Celtic 09/08/15 Match Thread

[Armand2]

A couple of arm-chair viewer observations:

• Some folk are lacking a bit of perspective, going by their post-match comments. Yes, these games are a "free hit" to a large extent but the effect of shipping a cricket score on our young and very promising centre-halves could been far more damaging in the long run. I'm not suggesting that we enter the game with the sole intention of keeping the score down but it wasn't an unwise decision from the manager to try to keep it tight, frustrate Celtic and try to nick something on the counter - better teams and more experienced managers will try that this season.
  

• There seems to be a notion that had we "went for it" so to speak, we could have gotten something from the game. I didn't see it that way at all; Celtic could have, and probably should have, been out of sight at half-time and looked like they could have stepped it up when and if required.
  

• After persevering with Stevenson up front last season with little success, I would have hoped Archie would have bagged that idea. I understand why he tried to match up against the more physically imposing centre-halves but Stevenson isn't a striker. Doolan put in a tremendous shift against Hamilton and in my opinion, more than deserved a chance to test himself against the best team in the country.
  

• I was quick enough to praise Miller last week but I thought he was poor yesterday. Timid challenge on Izaguirre in the build-up to the first goal and loose possession throughout. That said, I fear he's fighting a losing battle with some fans simply because he isn't O'Donnell.
  

• Felt a bit sorry for Wilson - he was out of position and had quite a thankless task, tracking overlaps and chasing his tail. There's a good player in there though, I'm sure of it.
  

• Pogba looked lively and showed that he could cause problems for lesser defences. He linked up well with Amoo and their directness could be a good option. Should have scored right enough but hopeful that with more match sharpness, he'll bury those kind of chances.
  

• Beaton flies under the radar but is easily one of the worst referees in Scotland. I don't condone violence towards anyone but it's quite easy to see how his decisions led to some Saudi player nutting him; he comes across as a very arrogant character. I don't want to come off with some of the paranoia more accustomed to yesterday's opponents but any game I've seen him referee, I've always left feeling unfairly treated; Boyata was all over Stevenson at various points, Osman should never have been booked and he invariably awarded any debatable decisions to the opposition.
  

• Did I think it was a penalty? No. But Osman had a penalty given against him last season for a very similar incident.
  

 

Our season won't be defined by games against Celtic. Plenty to be positive about ahead of what is already shaping up to be quite a big week.

[stillresigned]

After a day's reflection, I still think we could have been done under the Trades Description Act or its modern replacement. Seldom have I watched a game that was so one sided that if it was a boxing match it would have been stop peen I will take issue with Archie's tactics as they've failed on innumerable occasions and there was no reason to suspect playing Ryan up front was going to produce more success against the champions..If this is going to be a taster for the rest of the season, I can only suggest that we're in for a long hard season.

Of course it would be ridiculous to suggest that we're doomed on the evidence of yesterday, but it's definitely a blow to the guts to have to watch such an excreblee performance so early on in the season. The only bright spot was the performance of our you central defenders which was in my opinion highly commendable.

[Paulo]

it wasn't an unwise decision from the manager to try to keep it tight, frustrate Celtic and try to nick something on the counter

 

Some good points made. I selectively quoted the above to suggest that this might have been a decent idea. Next time we should add that counter attack bit.

[ian_mac]

The tone for the whole match was set the moment we kicked off and, in the true spirit of the game, duly booted the ball in to touch.

 

It summed up our performance, we weren't interested in holding on to the ball in case we lost it, and we weren't interested in making tackles in case we upset the Celtic players. Far too much respect show to them all over the park. Van Dyke was show boating all day long.

 

As much as I love Archie he got his team selection wrong yesterday - why he continues to think that Stevenson can play up front on his own I will never know. He still looks like he's isn't fit for a start, and playing as a lone striker is not in his game. Dools led the line brilliantly last week, he was our first line of defence at all times. I can't believe he was dropped. There can't be many players who've had such a raw deal as he has during his time at the club. To then not even bring him on when we were chasing the game was another slap in the face for the guy.

 

It seemed like we set up for a 2-0 defeat yesterday. At no point in the match did our players believe they could take something from the game, no wonder the fans didn't turn up.

[Hankey]

Another thing I'd like to add too, seeing the bing on national tv yet again was just an absolute redneck in my opinion. A top flight professional football club with a grassy hill covered in ****** weeds behind the goal, c'mon to ****.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Hankey

[douglas clark]

"Another thing I'd like to add too, seeing the bing on national tv yet again was just an absolute redneck in my opinion. A top flight professional football club with a grassy hill covered in ****** weeds behind the goal, c'mon to ****. :lol:"

 

We definately need to cover it in gnomes or summat!

 

Fans would be good.

[Jag]

Slaven Bilic before the game at The Emirates yesterday:

 

“Right lads, listen up. Here’s what we’re going to do today. Forget winning or even sneaking a point. We’ve lost the last ten games in a row to this mob with various mangers in charge so that tells you something. It’s a no win game. The bookies have got us priced at 12/1 to beat Arsenal so we have no chance. The main objective is to get our young players through the game today with minimal carnage. That’s it. Do that and we’ve done what we came to do. We certainly don’t want to try anything fancy and actually take something, that would only give our young lads confidence.”

 

“We’re dropping our top scorer. Easy decision, he would only get rag dolled anyway. Despite admitting it on numerous occasions that is doesn’t work, we’re playing our star midfielder out of position again. Why? Who cares? We have no chance anyway. Damage limitation and we move on. Our season starts next Saturday v Leicester.”

 

“And I certainly don’t want you wasting any energy theorising about how we could have done things differently.”

 

I am a fan of Alan Archibald. He is a young, ambitious manager and has done a great job since taking over at the club. As we all know, he has the smallest budget in the division - yet we go in to our third successive season in the top flight. However, sometimes he gets it wrong. He makes mistakes like the rest of us. If he didn’t he wouldn’t be our manager, he would be somebody else’s. Yesterday was an example of him getting it wrong. Hopefully he’ll learn from it. And then move on.

[La Scimmia Rossa]

A question. If this "having a go strategy" had back fired and we had lost six goals, you'd all be lauding the manager? Like you did when we lost 6 against Celtic last season?

 

You'd have crucified him.

 

Whether you like it or not, the first target is 42 points. As soon as possible. With 3 games in 6 days, i'd prefer we channelled our efforts into games we can actually win, rather than mindwanking about winning.

Edited August 10, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa

[La Scimmia Rossa]

"We weren't interested in making tackles in case it upset the Celtic players". Next you'll be telling us it's actually Maxi that's picking the team.

[ChiThistle]

Reserving some judgment until next Celtic game. I could see how new faces plus two youngsters in the middle of the defence (Hendry making his first ever start, yes?) would cause Archie to change his tactics.

But if he's concerned about size up front against Celtic (was Lawless also not subbed pretty early?), then why not start Pogba and see what you get? No one is expecting points from the match and we're only two games into the season.

 

I hope we've upped our asking price for Everton re Hendry though.

[JeanieD]

Have just heard on the radio that the Celtic Number 2 John Collins - a man for whom the word "vanity" was invented - has been sounding off about the lack of competition in the SPL. Seems a real pity that our performance yesterday kind of backs up his vacuous opinion.

[David Stevenson]

Have just heard on the radio that the Celtic Number 2 John Collins - a man for whom the word "vanity" was invented - has been sounding off about the lack of competition in the SPL. Seems a real pity that our performance yesterday kind of backs up his vacuous opinion.

Agreed, but Collins is full of pish. He moaned incessantly about the ICT handball in the Scottish Cup semi despite having done it himself when playing for Scotland.

[David Stevenson]

It's an opinion. I would have thought it was obvious? As i said, if you want to waste energy theorising about what could have been, fair enough.

Most comments relate to what SHOULD have been. Ws should have been more positive. County were positive at Parkhead and didn't hammered. We were at home against a team that had played on the eastern side of Europe in 30C heat. We never even tried to take advantage of those circumstances.

[Willjag]

That said, I fear he's fighting a losing battle with some fans simply because he isn't O'Donnell.

I came on the forum tonight with the intention of posting exactly this, even the bit about SOD. It's easy to spot already who this season's scapegoat is going to be.

[potty trained]

I notice a lot of folk say he shat out of the tackle leading to their goal. Even though he won the ball cleanly and powerfully.

 

It was that power that led to the deflection landing so far away, behind him.

[Dark Passenger]

Booth and Miller have come in for some unwarranted flack. Watch the goals again. Where's Lawless when Izaguirre breaks from the back? Nowhere, hence why Miller leaves the man he's picking up to make the challenge. He just didn't get the break of the ball. And the second. Why is Booth having to make that challenge? Because he was tracking Commons' run or because BOTH our centre backs are marking Griffiths?

[Third Lanark]

Reserving some judgment until next Celtic game. I could see how new faces plus two youngsters in the middle of the defence (Hendry making his first ever start, yes?) would cause Archie to change his tactics.

But if he's concerned about size up front against Celtic (was Lawless also not subbed pretty early?), then why not start Pogba and see what you get? No one is expecting points from the match and we're only two games into the season.

 

I hope we've upped our asking price for Everton re Hendry though.

I actually hope mate we use any money from yesterday to get a 3 year deal for Henry :-)

[jlsarmy]

A question. If this "having a go strategy" had back fired and we had lost six goals, you'd all be lauding the manager? Like you did when we lost 6 against Celtic last season?

 

You'd have crucified him.

 

Whether you like it or not, the first target is 42 points. As soon as possible. With 3 games in 6 days, i'd prefer we channelled our efforts into games we can actually win, rather than mindwanking about winning.

Didn't think we would win but the very least you should want for your team is to compete, the we've got 3 games in 6 days theory is bullshit for so called professional athletes .We're meant to have a progressive young manager who is forward thinking with an ethos of attacking football, but the way his team was set up absolutely refutes this .

The game was over before it started due to Archie's team selection and his negative tactics and then we wonder why the crowds are decreasing. The damage limitation theory that you condone for a professional football team is absolute nonsense, they should go into every game thinking they should win or they shouldn't be professional footballers.

Edited August 10, 2015 by jlsarmy

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Didn't think we would win but the very least you should want for your team is to compete, the we've got 3 games in 6 days theory is bullshit for so called professional athletes .We're meant to have a progressive young manager who is forward thinking with an ethos of attacking football, but the way his team was set up absolutely refutes this .

The game was over before it started due to Archie's team selection and his negative tactics and then we wonder why the crowds are decreasing. The damage limitation theory that you condone for a professional football team is absolute nonsense, they should go into every game thinking they should win or they shouldn't be professional footballers.

 

Gotta disagree.Two of the three central midfielders are well capable of getting into forward positions and often at that. Lawless, who's looked really sharp in pre season, was clearly off the boil yesterday. I wasn't convinced about starting Stevenson ahead of Doolan but as I said elsewhere I don't feel it made much difference the way things panned out.

[jlsarmy]

 

 

Gotta disagree.Two of the three central midfielders are well capable of getting into forward positions and often at that. Lawless, who's looked really sharp in pre season, was clearly off the boil yesterday. I wasn't convinced about starting Stevenson ahead of Doolan but as I said elsewhere I don't feel it made much difference the way things panned out.

you're obviously entitled to your opinion and I respect that, driving to the game and hearing what the team was you could tell what the tactics were , to flood the midfield , sit deep to eliminate the space that Griffiths etc had to run into . It only changed after Celtic scored when we visibly pushed 15 yards up the park . IMO the tactics were totally negative from the start , no goal threat and not even a recognised centre forward on the park.

[cyprusjag]

Two thoughts

 

The first goal was a fluke.He just stuck out a leg as the ball was going behind him. Brilliant technique my a**e

 

I assume we will be writing a letter to the SPL asking why we were not awarded a penalty ?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

you're obviously entitled to your opinion and I respect that, driving to the game and hearing what the team was you could tell what the tactics were , to flood the midfield , sit deep to eliminate the space that Griffiths etc had to run into . It only changed after Celtic scored when we visibly pushed 15 yards up the park . IMO the tactics were totally negative from the start , no goal threat and not even a recognised centre forward on the park.

 

I can respect your opinion. In fact you're probably in the majority. I just don't accept that Archie set the team out on exceptionally negative terms. I mentioned Lawless under-performing and I feel that was pivotal. Apart from the Doolan/Stevenson thingy I don't think Archie could've realistically selected a much more attacking line up. Amoo wasn't fully fit, Elliott not available. Perhaps McDaid for Wilson tho' I always feel Declan plays better down the right.

You say "we visibly pushed 15 yards up the park" after they scored. I entirely agree but that was with the same starting personnel and my point was they should've been doing that from the off.

[Stewarty]

I thought Miller had a pretty solid game defensively. I haven't re-watched the game on TV but at the time I thought he was unlucky with the challenge that led to the goal. The ball could have gone anywhere.

[Firhillista]

I'm in the unusual position of apparently agreeing with everyone on this thread! I don't think the manager intended the team to play solely defensively, but I was absolutely gutted on Sunday by our inability to put any pressure on Celtic until the last ten minutes of the game. For me, the issue is the long standing one of us not having an incisive enough attack. It's not just whether Doolan should start or what Stevenson's best position is (although I'm still unconvinced that he brings anything greatly positive to the side, wherever he plays), it's more about our inability to consistently cause opposing teams' defences problems. Yes, we score goals, but how often do we dominate play? We give the ball away far too easily. I can't help thinking we need someone in who can hold onto the ball and allow our forward players to make runs. (And if they were good at dead ball situations too, that would be a bonus.)

[Mr Bunny]

Have just heard on the radio that the Celtic Number 2 John Collins - a man for whom the word "vanity" was invented - has been sounding off about the lack of competition in the SPL. Seems a real pity that our performance yesterday kind of backs up his vacuous opinion.

 

Didn't he say other teams didn't have good enough players - but Celtic has bought three players this year from one of these clubs he thinks is rubbish?