Fearchar Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Imagine the scene: they drape a bright yellow and red shirt on you, top it off with other dazling accoutrements and send you to run out on to a very broad, flat lawn surrounded by thousands of spectators. "He doesn't hide," they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 It's my bad, certainly no dummy throwing, going in a huff or screaming abuse on my part, but it can be quite frustrating reading someone's opinion, when they quite clearly don't understand the game of football. I'm not really sure of the relevance of your second paragraph, you'll need to expand on it. Slightly arrogant in my opinion ... Only you understand football a view decided by eh you ! It's perfectly acceptable to criticise the team , manager or players everyone here does it its just that critically accentuating the positive is deemed ok but pointing out faults or mistakes is deemed unacceptable There were good points on Saturday but also bad points it's fair and reasonable to mention both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Slightly arrogant in my opinion ... Only you understand football a view decided by eh you ! It's perfectly acceptable to criticise the team , manager or players everyone here does it its just that critically accentuating the positive is deemed ok but pointing out faults or mistakes is deemed unacceptable There were good points on Saturday but also bad points it's fair and reasonable to mention both I didn't say I an the only person who understands football. It is perfectly acceptable to criticise the team. Pointing out mistakes isn't deemed unacceptable. However, coming on here with an agenda to specifically put down certain players, I find tedious. I can only imagine they don't discuss said players' attributes or positive influence in the team because they don't understand the game... Or do you think they do understand the game, and choose not to mention them, because they are trolling a specific agenda? Edited December 23, 2014 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfaelivi Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 A funny thing about Saturday....... I am usually in quite early and watch closely the bit of the warm up where one of our coaches throws the ball up and the guys line up to have a go at getting it past the keeper ie shootin' in! Anyway I've said quite often to friends how BAD we are at hitting the target - despite having all the time in the world most balls seem to be blazed over the bar or hit at the goalkeeper ( with more of the former than the latter) On Saturday, though, whether I was imagining it or not, we seemed to be keeping the ball down better and at least hitting the target - better striking of the ball all round. How ironic, then, that we should have had chances in the game and not even worked the goalie. When we played ICT at home I remember watching them doing the same exercise ( supervised by Russell Latapy a notably good striker in his day). They were soooo much better than us at it. Your comments would be appreciated because surely hitting the target should be something you can improve on and there should be some sort of a sense of shame attached to missing it?!? I used to play golf quite well and must have hit millions of practice shots in my time and, yes, you DO get better with practice. Was it Lee Trevino who said "the more I practice the luckier I get". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I didn't say I an the only person who understands football. It is perfectly acceptable to criticise the team. Pointing out mistakes isn't deemed unacceptable. However, coming on here with an agenda to specifically put down certain players, I find tedious. I can only imagine they don't discuss said players' attributes or positive influence in the team because they don't understand the game... Or do you think they do understand the game, and choose not to mention them, because they are trolling a specific agenda? Personally I would ban the word troll it's becoming meaningless Football fans always have players they praise too much or criticise too often that's life and part of the fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Aye, like open a twitter account and give retweets like Cragsy, Conrad and Christie? Sorry Hankey, you have completely lost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Personally I would ban the word troll it's becoming meaningless Football fans always have players they praise too much or criticise too often that's life and part of the fun So you can't answer my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 A funny thing about Saturday....... I am usually in quite early and watch closely the bit of the warm up where one of our coaches throws the ball up and the guys line up to have a go at getting it past the keeper ie shootin' in! Anyway I've said quite often to friends how BAD we are at hitting the target - despite having all the time in the world most balls seem to be blazed over the bar or hit at the goalkeeper ( with more of the former than the latter) On Saturday, though, whether I was imagining it or not, we seemed to be keeping the ball down better and at least hitting the target - better striking of the ball all round. How ironic, then, that we should have had chances in the game and not even worked the goalie. When we played ICT at home I remember watching them doing the same exercise ( supervised by Russell Latapy a notably good striker in his day). They were soooo much better than us at it. Your comments would be appreciated because surely hitting the target should be something you can improve on and there should be some sort of a sense of shame attached to missing it?!? I used to play golf quite well and must have hit millions of practice shots in my time and, yes, you DO get better with practice. Was it Lee Trevino who said "the more I practice the luckier I get". I think there is some good points here.I watch from the NS and it's quite amazing how many times in a warm up teams never once get the ball in the net. This may sound daft but I've always thought part of the warm up in shooting practice should be done without the goalkeeper so that the player simply gets used to hitting the target instinctively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wonder what the likes of Seabourne and Stevenson said to Balatoni in the dressing room after the game. Probably a lot worse than anything written on here. Also any argument about wages, experience or age are all negated with the success of Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wonder what the likes of Seabourne and Stevenson said to Balatoni in the dressing room after the game. Probably a lot worse than anything written on here. Also any argument about wages, experience or age are all negated with the success of Hamilton. So are you saying that Balatoni shouldn't have tried to prevent the cross into the box? If it had went out for a corner, would you have cursed him for conceding a corner? What success? The season hadn't finished yet. And they are only negated at your request. You don't get to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Also any argument about wages, experience or age are all negated with the success of Hamilton. Hamilton have had an excellent start, but it's far from certain they'll keep it up. County impressed massively in their first season up- they've been going backwards ever since. I'll settle for year-on-year improvement and consolidation, and I think we're getting that. Hamilton have also raked in something like 5 million in transfer fees over the past few years, so presumably can afford decent wages. Most importantly, they're reaping the benefit of an excellent mature youth set up. Ours is still in its infancy, hopefully in a while we can reap this benefit too. The odd exception does not negate the main point, anyway. No one has won the league outside of the old firm for something like 30 years. The reason for this is resources, nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wonder what the likes of Seabourne and Stevenson said to Balatoni in the dressing room after the game. Probably a lot worse than anything written on here. Also any argument about wages, experience or age are all negated with the success of Hamilton. If you watch the highlights back, there was about 3 mistakes that led to the Dundee goal and if SOD stops the cross coming in there is no goal but he never closed down his man , that and the fact that Conrad was out of position ,he was actually facing his own goal when he sliced the ball into the net. IMO O'Donnell just as culpable as Balatoni for the goal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If you watch the highlights back, there was about 3 mistakes that led to the Dundee goal and if SOD stops the cross coming in there is no goal but he never closed down his man , that and the fact that Conrad was out of position ,he was actually facing his own goal when he sliced the ball into the net. IMO O'Donnell just as culpable as Balatoni for the goal. I'd rather have him attempting to deflect it out the park than just letting the boy have a free cross. It came off him and went in, such is life. The day our defenders don't make an attempt to block a cross in the final moments of a game is the day we know we have real issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If you watch the highlights back, there was about 3 mistakes that led to the Dundee goal and if SOD stops the cross coming in there is no goal but he never closed down his man , that and the fact that Conrad was out of position ,he was actually facing his own goal when he sliced the ball into the net. IMO O'Donnell just as culpable as Balatoni for the goal. I thought at the time that Conrad should have been far more positive in attacking the high ball...he then got on the wrong side of the attacker causing O'Donnell to move inside to cover...that gave Roberts a bit of space and I think Conrad was a bit unfortunate to deflect it in. O'Donnell on occasion can be a bit guilty of letting crosses get in but I don't think that he was anywhere near as culpable as Balatoni for the goal on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Losing the late goal on Saturday was obviously hard to take for everybody but I thought we did reasonably well throughout the game and it was pleasing to see that we look like a much better team than Dundee. If I had to apportion blame I wouldn't be looking to the defence for the loss of the two points through the late goal (yes, it was avoidable) but more so the attack, for not putting the game to bed earlier. We had more than enough chances and more than enough of the ball in the last third to create more chances to win that game twice over. I thought we defended very well and controlled large amounts of possession throughout the game but we just lacked creativity in the final third. Again. I thought one thing that did make a bit of a difference was dropping Craigen back and pushing Fraser forward later in the second half. We certainly looked a bit more of a threat after that but still weren't productive enough. Bannigan was very good at full back although we missed him in the middle of the park and I thought the rest of the defence played relatively well. How Abdul Osman didn't get man of the match is beyond me. He didn't put a foot wrong in the first half, winning every 50/50 tackle and totally stole the show as far as I was concerned. Wasn't as effective in second half but still better than most. The abuse Craigen is receiving these days is now beyond a joke. He didn't have a great game but people seem to be desperate for him to make a mistake so they can get on his back. I watched Higgy give the ball away three times in a row where he received only a couple of quiet groans. Craigen does it once and folk are up out their seats screaming at the boy. I've said it before - James Craigen is never going to be the world's best footballer but his tireless running allied with his hunger and desire are the reasons the manager puts him in the team in the first place. He never hides (despite the abuse he has to take) and you could see what it meant to him to score on Saturday. If I were picking my best Thistle eleven he probably wouldn't be in it but if all the players put in the same amount of effort in as he does I'd be very happy. Christie Elliott seems to be a more accepted figure these days. It used to be "Craigen and Elliott" but seems that James is on his own now. Elliott's defensive work is why he is in the team. He does break a lot of opposition attacks down and shows fantastic effort, I just get frustrated with him when he can't do the simple things right when we are going forward. It's almost as if he is playing for the team that doesn't have the ball at the time. He is another though whose endeavour cannot be faulted. Ryan Stevenson has improved over the last few weeks - he has upped his work rate and seems to be winning the fans over but I would still like to see more. It seems to come in fits and starts and I was watching him walking around in parts of the game while others were running past him. Surely he is fit by now? For me, he is not a striker. He doesn't make the natural runs a striker does, he doesn't get in the positions a striker does and he doesn't link up the way a striker does. He will get some goals playing up front but not as many as a decent striker will. I think this is what we are desperately lacking. It was no coincidence that when Lyle Taylor came to the club last season we started playing better. Although he wasn't as prolific a goalscorer for as us some may think, other players flourished around him and confidence grew (look at Higgy for example). I don't think Doolan is the man for that and I certainly don't think Stevenson is either. Problem is, where do we get one? I would have possibly liked to have seen Lawless or McDaid come on to help try and get the second goal but, from what Archie has said, he seems to have thought we were comfortable (which we were) and perhaps didn't want to disrupt this unnecessarily. It's amazing the difference one untidy own goal makes. This forum would have been full of people raving about all the good performances on Saturday had we held out but instead, some people have to find their scapegoats and pin all the blame on them, whether it be Archie, Craigen or even Jaggy McBee. i still honestly believe that chris erskine was as much to credit for our turn around in fortune in January as Lyle Taylor - I think both made a huge contribution to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 A funny thing about Saturday....... I am usually in quite early and watch closely the bit of the warm up where one of our coaches throws the ball up and the guys line up to have a go at getting it past the keeper ie shootin' in! Anyway I've said quite often to friends how BAD we are at hitting the target - despite having all the time in the world most balls seem to be blazed over the bar or hit at the goalkeeper ( with more of the former than the latter) On Saturday, though, whether I was imagining it or not, we seemed to be keeping the ball down better and at least hitting the target - better striking of the ball all round. How ironic, then, that we should have had chances in the game and not even worked the goalie. When we played ICT at home I remember watching them doing the same exercise ( supervised by Russell Latapy a notably good striker in his day). They were soooo much better than us at it. Your comments would be appreciated because surely hitting the target should be something you can improve on and there should be some sort of a sense of shame attached to missing it?!? I used to play golf quite well and must have hit millions of practice shots in my time and, yes, you DO get better with practice. Was it Lee Trevino who said "the more I practice the luckier I get". Pretty sure it was Gary Player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted December 23, 2014 Members Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Was it Lee Trevino who said "the more I practice the luckier I get". Gary Player was it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 i still honestly believe that chris erskine was as much to credit for our turn around in fortune in January as Lyle Taylor - I think both made a huge contribution to that Agree, with Lyle Taylor and the above, but also think Paul Gallagher had a massive impact coming into the team last January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Agree, with Lyle Taylor and the above, but also think Paul Gallagher had a massive impact coming into the team last January. good point very much agree. Gallacher IMO is one of our most underrated players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted December 23, 2014 Members Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wonder what the likes of Seabourne and Stevenson said to Balatoni in the dressing room after the game. Probably a lot worse than anything written on here. Probably depends on what you mean by 'worse'. I'd imagine as senior professionals at a football club that have to rely on the younger guys to help them achieve any win bonus due, they'll have told him to just put it out of his mind and concentrate on the next game. Defenders are going to score og's at some point of their career no matter how good or how old they are. The real unfortunate thing that I don't think anyone else has mentioned so far is, that up until that point Conrad was having a good game. But it's so true what they so, at a higher level, one mistake can be punished and Conrad was well punished there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb1876 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Absolutely Willjag, I'd imagine the other players said to him it's just one of those things! Head up and onto the next game for another victory. Training on the other hand - I bet he's getting a lot of stick for it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Amazing, some folk want to drone on about this, especially pilloring the usual suspects. I hope to god I never have the misfortune of sitting or standing beside some of the supporters ( sic ) on here. One guy I recently had to endure slagged of bannigan for the whole game! Totally clueless. I don't have a problem with thoughtful criticism, but does it have to be so personal? I remain of the view this is a good time to be a jags fan. Hopefully we will continue to improve. Glass half full 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted December 23, 2014 Members Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Absolutely Willjag, I'd imagine the other players said to him it's just one of those things! Head up and onto the next game for another victory. Training on the other hand - I bet he's getting a lot of stick for it! For sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I don't know about the nurturing environment of professional football but I used to play in an amateur league and if you made a mistake like Balatoni did on Saturday you'd get properly slaughtered. If by chance Balatoni does read this then it's nothing he hasn't heard before. Mainly because it's not his first mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I'm not a big fan of Conrad Balatoni, nevertheless, he is getting picked on over this one, it's a bit like having a pop at the player who misses the last penalty in a shoot out and holding him responsible for losing the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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