Fawlty Towers Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I think that a lot of this discussion is a sympton of what goes in in society these days. Nobody does stoicism these days and it is actually much better to run around telling people how much you are stressing out. We also live in a very disposable age so people just throw things out if there is a slight issue and they think that just applies to football managers as well. The fact that Archie has been here for nearly 3 seasons means that some people just think that it is time for a change (look at the average length a manager in Scotland gets these days) whilst I prefer to think that the good job he has done in that period means he deserves some slack. Lets all be truly honest with each other here - there are some posters who have wanted him out almost as soon as he got the job and will continue to hold to that opinion even when we start winning the only thing that will change is they will just stop posting whilst that happens but their opinions won't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I really think that all AA has done is kept to the blue print that was left for him after JM left.. Now this is his "team" (after loosing so many key parts) its completely fallen apart.. a manager should be evaluating his teams strengths and weakness all the time and then adapting the game to fit our players. he is still trying to use the same system that JM left behind. Square pegs in round holes.. Can anyone point to a tactical initiative that he has made that is his own? apart from having Stevenson as striker Do you remember the position when Jackie left - we were not top (as I often hear people say) and were showing a soft streak in away games. Archie took over and all the players from that team spoke about how he tweaked things to make us more solid and we went unbeaten for the remaining league games. Edited September 13, 2015 by Fawlty Towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 FWIW, it seems unlikely to me that any football club board goes in for stoicism or stressing out: their job is to look at the finances and make decisions on that basis. Why should fans, who presumably go to games to get some excitement in their lives, adopt Stoicism, of all philosophies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Ok, I'm desperately sorry that I didn't get back to everyone immediately. I've actually got a life away from this forum. It's seems folk are misinterpretating what I said. So for clarity I didn't say all of BGM' expectations were unrealistic. I focused specifically on the one regarding Dumbaya and the team clicking. Quoted the specific parts of a wide and varied post which were relevant. It's one thing hoping the team click after 4 games with a new player in the team. It gets to expectation if you want there to be repercussions, if this doesn't happen. I have neither the inclination or desire to go through every single expectation you have BGM, of which there are a lot. Some I agree with, some I don't. Our plan B will revolve around a defensive right back? I didn't say our Plan B "revolves" around s defensive right back. Edited September 13, 2015 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 You're right FT, we do live in a disposable age. One where people have near unlimited social options on a Saturday afternoon. A dip in attendances was inevitable, but it looks (without the benefit of having figures to hand) that they've dropped off a cliff. If something doesn't change then keeping us up, or taking us back up, is going to be even more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 FWIW, it seems unlikely to me that any football club board goes in for stoicism or stressing out: their job is to look at the finances and make decisions on that basis. Why should fans, who presumably go to games to get some excitement in their lives, adopt Stoicism, of all philosophies? I will hold my hands up and say that I am not a classics expert so when I talk about being stoic I mean keeping to a fairly even keel which allows you to look at things without too much emotion one way or the other. Ultimately fans can do want they want but if we always did want a noisy minority suggested it might not work out too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Think it's far too early to press the panic button , after watching yesterday I felt we were unlucky not to win the match . Hartley more or less said they were fortunate to win the points . Don't think we're far away from being a decent team , think the defence has got to be sorted out , probably with Seabourne or Gary Miller coming in at the expense of Lindsay . Watched Stevenson yesterday, shouldn't be anywhere near the team just now until his fitness levels improve , not sure if that's because he didn't get a proper pre season due to the knee operation he got in the summer but at this moment we need workers in the team , I would have played Welsh further forward yesterday at the expense of Stevenson. Best time to judge the team is after the first quarter of games have been played . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 the only thing you could criticise Stevenson for was his finishing and his set piece delivery. He played very well barring that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Do you remember the position when Jackie left - we were not top (as I often hear people say) and were showing a soft streak in away games. Archie took over and all the players from that team spoke about how he tweaked things to make us more solid and we went unbeaten for the remaining league games. This.....and last season when we pressed higher up the pitch away from home often to good result. We didn't have the fourth best goal difference in the league by accident. Games away at ICT, Tannadice and Pittodrie were noticeable for deviation of tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I think that a lot of this discussion is a sympton of what goes in in society these days. Nobody does stoicism these days and it is actually much better to run around telling people how much you are stressing out. We also live in a very disposable age so people just throw things out if there is a slight issue and they think that just applies to football managers as well. The fact that Archie has been here for nearly 3 seasons means that some people just think that it is time for a change (look at the average length a manager in Scotland gets these days) whilst I prefer to think that the good job he has done in that period means he deserves some slack. Lets all be truly honest with each other here - there are some posters who have wanted him out almost as soon as he got the job and will continue to hold to that opinion even when we start winning the only thing that will change is they will just stop posting whilst that happens but their opinions won't change. Not sure if this is aimed at me as well as the obvious others but I'll bite... This 'stoicism' thing that you're maybe suggesting that certain folk should be. Correct me if I'm wrong, football is s business & to be successful in business you have to have a good product. If the product isn't what the customer wants then they won't buy (or in the case of football, they won't turn up). If the person charged with making your business a success on a day to day basis isn't coming up with the ideas or is costing your business money. What happens? Football is a cut throat business these days & there is no such thing as loyalty for players or managers. There's not one person at the club (players/management & perhaps even the financial director) who wouldn't move to a bigger club as soon as they came calling with more money. Loyalty in football amongst players/management/chief executives long gone. The only loyalty shown is by fans. But hey, Alan Archibald a nice guy, club legend & kept us for a couple of seasons so that makes him exempt from criticism? At the end of the day, it's nothing to do with living in a throwaway society or being stressed. PTFC is a business & those running the business will look at it far more coldly & calculating than any fan. We're already losing money, unless Alan Archibald turns it around over the next few weeks then, as has been said by others on here, the PATG will start to find something else to spend their hard earned cash on- especially true on run up to Xmas & Janusry. ETA: Fearcher said in 5 lines what I said in an essay!! Edited September 13, 2015 by Bleeding Gums Murphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 This.....and last season when we pressed higher up the pitch away from home often to good result. We didn't have the fourth best goal difference in the league by accident. Games away at ICT, Tannadice and Pittodrie were noticeable for deviation of tactics. St Johnstone away in season 1 we started 4-4-2. And got a point, I think. Elliott started at right mid. The oft loudly repeated suggestion we don't have a plan B is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 It's a bit more than a 'poor run' CGMB, hence why you have 'moderates' beginning to question what the hell is going on. first season up it took us to february to get a home win .... last year we had 3 wins in our first 11 games ..... against teams we have yet to play this year. this year we've already played last years millionare champs, the runners up who beat the champs yeasterday and a pheonix like hearts.... we've drawn three, two in which we've had a man sent off ... and been beaten by a single goal against a strong dundee ( who's only league losses have come against hearts and aberdeen ) ...... more than a bad run .... ? .... nah ... we need to get the finger oot absolutely .... but I think we're capable of improvement and should not rashly or harshly compare ourselves to un-precedented standards of excellence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Think it's far too early to press the panic button , after watching yesterday I felt we were unlucky not to win the match . Hartley more or less said they were fortunate to win the points . Don't think we're far away from being a decent team , think the defence has got to be sorted out , probably with Seabourne or Gary Miller coming in at the expense of Lindsay . Watched Stevenson yesterday, shouldn't be anywhere near the team just now until his fitness levels improve , not sure if that's because he didn't get a proper pre season due to the knee operation he got in the summer but at this moment we need workers in the team , I would have played Welsh further forward yesterday at the expense of Stevenson. Best time to judge the team is after the first quarter of games have been played . Thought Stevenson played well yesterday but on the fitness thing, I'm not sure the team look as fit as they were last season. Maybe just me this time. For me, Welsh further forward doesn't work, nor does Bannigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 first season up it took us to february to get a home win .... last year we had 3 wins in our first 11 games ..... against teams we have yet to play this year. this year we've already played last years millionare champs, the runners up who beat the champs yeasterday and a pheonix like hearts.... we've drawn three, two in which we've had a man sent off ... and been beaten by a single goal against a strong dundee ( who's only league losses have come against hearts and aberdeen ) ...... more than a bad run .... ? .... nah ... we need to get the finger oot absolutely .... but I think we're capable of improvement and should not rashly or harshly compare ourselves to un-precedented standards of excellence. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 first season up it took us to february to get a home win .... last year we had 3 wins in our first 11 games ..... against teams we have yet to play this year. this year we've already played last years millionare champs, the runners up who beat the champs yeasterday and a pheonix like hearts.... we've drawn three, two in which we've had a man sent off ... and been beaten by a single goal against a strong dundee ( who's only league losses have come against hearts and aberdeen ) ...... more than a bad run .... ? .... nah ... we need to get the finger oot absolutely .... but I think we're capable of improvement and should not rashly or harshly compare ourselves to un-precedented standards of excellence. So we've been unlucky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 the only thing you could criticise Stevenson for was his finishing and his set piece delivery. He played very well barring that. Sorry DP, not wanting to scapegoat Stevenson but he hasn't for one reason or other played a full 90 mins in the league this season, surely there must be reasons for this form or fitness ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Sorry DP, not wanting to scapegoat Stevenson but he hasn't for one reason or other played a full 90 mins in the league this season, surely there must be reasons for this form or fitness ? He had a knee operation in the summer, probably being the main one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 The fact he hasn't completed 90 minutes doesn't mean he "shouldn't be anywhere near the team". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 So we've been unlucky? Though I agree with CGMB's post , I did LOL at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 first season up it took us to february to get a home win .... last year we had 3 wins in our first 11 games ..... against teams we have yet to play this year. Were we drawing home games and picking up points away from home in year one? Did we lose seven of those 11 in year two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 So we've been unlucky? a little .... having to play on a plastic pitch in your first competitive match .... next up the champions .... having two central defenders sent off in your first 4 games and a third injured.... loosing the opener to a blatant handball against aberdeen ( a game in which we had more shots on goal [ maybe not on target but that can be worked on]than the visitors btw... ) ..... the ref allowing a quick free kick against kille ..... But ... y'know .... musn't grumble. Chin high , chest oot ... carry on regardless.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I reckon we're not bad. A couple of breaks and the confidence will build, and I fancy us to be finishing about eighth again. Don't think Archie's done much wrong, and I'm a bit surprised that two and a half successful seasons hasn't earned him a bit more credit when things aren't going great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Were we drawing home games and picking up points away from home in year one? Did we lose seven of those 11 in year two? we've picked up 2 points away from home this year so far ..... and no, year 2 we lost 5 in 11 ..... .... so .... progress and improvement in first quarter stats is still possible. ... unlikely maybe , 4 wins in a row , but possible against three current bottom 6 teams and toss bounty..... Call me a happy clapper if you wanna, but it could happen. Edited September 13, 2015 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 first season up it took us to february to get a home win .... last year we had 3 wins in our first 11 games ..... against teams we have yet to play this year. this year we've already played last years millionare champs, the runners up who beat the champs yeasterday and a pheonix like hearts.... we've drawn three, two in which we've had a man sent off ... and been beaten by a single goal against a strong dundee ( who's only league losses have come against hearts and aberdeen ) ...... more than a bad run .... ? .... nah ... we need to get the finger oot absolutely .... but I think we're capable of improvement and should not rashly or harshly compare ourselves to un-precedented standards of excellence. Who'd be a stato, eh? The stats are we have won no league games in ten (plus Falkirk), and failed to score in 7 of those (plus Falkirk). We are bottom of the league not due to bad luck, but because of our results. That is a problem, irrespective of playing a sleepy Celtic team, an Aberdeen team that are grinding out wins for fun, and a Hearts team that were untouchable until the week after they swept us aside. Not to mention a Kilmarnock side that loves playing us because however poor they are, we'll only ever beat them once in a month of Sundays. AA is facing a new challenge, and as others have said he has to make us less predictable. Hopefully soon, and I wish him luck in doing so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 The fact he hasn't completed 90 minutes doesn't mean he "shouldn't be anywhere near the team". Would we not be better to get a good 20 mins out of him when the game has opened out ? yesterday the amount of times Stevensons direct oponnent was passed onto another midfield player usually Bannigan or Osman meant the shape of the team totally changed, exposing the defence and their lack of pace . If Stevenson plays in midfield he's still got to graft and match the runs of his opponent, whether that's to do with fitness I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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