teams that have consistently lived beyond their means for years on end. Anything goes, spend spend spend. Enjoy all the gloating as you lord it over us for years on end, and then we'll sympathise when the car crash happens and your club has to face financial reality. I wonder where the sympathy should end. Maybe we should allow them to win the league, so that they can get their economic situation back in order? So fans of PTFC never did any gloating in the 90s when we beat other teams? Come on, all fans gloat, we've all done it and it's part of football. Anyone who gets personally offended by other teams fans gloating should probably start looking for a spot in an allotment somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Anyone who gets personally offended by other teams fans gloating should probably start looking for a spot in an allotment somewhere. Yes, but people in glasshouses..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blutarsky Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Yes, but people in glasshouses..... ...shouldn't have baths. In other news, Masterton has stepped down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoncordiner Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Speculating to accumulate is a fundamental part of business. The businesses that take the best calculated risks prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 We were on the brink because of upgrades to the ground and simply playing by the rules. The upgrade to the main stand, new floodlights, undersoil heating, the JH and then again later the north stand. Never at at any time were our woes down to extravagant spending on the squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Earl of Hathaway Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Speculating to accumulate is a fundamental part of business. The businesses that take the best calculated risks prevail. And Dunfermline like Livingston, Dundee etc, clearly took some very poorly calculated risks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Ian_mac is maybe correct regarding spending on players prior to Save the Jags, but the spending on the ground was imposed on us by SPL requirements. As far as how I feel about Dunfermline supporters, there appear to be less and less that care themselves, going by their recent attendances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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