Archie Must Go

[Willjag]

and strengthen the squad for next season as soon as possible.

 

Realistically the Club can anticipate much better gate receipts next season. Hearts back in the division and possibly Rangers. We can expect 2 home games against Celtic and Aberdeen as opposed to one last season. Only 1 pre-split home games against Ross and Hamilton will also be a bonus. I think Liam Lindsay is ready for the next step. Perhaps not a first choice starter for the 1st team, but definitely good enough as first choice backup. Scully too could be good enough to step up to the next stage. So, as if looks likely we lose Scott and Conrad, I think we already have adequate replacements at the Club for this pair who, if we are being honest, were not always first choice in the season just passed.

 

Priority would be in getting replacements for SOD and Higgy if they do decide the time is right to move on and trying to negotiate the permanent signing of Lyle Taylor. If Jerome Tesselar wanted to stay in this Country, I'd like to see us get him in to replace SOD. Failing that, I think Willie Dyer and Gary Irvine are out of contract at Dundee. Maybe worth looking at one of them?

[Yellow & Redneck]

Over the past few season Archie has been pretty happy to wait and see who becomes available. He has always stated that any player he brings in has to be better than what we currently have, and I am sure he will do the same this season, as for the most part, that tactic has worked rather well.

On the other hand, he has been prone to the odd panic signing when the deadline gets close, and that usually means terminating their contract six months later. But I’m pretty sure he has at least an idea of what he wants.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Got to say that this off season and next year will probably be the toughest for Archie. Losing a few key players while having your budget reduced and the teams being promoted will probably be quite strong. I have faith though he can do it but i reckon we will be battling down the bottom with the likes of Hamilton, Ross County, Killie and maybe one other.

 

I also wonder what Archie's budget is based on. Is it Motherwell staying up or rangers getting promoted. Doubt we would go ahead and assume rangers coming but if they do maybe a chance that his budget could be increased if it does happen.

[Dick Dastardly]

What are the odds on Erskine to replace Higgy ?

[ThickAsThieves]

Tesselaar is a left-back who can play centre-back.

[jags on tour]

What are the odds on Erskine to replace Higgy ?

 

I doubt it, Erskine won quite a few of their end of season awards and is he not still contracted for another season?

[yoda-jag]

i hope a mod reprimands the trouble making mischievous o.p. and changes what is a misleading and contentious thread title. simply unacceptable

 

no chance of the bridge returning this summer dd, been a regular for them this season and has another year on his contract.

 

intense fitness regime ahead for players like lindsay, mcdaid, henry, wilson and others this summer, be excellent if we are this time next year reflecting on their positive contributions and making the step up to regular squad and when called upon first team starters.

 

archie has to, and i believe will, find players to replace sod, balatoni, higgy, fox, (and taylor if permanent transfer doesn't occur) either from within or as new signings ..... my guess is most straight replacements will be new to the club, with the youngsters encouraged to, and given opportunity to challenge for and make positions theirs when given such appearances.

 

players like bre, keenan, craigen and other fringe players released more likely to be replaced with development squad players, going by budget hints and nods and winks.

 

away crowds will be up next season no matter who the twelfth diddy club is, but be even better if home support numbers climb back up, if they do it'll mean we are likely doing better than this season, and i'll take that right now if that's the case.

[Harry Wragg]

Of all the players that are "iffys" on re-signing the only one I'd miss is SOD, the others haven't exactly shone like beacons this season , Foxy is getting above himself now with comments about getting "his" Scotland place back, i wouldn't rate him as an international goalkeeper, he's still not good on cross balls , Balatoni has been a bit of a bombscare more times than need be , Higgy is not the same player as he was the previous season and Lyle Taylor has missed far more "sitters" than he's scored, so new blood is needed and will be a refreshment to the team IMO.

[topcat]

With the recent Club statements regarding the JHS and the desire to make that extra step to a new level I think we will all be left wondering if we don,t get at least one really positive enspiring signing or resigning before the start of the season.

[Richard Nixon]

With the continual reports of how ridiculously poor the club is, I'm not sure how we can expect much more from next season except for a basement battle and a fond look back at this season just finished as a halcyon one.

[Dark Passenger]

I haven't read many reports of the club being 'ridiculously poor', certainly not 'continual' ones. Relative to what, exactly?

[La Scimmia Rossa]

Jesus wept. The same old pish and the season is only over two days.

[Big Col]

Couple of players at St Mirren (Naismith and McGinn) that would be good additions to our squad. Shouldn't be too difficult to get them.

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Couple of players at St Mirren (Naismith and McGinn) that would be good additions to our squad.

 

Just don't let McGinn know we're targeting him. I reckon that would be a trifle insensitive.

[Third Lanark]

Couple of players at St Mirren (Naismith and McGinn) that would be good additions to our squad. Shouldn't be too difficult to get them.

pretty sure Dundee are keen on signing McGinn as well. Can't remember the ages but I think at mirren may be entitled to compensation because of their age

[Jumps]

There is zero chance of us signing John McGinn. Honestly, suggestions like that make me wonder about this forum.

[Big Col]

Why can't we sign him?

[ThickAsThieves]

Would cost a fairly pricey development fee. It's a non-starter.

[Big Col]

Well we won't know until we ask. No harm in enquiring.

[themadozjag]

Hey Williejag, away an bile yer heid ya numpty! Archie has done a good job considering his limited financial availability.

Who is there that could come to the club and do any better?

Other Clubs have been switching Managers Willy Nilly all through the season just passed and have they improved any?

No I didn't think so!

Leave Archie alone and back him for next season and pull your head in.

[Richard Nixon]

I haven't read many reports of the club being 'ridiculously poor', certainly not 'continual' ones. Relative to what, exactly?

 

Our club is poor relatively to the other teams in the league in which we play, obviously. Does that really have to be pointed out? Oh well, here goes then.

 

We have the second lowest average attendance this season, and as Juan Carlos pointed out in another thread, it is down hugely this season compared to last. Our average attendance was 3516, Hamilton's was 2912. (http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premier-league-2013-2014/1/)

 

Hamilton of course have an advantage over us: their superb youth system which earns them money - Tony Andreu to Norwich for an apparent million pound fee, for example, as well as Stephen Hendrie signing a pre-contract with West Ham, which presumably will also net the Accies compensation.

 

Consequently, we are second bottom this season when it comes to how much we actually pay our players. Here is the list of average annual pay of the 2014 Premiership clubs from STV - (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/1321105-celtics-average-wage-bill-is-25-times-higher-than-ross-countys/)

 

Celtic - £901,943

Aberdeen - £140,699

Hibernian - £102,199

Dundee United - £91,538

St Mirren - £78,447

Kilmarnock - £74,981

St Johnstone - £67,999

Motherwell - £67,639

Hearts - £63,999

Inverness CT - £53,690

Partick Thistle - £45,498

Ross County - £36,000

 

Many posters on this forum have commented on different occasions that Ross County players often receive other benefits in addition to their wages - rent-free accommodation for example - which if true, would feasibly place us at the bottom of this list.

 

With the addition of Hearts and possibly Rangers next season, out average attendance may rise, but that certainly won't mean our wage bill will rise. We've had this confirmed already by Ian Maxwell in the Evening Times - "We are now at a point where there is a plateau because everybody's wages can't keep going up and up." (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/partick-thistle/jags-will-stick-to-firhill-budget-in-summer-market-207341n.126457702)

 

Every year, the Guardian newspaper publishes a review of the annual English Premier League accounts; studying these, it becomes obvious that on the whole, teams generally finish in the order of their wage bills. The economist Stefan Szymanski drew the same conclusion in the book Soccernomics - "In short, the more you pay your players in wages, the higher you will finish."

 

Obviously there are aberrations - Hearts because of their financial difficulties, St Mirren dropping out because of poor managerial decisions, Inverness finishing higher, etc. - but it's impossible to escape the fact that we are punching above our weight. All things considered, finishing eighth was a superb achievement that exposes the idiocy of those people who clamoured for Archibald to be sacked all season.

 

Three of our first team have been offered new deals and our manager expects them to leave regardless; Conrad Balatoni, Scott Fox, and Kallum Higginbotham. Archibald confirmed this to the BBC - "Those three look like they'll be moving on." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32861042)

 

What are we to make of this? That these players can get paid more elsewhere. Looking at the evidence it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It also seems that some of our players obviously feel that Thistle aren't going to go any higher - this quote from Scott Fox in the Evening Times clearly indicates that - "They have offered me stuff, but I want to go and challenge myself, push at a high level and try and win trophies. The top half of this league would be a step up." (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/partick-thistle/scott-fox-ready-to-call-time-on-partick-thistle-spell-207926n.126994598)

 

We're losing a good chunk of our team and we do not have the money to replace it. That's not scaremongering, it's a simple statement of fact. I just want to make sure no-one's being an ostrich about it. Keep dreaming about signing players from Kilmarnock or Dundee United though, guys! Players who are earning double or treble the money we can offer them!

 

Jesus wept. The same old pish and the season is only over two days.

 

You know what's going to be pish? When people start expecting us to be top six next season, or do better than the eighth we managed this season.

 

I hope we can do as well again next season. But I won't be surprised if we're battling it out at the bottom. What's sad is the inevitable arguments that will be raging on this forum yet again - when the same shower will reappear demanding that our manager get sacked, because of pie-in-the-sky dreams of what we're supposed to accomplish.

[Jag]

Our club is poor relatively to the other teams in the league in which we play, obviously. Does that really have to be pointed out? Oh well, here goes then.

 

We have the second lowest average attendance this season, and as Juan Carlos pointed out in another thread, it is down hugely this season compared to last. Our average attendance was 3516, Hamilton's was 2912. (http://www.worldfoot...ue-2013-2014/1/)

 

Hamilton of course have an advantage over us: their superb youth system which earns them money - Tony Andreu to Norwich for an apparent million pound fee, for example, as well as Stephen Hendrie signing a pre-contract with West Ham, which presumably will also net the Accies compensation.

 

Consequently, we are second bottom this season when it comes to how much we actually pay our players. Here is the list of average annual pay of the 2014 Premiership clubs from STV - (http://sport.stv.tv/...n-ross-countys/)

 

Celtic - £901,943

Aberdeen - £140,699

Hibernian - £102,199

Dundee United - £91,538

St Mirren - £78,447

Kilmarnock - £74,981

St Johnstone - £67,999

Motherwell - £67,639

Hearts - £63,999

Inverness CT - £53,690

Partick Thistle - £45,498

Ross County - £36,000

 

Many posters on this forum have commented on different occasions that Ross County players often receive other benefits in addition to their wages - rent-free accommodation for example - which if true, would feasibly place us at the bottom of this list.

 

With the addition of Hearts and possibly Rangers next season, out average attendance may rise, but that certainly won't mean our wage bill will rise. We've had this confirmed already by Ian Maxwell in the Evening Times - "We are now at a point where there is a plateau because everybody's wages can't keep going up and up." (http://www.eveningti...7341n.126457702)

 

Every year, the Guardian newspaper publishes a review of the annual English Premier League accounts; studying these, it becomes obvious that on the whole, teams generally finish in the order of their wage bills. The economist Stefan Szymanski drew the same conclusion in the book Soccernomics - "In short, the more you pay your players in wages, the higher you will finish."

 

Obviously there are aberrations - Hearts because of their financial difficulties, St Mirren dropping out because of poor managerial decisions, Inverness finishing higher, etc. - but it's impossible to escape the fact that we are punching above our weight. All things considered, finishing eighth was a superb achievement that exposes the idiocy of those people who clamoured for Archibald to be sacked all season.

 

Three of our first team have been offered new deals and our manager expects them to leave regardless; Conrad Balatoni, Scott Fox, and Kallum Higginbotham. Archibald confirmed this to the BBC - "Those three look like they'll be moving on." (http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/32861042)

 

What are we to make of this? That these players can get paid more elsewhere. Looking at the evidence it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It also seems that some of our players obviously feel that Thistle aren't going to go any higher - this quote from Scott Fox in the Evening Times clearly indicates that - "They have offered me stuff, but I want to go and challenge myself, push at a high level and try and win trophies. The top half of this league would be a step up." (http://www.eveningti...7926n.126994598)

 

We're losing a good chunk of our team and we do not have the money to replace it. That's not scaremongering, it's a simple statement of fact. I just want to make sure no-one's being an ostrich about it. Keep dreaming about signing players from Kilmarnock or Dundee United though, guys! Players who are earning double or treble the money we can offer them!

 

 

 

You know what's going to be pish? When people start expecting us to be top six next season, or do better than the eighth we managed this season.

 

I hope we can do as well again next season. But I won't be surprised if we're battling it out at the bottom. What's sad is the inevitable arguments that will be raging on this forum yet again - when the same shower will reappear demanding that our manager get sacked, because of pie-in-the-sky dreams of what we're supposed to accomplish.

 

There is a difference between expecting to finishing top six and believing we can finish in the top six.

 

I was certainly in the camp of the latter this season and couldn't believe the negativity of people saying we had no chance, when at the end of the 33 games we weren't too far away. People on here got shot down when a top six finish was mentioned. If teams like St Johnstone, Inverness and Ross County can finish in the top six, then so can we. This season of all was a great opportunity to do so with three regular top half finishers playing in the division below.

 

I'm not saying for one minute that we haven't had a successful season, the league table shows our statistics to be healthier than last year. However, if you think back to the games that we lost when we should have won or avoidable late goals then we were pretty close.

 

We have enjoyed a period where a lot of young players have played together for a few years and developed in to really good players who have shown a great team spirit. That counted for a lot over the last couple of seasons when we couldn't match the wages of other teams to bring players in. If we are going to survive long term in the league I think we are going to have to do things the Hamilton way, as you mention.

 

I also hope we can match this season's finish next time out but as you say, we will probably be battling out at the bottom. We won't know though until we see who we can bring in on our limited budget. Hopefully a few of the youngsters will be able to step up as well.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

There is a difference between expecting to finishing top six and believing we can finish in the top six. I was certainly in the camp of the latter this season and couldn't believe the negativity of people saying we had no chance, when at the end of the 33 games we weren't too far away. People on here got shot down when a top six finish was mentioned. If teams like St Johnstone, Inverness and Ross County can finish in the top six, then so can we. This season of all was a great opportunity to do so with three regular top half finishers playing in the division below. I'm not saying for one minute that we haven't had a successful season, the league table shows our statistics to be healthier than last year. However, if you think back to the games that we lost when we should have won or avoidable late goals then we were pretty close. We have enjoyed a period where a lot of young players have played together for a few years and developed in to really good players who have shown a great team spirit. That counted for a lot over the last couple of seasons when we couldn't match the wages of other teams to bring players in. If we are going to survive long term in the league I think we are going to have to do things the Hamilton way, as you mention. I also hope we can match this season's finish next time out but as you say, we will probably be battling out at the bottom. We won't know though until we see who we can bring in on our limited budget. Hopefully a few of the youngsters will be able to step up as well.

 

I'll go along with that.

As way of a couple of specifics take the two away results against Dundee. Fox getting red carded and Doolan not passing late on in the other game at Dens cost us dearly. We were playing tremendous football in the first game and even if we hadn't scored from a Doolan assist in the second they wouldn't have had time to score that sucker goal. Even with the draw at Firhill I think a win and a draw up at Dens would've been enough to squeeze into the top six.

I know it's ifs and buts. I only highlight those two games to indicate how close we were to a top six finish and besides our positive goal difference kinda backs that up.

If it ever got to a case that wage bills of clubs completely mirror final league position then I think I'd give up going to games.

Edited May 26, 2015 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Roque]

We have the second lowest average attendance this season, and as Juan Carlos pointed out in another thread, it is down hugely this season compared to last. Our average attendance was 3516, Hamilton's was 2912. (http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premier-league-2013-2014/1/)

 

 

Consequently, we are second bottom this season when it comes to how much we actually pay our players. Here is the list of average annual pay of the 2014 Premiership clubs from STV - (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/1321105-celtics-average-wage-bill-is-25-times-higher-than-ross-countys/)

 

Celtic - £901,943

Aberdeen - £140,699

Hibernian - £102,199

Dundee United - £91,538

St Mirren - £78,447

Kilmarnock - £74,981

St Johnstone - £67,999

Motherwell - £67,639

Hearts - £63,999

Inverness CT - £53,690

Partick Thistle - £45,498

Ross County - £36,000

 

We finished with a higher attendance than Ross County. 3,516 was in pre-split fixtures, and our average has crept up just above County over the course of the split games.

 

The figures relating to how much teams pay in wages were for last season as well, hence the list having Hearts & Hibs on it and not Dundee & Hamilton.

 

I agree with the principle of what you are saying, and I agree that we had a very good season under the circumstances, but just because we pay less wages and have typically been a lower level club in recent years doesn't mean we can't cement our place in the top flight. ICT and St Johnstone show what can be achieved in spite of the same types of disadvantages we face. And St Mirren were at this level for 9 years, ffs.

[Lindau]

Without going into the ins and outs, you are spot on about a lot of things. Time people started realising we are punching well above our weight. We are a poorly supported club that pays low wages in comparison to most other clubs in this league and quite a few in the league below. Doesn't mean we can't get into the top 6 but people that are on here every time we hit a slump, calling for the managers head need a reality check. The job that Archie and Shaggy are doing with limited resources is fantastic!