jlsarmy Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 What exactly are the issues and problems? Most people were saying that Gallacher brought more confidence than Fox, that Mair had brought solidity and experience to the central defence, that we now had a real gem in midfield in Fraser, that Bauben was going to be a class act, that Erskine would light up the side again….. All these guys started today, and we still haven't won; we've just shipped another 4 goals from a team that put 5 past us not so long ago. Genuine question: what do people think are the issues and problems? just back from Fir Park after another capitulation,game nearly won ,team playing well and then we try and play a containing game with 15 mins to go ( same as the Killie,Ross County,Hibs game to name but a few),management don't seem to learning from their previous mistakes, the only sub that had to be made was Doolan for Taylor,at the level that we're playing at don't think we're good enough to invite teams onto us. When we attacked Motherwell thought McManus ,Hamill etc who are all experienced defenders didn't look comfortable at all with Higgy,Erskine etc running at them. If you invite players like McFadden etc to attack they're always going to create something,I think it's now time for Archie to go for it our best players are all in the final 1/3 rd of the pitch if we lose two goals then we'll score three , need to start winning games quickly and the previous system/ formation hasn't worked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 just back from Fir Park after another capitulation,game nearly won ,team playing well and then we try and play a containing game with 15 mins to go ( same as the Killie,Ross County,Hibs game to name but a few),management don't seem to learning from their previous mistakes, the only sub that had to be made was Doolan for Taylor,at the level that we're playing at don't think we're good enough to invite teams onto us. When we attacked Motherwell thought McManus ,Hamill etc who are all experienced defenders didn't look comfortable at all with Higgy,Erskine etc running at them. If you invite players like McFadden etc to attack they're always going to create something,I think it's now time for Archie to go for it our best players are all in the final 1/3 rd of the pitch if we lose two goals then we'll score three , need to start winning games quickly and the previous system/ formation hasn't worked That's the first post that I've seen that actually points to a possible reason for us losing it, other than simply moaning about Elliott and Craigen. So it looks like we tried to see the game out for the final 15 min, instead of attacking as the best form of defence But I'd be surprised if Elliott was expected to play a containing game. If that was Archie's plan, then surely Muirhead should have been the one to come on. As it is, is sounds as if we turned a decent attacking display into another defensive shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 just back from Fir Park after another capitulation,game nearly won ,team playing well and then we try and play a containing game with 15 mins to go ( same as the Killie,Ross County,Hibs game to name but a few),management don't seem to learning from their previous mistakes, the only sub that had to be made was Doolan for Taylor,at the level that we're playing at don't think we're good enough to invite teams onto us. When we attacked Motherwell thought McManus ,Hamill etc who are all experienced defenders didn't look comfortable at all with Higgy,Erskine etc running at them. If you invite players like McFadden etc to attack they're always going to create something,I think it's now time for Archie to go for it our best players are all in the final 1/3 rd of the pitch if we lose two goals then we'll score three , need to start winning games quickly and the previous system/ formation hasn't worked I've run out of likes, but this is entirely correct: the manager's choice is to try and play to keep up with the big boys, by squeezing out opposition attacks, but the best players we have are all attacking players. It makes more sense to let them off the leash and encourage them to create scoring opportunities and to score right from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partick75 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 The only sub that was correct today was Taylor for Doolan. I love Archie but for god sake son, we were cruising with Higgy, and Erskine running the Motherwell defence ragged, then he takes them off?. The management have to carry the can for this defeat today, as I am positive we would have taken at least a point if it was not for the change in personel. I also thought we should have had a stonewall penalty when the ball struck the Motherwell players hand in the box in the second half. On another note I don't fancy McMillan one bit he cannot mark looks a liability at the back Archie needs to strengthen here if we stay in the SPFL, also need a tall bruiser centre half who can attack and header a ball from defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted February 15, 2014 Members Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Anyone seen much of Moncur yet? If he's a defensive midfielder, perhaps he would be a better option to have on the bench rather than 3 attacking mids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westertonjagfan Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 2nd half was much better today. First half dire big lump of the ball up the park nonsense. 2nd half we were miles better, playing a lot of good passing football. The sight of our best players belting towards their goal with the Jags fan going mad was great. Then the daft substitutions and everything changed. Higgy and Erskine, with some great play from ATS, were tearing Motherwell apart. After the subs, no attacking and Motherwell took their chances. Poor management decision, plain and simple, in my view. That game was there to be won by doing what we're good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 St Mirren Ross C and Killie lost so I suppose that helps - cup half full? Newsflash - so did we, AGAIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 It's obviously impossible to say what would have happened if the subs hadn't been made, but it sure as hell wouldn't have been any worse leaving it as it was. We were playing well, looking dangerous & easily could have scored another goal in the remainder of the match. If Erskine/Higgy were being brought off, it should have resulted in a different formation with Muirhead coming in to the team to add more height & add another body in midfield. Replacing the apparently fit & on form Erskine made no sense. Replacing Higgy with Craigen also made no sense, Higgy was doing well & could easily have finished the match. It was blindingly obvious that the team should have been left as it was or we went to tighten up. The changes totally ruined any chance we had of scoring which ultimately led to us conceding 2. To keep the attacking threat, but add a little more steel, I would have brought Muirhead on for Buaben after going 3-2 up. Leaving us with options on the counter. Fair enough Taylor going off, he hadn't done much & looked tired. Then re-evaluate the situation at 85mins & then maybe bring on Elliott or Craigen, to break-up the attacking play Motherwell would undoubtedly have been having, waste a little time & add some fresh legs for the final 8/9mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Ender Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Posted in the match thread before I saw this one but my view is that our substitutions killed us today, Taylor and Erskine could have waited another 5 minutes whilst Kalum didn't need to be substituted. The one substitution that was crying out was O'Donell for McMillan. A bit of management savvy was needed today to see the game through, it's not just this players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 O'Donnell for McMillan was crying out to be made while we were losing, when we went ahead it wouldn't have made much sense. Muirhead for McMillan would have been a better option at that stage, extra height to deal with crosses to the back post (RB area) where both goals came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Archie saying on the OS that the subs made were because of injuries. Have to say I didn't notice Erskine or Higgy carrying injuries at the time they were subbed but I ain't no physio Edited February 15, 2014 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 There was no tactical advantage in those subs at all, they were all like-for-like changes that did nothing to sure up the game. Any sensible manager would have taken off Bannigan when he got booked with 10mins to go, as last time it happened he was sent off. Are you serious take of the best player on the park and the one that fed Higginbottom and Erskine all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Archie saying on the OS that the subs made were because of injuries. Have to say I didn't notice Erskine or Higgy carrying injuries at the time they were subbed but I ain't no physio He's talking shit to cover his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 He's talking shit to cover his back. no thats just you again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 No problem with Taylor or Erskine but would question Higginbottom since he got past half time and looked almost unplayable in the second half it seemed odd he would be hooked?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The problem wasn't with who was put on but who was taken off. At 3-2 I felt we were going to go on and score more, Higgy had a chance for his hat trick and we were still on top. Erskine and him were waltzing past the Motherwell defence just about every time they go the ball and then they get subbed? Really bad decisions and in my opinion cost us the game as the momentum swung in their favour. We aren't good enough defensively to sit back and it's about time the manager realises this, everybody else does. And what was McMillan doing marking McManus anyway? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veejag Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Wasn't there yesterday but Archie said players had taken knocks and that's why they were subbed. Edited February 16, 2014 by Veejag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Wasn't there yesterday but Archie said players had taken knocks and that's why they were subbed. He's talking pish because he knows he blew it. Higgy and Erskine were fine for another 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 If all the posters on here were the collective manager and could have decided which were the right substitutions to make, Motherwell would still have been too strong for us! That's why they are sitting 3rd in the league and we're eight places below them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 If all the posters on here were the collective manager and could have decided which were the right substitutions to make, Motherwell would still have been too strong for us! That's why they are sitting 3rd in the league and we're eight places below them. We're 8 places below them due to 11 points thrown away in last 5 minutes of games & them turning results around in the last 5 minutes of games. That's because they're stronger/fitter right? What does that tell you about the coaching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekea Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 He's talking pish because he knows he blew it. Higgy and Erskine were fine for another 5 minutes. Didn't think I would get to this stage with Archie but he threw the game by taking off our best players and then goes on to blame them in the after match reaction on the official web-site ..he is the one who is naive! He should forget trying to keep Doolan and co happy giving them game time...we need the points and that comes first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's because they're stronger/fitter right? That's the only difference between football players is it? So why do Motherwell pay so much more for their players than us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Higgy and Erskine were fine for another 5 minutes. You on close personal terms with those two players are you? Did they text you after the match to tell you how much longer they could last? F**king armchair experts. Tell us all the score for next week, you omniscient idiot. Edited February 16, 2014 by peagreenboy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Didn't think I would get to this stage with Archie but he threw the game by taking off our best players and then goes on to blame them in the after match reaction on the official web-site ..he is the one who is naive! He should forget trying to keep Doolan and co happy giving them game time...we need the points and that comes first! The words you string together are so stupid they barely make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's the only difference between football players is it? So why do Motherwell pay so much more for their players than us? So because you pay more for players that equals better? Someone should tell Falkirk they shouldn't be challenging Dundee as their players are nowhere near on the same money. Just wish someone had told the part time teams when we were in the 2nd Div that we were full time & they shouldn't be on the same pitch as us. It's not all about money. If it was then Aberdeen would've been 3rd every year behind the old firm for past 20 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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