BowenBoys Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I missed it, perhaps asleep, what was the attendance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I missed it, perhaps asleep, what was the attendance? 4359 according to Soccerbase. Doesn't say how many were awake. Looked like just over 1000 Killie fans. Btw hospitality was near full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Crosses yield very low returns, as has been discussed at length on this forum. However, we are, sadly, among the practitioners of Scottish football, whose aspirations are based on watching lower-league English football (often in the reasonable hope of picking up some affordable talent). IMHO at least our management team, and probably the players too, should be required to watch recordings of top European sides for at least 30 minutes daily. French, German, Italian and Spanish top-flight examples could provide more than enough ideas for revitalising playing styles, instead of the belief that you can win on corners and crosses. We couldn't, even if we didn't have such a poor record at corners. BTW I watched two amateur German sides playing just before the Easter weekend, and while they were not as fast as our professionals, almost of their passes found their target and their tackles won possession. They could also provide a clear, simple electronic scoreboard for the spectators, showing the score and the time played. Sometimes I think we have a nominally professional setup without even the organisation of amateurs - but maybe that's because it's here rather than Germany. It's not crosses that yield a low return, it's the kind of big, floaty crosses that Thistle seem to send in, time after time. I highly recommend the Bundesliga Highlights programme (best watched on the ITV Catchup to avoid the ads) where every week top-flight German teams score prolifically from crosses, all sent over with pace and accuracy and usually by a player who's got into position to make the cross as quickly as possible, so that the defence hasn't time to organise. And corners are fired in with the same force as Thistle free kicks on goal, so that the slightest touch can bring a goal. The earlier the cross and the greater the pace on the ball, the more chance of a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I genuinely enjoyed the game yesterday. Wasn't that pretty but some end to end stuff and I was worried a couple of times as Killie had better chances to score although I would say we had the better of the play. Kris Boyd missed a sitter and he is a real shadow of the player he was. He kept Killie up during his 2nd return to them but after another stint at Rangers he's just done. For us Amoo and Edwards were our best players in 1st half. Amoo is much improved since the beginning of the season. Pogba has also improved but every time we play with him up front then it's a case of big punts up the park and he was not winning many headers. Killie had some big boys on the pitch and we were not getting much joy and a lot of our crosses could have been better. Tuesday is a big big game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandau Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 It occurred to me midway through the first half that nowadays I have virtually no expectation of us scoring in front of the North Stand. I think I've seen three (Thistle) goals there all season. Some interesting discussion on here about how we play and why. One thing I would say is, despite this being our most successful team for 30 years, the style won't bring any new punters in the gates and without that, it's hard to see how we kick on from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Taylor Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 West Ender - David Amoo was voted MotM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 One thing I would say is, despite this being our most successful team for 30 years, the style won't bring any new punters in the gates and without that, it's hard to see how we kick on from here. A rather pessimistic post, which I find hard to disagree with. However I'm sure if we were to look back at a time not that long ago, when we were playing a more attractive style, folk on here were saying only improved results would bring the fans back. I don't particularly like using statistics with regards to such a nebulous subject but we've gone from gaining four points to nearly five points every four games. That's a very significant upturn in results, which hasn't been reflected in attendances. So I suppose Archie has to come up with a way we can play a more attractive style than we currently play and maintain our present win rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 A rather pessimistic post, which I find hard to disagree with. However I'm sure if we were to look back at a time not that long ago, when we were playing a more attractive style, folk on here were saying only improved results would bring the fans back. I don't particularly like using statistics with regards to such a nebulous subject but we've gone from gaining four points to nearly five points every four games. That's a very significant upturn in results, which hasn't been reflected in attendances. So I suppose Archie has to come up with a way we can play a more attractive style than we currently play and maintain our present win rate. With Erskine back and rumours about Alston, we could see a change in midfield tactics next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 For me, the problem isn't Pogba, it's the same issue we've struggled with all season - a lack of movement into the opposition box. Osman and Welsh (or Bannigan) sit deep with only one midfielder, Edwards or Fraser (or Nisbet or whoever), supporting the guy leading the line, Pogba or Doolan. Amoo stays out on the wing and Lawless drifts around only occasionally making a contribution (although extremely effectively when he does). It's not enough. It gives us a stable platform from which to defend, but doesn't provide any kind of launch pad for attack. Currently, the most effective attacking we do is when the fullbacks overlap, particularly when Dumbaya is playing. Previously, we were good going forward because of the amount of movement up front - we had permutations of Doolan, Lawless, Higginbotham, Erskine, Welsh, Bannigan, Elliot all moving in and around the opposition penalty box and it was very effective. And great to watch. We've sacraficed that kind of attacking flair for defensive security. It'll keep us in the division, but we need more to progress. Add O'Odonnell and ATS's marauding runs to that. Then and now is like chalk and cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfaelivi Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I watched the highlights of Dundee beating County last night and the most noticeable thing about their play was the number of players they got forward and how quickly they did it. I've been harping on here for ages about how few players we get into the box but it was evident from the footage I've just mentioned that midfielders and forwards were breaking necks to get into the box. Dundee have had great press this season for the exploits of Hemmings, Stewart et al but their record is not really any better than us ( we score fewer goals by far but are better at defending) Is it just that we have worse attackers but better defenders? I talked about our penalty paucity on another thread being because you have to get players in the box to get penalties. We just don't!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) A few nights ago I watched Japan demolish Syria (5-0). What was especially striking was that 4 of Japan's goals came from fast, direct counter-attacks: the ball was in or around their own penalty box, but all it took them was three or four passes to get up to the other end and score. Talk about busting a gut to get into the box: https://www.youtube....h?v=13u4TAJfOL0 ETA: for several years Fergie's Man Utd. were also masters of the fast, lethal counter-attack. Edited April 4, 2016 by Jaggernaut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 For the last few years we have had plenty on here (though some have disappeared without trace!) bemoaning the fact that with two great centre backs in charge, we were regularly shipping stupid goals and regularly losing goals in the last 5 minutes of games. Plenty of questions were getting asked about why it was not being rectified. Well it clearly has been rectified, but at the cost of our attacking style of football. Personally, I don't give a hoot as long as the club is competing in the top level. We are very strong defensively and as I said in a previous post, things could change next season with the possibility of Banzo and Osman leaving and Erskine and the like of Alston being mentioned as targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I dont think I would go as far as to say "we are very strong defensively". We dont get enough players forward. I think were not sure what to do in the final third because we dont have many, if any, options available. What we need in that case is more direct players who are not afraid to take players on. We have Amoo now beginning to do that however he is crossing the ball in to one player amongst three defenders. The only other player at the moment that seems capable of that is Nesbitt. Next season will see Erskine back, it was his directness that arguably got us promoted in the first place. We need more players supporting the strikers. Doolan doesnt have a chance the way we play. Other than the Hamilton game, a lot of our goals have come from speculative shots from outside the box. Id love to know what we do in training, i think the players must jist be doing stretches and fitness exercises because when they are on the park they've not even got the faintest of ideas how were going to manage to create a chance never mind a goal. Its been said that this is the best we have done in 30 years. Ive managed to take in 10 games this season, seen one win and nine defeats. How we are where we are seems like a minor miracle to me. There has been a few unexpected fantastic results along the way but generally our tactic seems to be to try to keep it scud each till the hour mark then sneak a late winner. On another note, the attendance on saturday wasnt too bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruchillnomore Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 By that equation we have a management team who can only fix one thing at at time I.e. The defence is sorted at the expense of our attacking play. As others have posted what was quite apparent on Saturday was that when Amoo made the run down the wing and had the opportunity to get the ball on to the box he had only 1 or 2 players to hit. Drills like these during training should either have at least 2 players one going front post one going back with at least 2 midfielders delaying the run around the a Edge of the 18 yard box. We don't have that lots of our crosses are either over hit or blocked by the first defender. Our delivery of the ball and our ability to get attacking players in to the box is our downfall. I also believe that with the amount of possession we have in the final third we should have a midfielder on the books who is capable of chipping in with 10-12 goals a season almost someone of an Albert Craig type game. I do see Ryan Edwards possibly being able to take that mantle as he has the energy to go beyond players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I dont think I would go as far as to say "we are very strong defensively". Totally disagree. Take out our three humpings this season, Hearts twice and Dundee, and our defence stands up or is indeed better than any team in the top half of the league. Think I read in the excellent stats watch that Tomas has had a fantastic record this season with clean sheets (for our club anyway) The defence is as solid a one as we have had since the Bertie days. I agree on your point re Archie.I have said often that the tactics appear to be to keep a clean sheet for around an hour then become a bit more adventurous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 By that equation we have a management team who can only fix one thing at at time I.e. The defence is sorted at the expense of our attacking play. As others have posted what was quite apparent on Saturday was that when Amoo made the run down the wing and had the opportunity to get the ball on to the box he had only 1 or 2 players to hit. Drills like these during training should either have at least 2 players one going front post one going back with at least 2 midfielders delaying the run around the a Edge of the 18 yard box. We don't have that lots of our crosses are either over hit or blocked by the first defender. Our delivery of the ball and our ability to get attacking players in to the box is our downfall. I also believe that with the amount of possession we have in the final third we should have a midfielder on the books who is capable of chipping in with 10-12 goals a season almost someone of an Albert Craig type game. I do see Ryan Edwards possibly being able to take that mantle as he has the energy to go beyond players. Jeez what most of us would give for a Craig, Hardie type player. If we get Alston and with Erskine back, and with Ryan Edwards showing potential, things could change drastically next season. The point I am trying to make is that given the absolutely horrendous results at the start of the season I don't think the management had any option other than to try and tighten the defence and grind out results.....and they have done that magnificently! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I talked about our penalty paucity............ What a great, concise, phrase. Well said, sir! Bet you don't get that standard of patter on any of the OF boards. And I agree that we really need to get more bodies in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 What a great, concise, phrase. Well said, sir! Bet you don't get that standard of patter on any of the OF boards. To be fair to our rivals across the city it's more difficult to be concise when any penalty paucity they suffer is so obviously down to some Lanarkshire masonic conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Totally disagree. Take out our three humpings this season, Hearts twice and Dundee, and our defence stands up or is indeed better than any team in the top half of the league. Think I read in the excellent stats watch that Tomas has had a fantastic record this season with clean sheets (for our club anyway) The defence is as solid a one as we have had since the Bertie days. I agree on your point re Archie.I have said often that the tactics appear to be to keep a clean sheet for around an hour then become a bit more adventurous. I would also throw the motherwell game into that list of humpings as it was a shambles. Losing the aberdeen game the other week didnt suggest we were 'very strong' either. We were all at sea when magennis ran into the box leaving boyd unmarked on the penalty spot and were lucky to see that baw floating doon the canal. I would agree though that we have improved defensively this season but not to the extent you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 It's not crosses that yield a low return, it's the kind of big, floaty crosses that Thistle seem to send in, time after time. I highly recommend the Bundesliga Highlights programme (best watched on the ITV Catchup to avoid the ads) where every week top-flight German teams score prolifically from crosses, all sent over with pace and accuracy and usually by a player who's got into position to make the cross as quickly as possible, so that the defence hasn't time to organise. And corners are fired in with the same force as Thistle free kicks on goal, so that the slightest touch can bring a goal. The earlier the cross and the greater the pace on the ball, the more chance of a goal. The leading Bundesliga team by far ( ) has just started to use crosses a lot more, and is getting narrow wins and even losses where at one time it simply ran riot. With the exception of BVB Dortmund and Hertha Berlin ( ), which have been going in for unusual long-ball styles rather more like English play, crosses have not been so important in recent years in the Bundesliga. That is beginning to change, perhaps in part due to Dortmund's love-in with the media, but IMHO it's to the detriment of the spectacle in general, and it's difficult not to wonder about the future for heading the ball, given the mounting medical evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 A stat was put up that shows that Partick Thistle have failed to score in over 41% of their league games this season; the worst record in the league. On the basis of Saturday's match, it was easy to see why. Thankfully a good defensive record has been enough to grind out draws, and that seems to be the reason for our relatively comfortable position. But it is little wonder that the crowds haven't turned out in greater numbers this season when you see that goalscoring record; it's pitiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 A stat was put up that shows that Partick Thistle have failed to score in over 41% of their league games this season; the worst record in the league. On the basis of Saturday's match, it was easy to see why. Thankfully a good defensive record has been enough to grind out draws, and that seems to be the reason for our relatively comfortable position. But it is little wonder that the crowds haven't turned out in greater numbers this season when you see that goalscoring record; it's pitiful. Crowds weren't really any better last season when we had a plus 10 goal difference at home and we were scoring over half as many goals more than this season. Can't argue that it will be a contributory factor to our relatively poor home gates but clearly not the root cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I honestly can't believe there are Jags fans who aren't happy (with the Jags) right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfaelivi Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Rid Sqwerr thank you re the penalties quip! And I see elsewhere they are going on big time about our set pieces, corners in particular and crossing in general. We have three players I would love to see running into the box - Amoo, Lawless and now Ryan Edwards. If we do hee haw trying to cross or when we get corners why not be more direct? Watched the snatch of our Tuesday opponents on the Beeb last night and it confirmed what I said about them when they humped Killie 5-1 earlier in the year. All they do is hit long balls and run after them. I think Archie took fright with that result and that was why they managed to beat us in the cup the following week - remember we set up so defensively? I don't think it is the way we are going to beat them. Why not trust our defence and go for the jugular with the aforementioned three running at them and big Pogba taking the hits? Would love to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) Statistically, we are strong defensively. We have the meanest goals against figure in the league outside the top 3. I don't get to every game, but we owe that in large part to Cerny who has been tremendous and I think an improvement on Fox. We have at times looked fragile at the back, injuries and suspensions can't have helped. When I've seen him Thomas has looked consistently solid, however, he should perhaps be a little quicker with his distribution. This, was clearly evident on saturday when we saw Amoo breaking at pace after a corner or sustained pressure in our box an Tam held the ball till his area was clear. I was watching this again at the weekend - and it kinda confirmed my belief that while ATS and O'donnell were great assets and contributed much to our attacking capabilities, I always thought their final ball into the box left alot to be desired and their loss to the team was perhaps overrated by some. Their partnership lasted only until the new year of that first season up, during which time we only scored about 15 goals and won only three games. I'm not at all saying "those two were crap". They were not, but they flourished in the championship year and only had half a season in the top flight where we have remained despite their partnership ending. From the clip I think I counted about 5 assists or crosses from outside the box from either flank that led directly to a strike on goal, and some of them, probably the best of them, were delivered by Higgy. In short, I think is has been unfair to promote Pogba as a big target man who should be good in the air and hold the ball up regardless of the quality of service to him and supporting attacking mid-field. I think we do need width in our play but I think perhaps we put too much emphasis on it. ATS, O'donnel and McMillan were good players who had a certain style and attacking attitude. Higgy provided a bit of class at times. However, I think Booth, Miller and Dumbaya are adequate replacements. I watched Miller bust a gut running all of 60-70 yards to support Amoo ( who improves, and looks more confident with just about every game I see, in contrast to Higgy who last year seemed at times to be on the downward slope of that mountain) down the right more than once and I think he sometimes doesn't get the praise he deserves for trying to push forward. I'd say that with the points cushion we have over DU, tomorrow night we should go for it. They will be out and out going for a win. They will leave gaps at the back. We should exploit that with two up front. Dools and Pogba with Mathias holding a more central role and Dools ghosting about trying to be invisible and generally making a nuisence of himself. An attacking midfielder ( Edwards, Lawless or Nesbitt) given a free role ( drifting between the centre and the left wing) and Amoo wide right. With two defensive midfielders (Welsh, Osman, Fraser) I think our defence has proved it's capable of holding out. It's be good to see Dumbaya back, but like i said I think Miller is more than adequate and I'd be willing to trust the left flank to Booth alone, he still looks super fit to me, and capable. But hey.... In Archie I still trust..... ETA .... a 4-2-2-2 formation of sorts... Edited April 4, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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